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FREESTYLE LIBRE ON SALE!!!!

Discussion in 'Blood Glucose Monitoring' started by Emmotha, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. logindetails

    logindetails Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    @rubold The major cost savings would come in the future from the NHS having to treat less cases of diabetic complications due to Libre users having better control over their blood sugars.
    The cost of treating diabetic complications brought on by poor blood sugar control is around 3 to 4 times the cost of prescribing diabetes medication.
    The powers that be need to recognise this and make the Libre available on the NHS as soon as possible, unfortunately I think they work under the 'never mind if it'll save me £10 tomorrow it's going to cost me £5 today' philosophy.

    However I do think that the petition is badly worded - it sounds like we are asking for it just to save our fingers from a bit of pricking.
     
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  2. hale710

    hale710 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Had my Libre in for 11 days, overall was pretty pleased with seeing the patterns.

    As of 1pm it is no longer scanning. The only error I get is that it has timed out and not found the sensor. Since abbott are not open at the weekend I can't call them.

    Has anyone else had this? Did you manage to resolve it?
     
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  3. igmr

    igmr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yep. The NHS has always been about stitch and patch, mend and make do, never about preventative.

    With just 2 weeks of libre results I have managed to massively improve mu control by changing when I inject and reducing the dosage - I've got rid of the spikes, troughs and rebounds. I've wonderfully got rid of the overnight hypos. But how do I convince a DSN who will only look / understand BG values hand written into a standard format insulin log?
     
  4. mummy3

    mummy3 Type 1 · Member

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    it dos'nt i said it, its my view x
     
  5. Thomson54

    Thomson54 Type 1 · Member

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    No I haven't managed to work out a way to resolve this, Just have to ring them when they are open and request replacement, don't expect this to be anytime soon.
     
  6. igmr

    igmr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, sorry, I though you were replying to my comment about the content of the petition.

    The libre scan data is a map of where your glucose levels have been. You need a BG test to tell you where they are right now and a crystal ball to figure out where they are going. I take the predictive nature of the arrows with a large pinch of salt, I've seen then going the opposite way to blood tests (which are more immediate)a number times. Not at all a fault, simply a consequence of the two technologies that you need to be aware of.

    The data that it collects is invaluable - I have learnt more about my diabetes and how insulin works in me than ever before - but I still need to finger prick several times a day for bolus calculations and driving. Because of this I am not convinced that I will need a sensor 24/7 every day of my life.If can recover from this scanning OCD that I've acquired I'll probably use it just a few weeks a year when things go pear shaped (I suspect my wallet will forcibly break the habit soon after Christmas).

    My view.


    .
     
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  7. searley

    searley Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    When I called them they said they had a libre support line open 27/7 is there another phone number in the manual that's different to the one on the website?
     
  8. LucySW

    LucySW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Igmr, what does that mean, please?
     
  9. mummy3

    mummy3 Type 1 · Member

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    i phoned them, Libre Helpline 0500467466 hope this is a different number x
     
  10. searley

    searley Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    As described several times in this thread.. The fluid under the skin gives readings slower than blood from the fingers

    The fluid under the skin can be 20minutes behind fingers tests

    This is why fingers blood tests are still required in certain circumstances
     
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  11. igmr

    igmr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    A gross oversimplification. . Directly from Abbots site

    "A finger prick test using a blood glucose meter is required during times of rapidly changing glucose levels when interstitial fluid glucose levels may not accurately reflect blood glucose". or, put more simply, interstitial values are delayed (historic) compared to BG tests.

    my understanding - which could be wrong - is that interstitial fluid glucose levels lag behind blood glucose levels by several minutes. So what the scan gives you is roughly where your blood glucose levels were 15/20 minutes previously. I checked the exported file data. The sensor logs a reading every 15 minutes and these seem to better correlate to blood glucose readings taken 20 to 30 minutes earlier than those taken at the same time - with around 1mmol difference.

    The implications, again, if I am right, is that when your glucose levels increase BG values will seemingly race away from scan (interstitial) values. Then your BG will peak, start to drop and can actually go lower than your scan values. Draw two identical bell curves, one starting 30 mninutes after the other and you will see exactly what I mean.

    Okay, this is theory, I doubt Abbott will ever confirm it. but it fits everything I have seen from the Libre so far, it matches wjhat the export data shows and it matches exactly what the scans v bg test show. With my first sensor the sensor value was always about 1mmol lower 20 minutes later than the bg value. Which is why Abbott tell you to finger prick when you have rapid changes happening. I'm in the process of checking my second sensor but its coming out similar

    Consequently - whether for the right reasons or not - I trust and have very successfully changed my insulin regime using the scan charts - they are accurate - but I will never take a scan value as a current BG value.. I trust and use the BG values to calculate bolus and for driving records. There are two entirely different glucose measuring systems on the same meter; one of which is tells you where you are NOW the other gives you a historical map of where your glucose was / has been,

    And, oh boy is that historical map useful for sorting your insulin timing and dosage out. I've been able to extensively modify my Levemir from it and I'm now starting to time and adjust my novorapid to match the food I eat.




    .
     
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  12. hale710

    hale710 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    That's a french phone number though. Would be expensive from a mobile! I'm away for the weekend
     
  13. hale710

    hale710 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It's actually the same number as on their website anyway
     
  14. Emmotha

    Emmotha Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hello.

    I've been feeling a bit ill today after high blood sugars last night :-( so I've stayed in and sewed myself a prototype carry case which I can attach to my work lanyard as I often don't have pockets.
    Think it should work quite well, but I'll redo it in black.

    If you want the pattern let me know, it's pretty easy to make :) image.jpg
     
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  15. darrenh04

    darrenh04 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Anyone else find the libre is preventing a good nights sleep? :(

    By that I mean, as the sensor only holds 8 hours of data, if I wake up in the middle of the night or early in the morning I feel a need to scan so I don't get a gap in my data. Nothing worse than a good sleep in only to find an hour of data missing. :)

    If only the 8 hours could be 10. Especially as the night readings have been quite revealing for lots of us. I seem to always have a dip in my levels at about 3am.
     
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  16. smidge

    smidge LADA · Well-Known Member

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    @hale710 - I think the sensor has died and needs replacing. A number of people on this thread and elsewhere have had a similar issue. My first sensor failed to scan a couple of times after I unplugged it from the computer. It told me to try again in 10 minutes. I tried 10 minutes later and it was fine. I am more careful to quiesce the scanner now before removing it from the computer. It is a USB device after all. So, if it hasn't recovered after 10 minutes it's probably dead.

    To those unsure about buying this system, it certainly has pros and cons. I love the fact that I can see the pattern of my BG over a period of time - it makes a huge difference to understanding how your body is affected by food and insulin, but more than anything, just what is happening in between those events - this is an insight you could never get from a BG meter. I'm so glad I bought it - it's been a revelation to me.

    On the other hand, it is temperamental - some might say downright flaky. The sensors are hit and miss - a number of us have had inaccurate readings - and I don't just mean the 10 minute time lag between IF and BG; neither do I mean the 20% tolerance of error on all BG meters; I actually had a 2.9 hypo reported on two BG meters (including the Libre in-built meter) while the Libre scanner was reading in the high 5s and showing a horizontal arrow (BG changing less than 0.1mmol per minute). This was clearly a fault. Others have had sensors that have died after a few days. These faults make the system unreliable as a sole means of monitoring - but still very useful as an additional means and I have now managed to reduce my BG testing to 4 per day. My second sensor has been much better - often within 0.5 mmol of my BG meter which is perfectly acceptable - but it has still had the odd anomaly like reading 2mmol out a couple of hours ago.

    The truth of the matter is that this has come to market too early - it is not fully tested and it shows. Basically, the early adopters are completing the testing at our own expense. However, if I'd known that I would still have bought it - I'm finding it invaluable and for me it's worth the expense. Others will need to judge for themselves whether they want to spend their money on what is basically a beta release - I am sure it will improve over the coming year and the early sensor bugs (and software bugs of which there are several) will be ironed out. I don't think there is any way the NHS would or should fund these until they prove to be consistently reliable. DVLA will certainly not allow them to be used as BG test replacements and people need to bear this in mind if using them as it would invalidate their insurance which would mean driving illegally as an uninsured driver.

    Abbotts themselves have been very good. Their customer support staff are doing their best to support users and are largely doing very well although I have had at least one exasperating contact with them. They are replacing sensors which are suspect and are not really making you prove it too much. When I rang them with a hypo that the Libre had failed to detect, they were very concerned, told me to remove the sensor immediately and use a new one and even rang me later to make sure I was OK. A replacement sensor took 2 weeks to arrive, but they rang to apologise - they have had a system fault and haven't been able to send the replacement sensors out automatically so they have been processing replacements manually. They have also had to deal with the correction and refunds of the VAT and delivery charge which was erroneously taken on the first evening the Libre went on sale and they have been deluged with phone calls, emails and contact forms driven by the failure demand of all these issues. All of which points to a product that has come to market before it is really ready and the support function struggling as a result.

    So, if you're interested in the Libre it is a personal choice whether to buy it in its current state of wait 6 months and look at it again then. I would say it is a good year to 18 months from the NHS being seriously interested.

    Smidge
     
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  17. mummy3

    mummy3 Type 1 · Member

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    when i phoned friday lady on phone gave me this number as i was asking about differences in libre to bg results and said this is the number you phone, guess i wont be phoning that then, i phoned number on web site and they put me through to this x
     
  18. Emmotha

    Emmotha Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    image.jpg
    I think I've been lucky with sensor #2. It's settled much quicker than #1.

    Ask abbott to send u test strips too if u don't currently get them on prescription so that u can check the accuracy
     
  19. robert72

    robert72 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Glad to say that my second sensor has stopped being so jittery, but it took 2 and a half days to settle down.

    Hope it stays good now like the first one.

    Libre-Sensor-2.jpg
     
  20. hale710

    hale710 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @smidge I guess I'll remove it then! I haven't had it plugged to a pc for about 72 hours so don't think it's related to that. Will take it out and keep it to send to abbott when they inevitably ask!
     
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