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[xyzzy]

Just because an article or video doesn't say what a person wants to hear doesn't make it wrong, as I said earlier there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to controlling your diabetes.......it is up to the individual to decide which is the best dietary path to choose.

No need to shout at the good lady Dawn she has every right to have her opinion. :thumbdown:

 

[dawnmc]

Thankyou xy.
I have been testing, I'm going through a bad patch at the moment, not coping, very teary, very frustrated. Low carb isn't working for me, neither is starchy carbs, can't lose weight, can't get my BS down.
Also my typing has gone to pot. Actually its not my typing, I'm constantly having to delete and correct it. Nit sure if its my eyes, see nit instead of not.
No help from the quacks at all.

 

[phoenix]

When I receive an email video from DCUK that states the case for a lchf diet or a Mediterranean diet and making it clear that in many countries these are an equally valid alternatives to treat diet only T2's as the official "starchy carb" view then I will begin to believe things are changing. Saying starchy carb advise is controversial is by no means the same as actively and equally promoting an alternative

If you look on youtube , there are over 160 videos from DCUK including a low carb one, one on the Newcastle diet, one on low carb lunches and another on low carb snacks.
I don't know how many have been on the newsletter as I never read it but they are available. (inevitably some are pre your diagnosis)
perhaps they could do a video on the med diet or the glycemic index or indeed a vegan high fibre diet, all of which can claim successful followers but there are also other subjects that are equally important.
Actually, it would be good if perhaps we had a video a day on the forum. There are some there on important subjects such as nephropathy and retinlpathy which are very important to some newcomers. Unfortunately not all people are diagnosed at an early stage.

 

[xyzzy]

Dawn if nothing seems to be working then you really do need to go see the gp. Have you got a husband or partner you can go with to back you up? There are also patient advocacy groups who can help you get things sorted. It sounds like you need some tests done to get to the bottom of why you can't get your BG's under control. If your gp is useless you need to ask to see a consultant or at least go see a different gp at the practice. It's hard but you mustn't let them fob you off.

 

[phoenix]

Dawn, I agree with Xyyzz on this one. Diet alone, of any sort ,is not necessarily the answer for everyone. Diabetes comes in lots of shapes and forms.

 

[xyzzy]

@Phoenix.

The issue as I am led to believe is DCUK will only officially advocate stuff that is in line with N.I.C.E guidelines so for example it would not officially advocate the ADA quarter plate current advice however you or I go onto interpret what that advice means. If I am wrong then I'm sure a mod or admin will correct me and I'm quite willing to retract my criticisms made in this thread. I take your point that there are many diets listed etc but my objection and I think Dawns still stands that they are all viewed as somehow secondary or lesser to the UK 50% carb diet because DCUK's official policy is to only advocate in line with N.I.C.E. I would assume DUK is also N.I.C.E compliant therefore as I said in my openning post when push comes to shove DCUK ends up officially advocating the same as DUK. You can believe that is a good thing or like me a bad thing but it doesn't alter the fact that both organisations end up officially advocating the same thing.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. Yes, T2 does come in all shapes and sizes. I'm one of those on max non-insulin treatment and still with a high'ish Hba1c hence diet for me is critical. Whilst it is true that diabetes causes and conditions vary greatly it appears that the majority but not all T2s do benefit from a lower carb diet. As I've said previously on the forum no one seems able to define 'starchy carbs' and I would be delighted if some one could? I think it means the fibrous fairly low-GI starches that exist BEFORE proecessing. If you look at the typical dietician list of starchy carbs it includes the usual suspects e.g. bread, pasta etc. These normally use highly processed white high-GI flour that the body quickly turns to glucose. As one very good definition of diabetes is ".....the inability of the body to process glucose properly..." then the importance of carbs becomes apparent. I do not personally recommend any branded popular diet or excessively low-carb diets; just keep the carbs low'ish and eat to the meter. So, I think there is great confusion with the word 'starchy' and I wish the NHS, DUK etc would use the term low-GI and recommend foods or websites that list suitable low-GI foods.

 

[smidge]

Hey everyone!

Maybe a sensible thing to do is to word it as " Type 1 has no pancreass function as it has ceased to function, therefore with carb counting and Insulin dosage required to right amount of carbs ( obviously not newly diagnosed diabetics) "Type 2 have some function of the pancreass and they may need to reduce the amount of their carb intake with meals" something on those lines possibly, it could be great help to all A shake up is definately needed. Best wishes RRB

It wouldn't help me! Quite the opposite in fact! I am LADA but officially there are only two Types of diabetes; 1 and 2, so I'm classified officially as Type 1. However, I actually have quite strong pancreas function some days and very little on others. I have to adjust my carb intake because matching large doses of insulin to high carb food is actually pretty dangerous for me if my pancreas decides to help me out! So, low-carb, low insulin doses is my best way of trying to maintain BG stability. I think it is unhelpful to give the message that Type 1s can simply eat normally and match with insulin - very many of us can't unfortunately. (And there are many other reasons why we shouldn't, but those are not relevant to this thread).

Smidge

 

[Robinredbreast]

Hey everyone!

Maybe a sensible thing to do is to word it as " Type 1 has no pancreass function as it has ceased to function, therefore with carb counting and Insulin dosage required to right amount of carbs ( obviously not newly diagnosed diabetics) "Type 2 have some function of the pancreass and they may need to reduce the amount of their carb intake with meals" something on those lines possibly, it could be great help to all A shake up is definately needed. Best wishes RRB

It wouldn't help me! Quite the opposite in fact! I am LADA but officially there are only two Types of diabetes; 1 and 2, so I'm classified officially as Type 1. However, I actually have quite strong pancreas function some days and very little on others. I have to adjust my carb intake because matching large doses of insulin to high carb food is actually pretty dangerous for me if my pancreas decides to help me out! So, low-carb, low insulin doses is my best way of trying to maintain BG stability. I think it is unhelpful to give the message that Type 1s can simply eat normally and match with insulin - very many of us can't unfortunately. (And there are many other reasons why we shouldn't, but those are not relevant to this thread).

Smidge

Hi Smidge type1, type2, Gestational and LADA( also known as type 1.5) All different and all with different needs. I would think that becasuse you are LADA, your insulin/diabeteic needs would differ from another LADA, as my Type1 needs/insulin regime would be different from another type1. It was only a quick suggestion (and not written in stone) along the lines that changes need to be made and as I said, a shake up is definately needed, for ALL diabetes types. I didn't say that type 1's can eat anything, I said that type 1 and carb counting helps with matching the right amount of carbs with the right amount of insulin, even some vegatables have some carbs and fruit, rice, pasta, wholemeal bread etc, as long as not used inlarge amounts, all healthy and I incorporate them into my dietry needs. Best wishes RRB

 

[xyzzy]

As I've said previously on the forum no one seems able to define 'starchy carbs' and I would be delighted if some one could?

Not exactly what you asked but the amount of carbohydrate and starch are defined in the FSA (Food Standards Agency) guidelines that we are all meant to follow. Published over 20 years ago they can be seen here. http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/nutguideuk.pdf. The guidelines clearly state total carbohydrates should be 50% of which "Intrinsic and milk sugars and starch should account for 39%" It even has a picture of the much derided eatwell plate on page 2.



The eatwell plate image I've uploaded comes from the NHS site http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/eatwell-plate.aspx.



The point is to emphasise that by sticking to 20 year UK guidelines then DCUK misses the opportunity to officially give the same weight to advances in care that aren't in anyway particularly radical such as the ADA's quarter starchy carbs message rather than half starchy carbs. For example this kind of official ADA statement

For the Plate Method
About ¼ of your plate should come from starchy foods.

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitnes ... ables.html

 

[Osidge]

A couple of points. The 50% carb diet could, in fact, be low carb. It depends how much you are eating overall! There is an assumption that 50% means a large amount of carbs but it needn't be so. The other issue is the reference to strong diabetes medication killing beta cells - or, indeed, the whole pancreas!! I am not sure what is meant by strong medication as opposed to different or new medication. The following article might help in the understanding of beta cells and the protective effects of some newer medications: http://www.betacellsindiabetes.org/betacell-science

Regards

Doug

 

[borofergie]

If you eat 50% of your diet as carbohydrate then more than half of the food on your plate will be carb (unless you eat zero fat).

 

[Osidge]

If your portions are small then at 50% carbs you could still have a low carb diet. The percentage of any food group eaten will be low, medium or high depending on the size of the overall meal

 

[Anonymous]

Eh? If I am low carbing (say at a moderate 20g per meal) and that represents 50% of my plate, unless those carbs are coming from something like green veg then I'm no going to be eating very much am I ? Obviously anyone can low carb using a starvation diet but for it to be sustainable you have to replace the carb with something else, i.e. fat and protein.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Eh? If I am low carbing (say at a moderate 20g per meal) and that represents 50% of my plate, unless those carbs are coming from something like green veg then I'm no going to be eating very much am I ? Obviously anyone can low carb using a starvation diet but for it to be sustainable you have to replace the carb with something else, i.e. fat and protein.

And if someone like Grazer is 'low carbing (say at a moderate 150g per meal)' would you say that is not sustainable?

You seem to put everything in context to yourself Swimmer, there are as many diabetic diets as there are diabetics.

 

[smidge]

Hey all!

This is a useful discussion, but let's try not to get personal.

Ta

Smidge

 

[phoenix]

The ADA plate mentioned by XYZZY mentions is a long standing tool (sometimes called the Idaho Plate, though it was originally designed by Swedish dieititians!) It also includes some dairy and a piece of fruit or small bread roll,

Add an 8 oz glass of non-fat or low-fat milk. If you don’t drink milk, you can add another small serving of carb such as a 6 oz. container of light yogurt or a small roll.
And a piece of fruit or a 1/2 cup fruit salad and you have your meal planned. Examples are fresh, frozen, or canned in juice or frozen in light syrup or fresh fruit.

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitnes ... our-plate/
.
Using a 9inch plate ( and no more than 1inch thickness of food), this method is designed to give 1200- 1400 calories a day of which 45 -50 grams per meal are carbs . It includes some starchy carbs/some carbs from fruit, veg and dairy + some protein and fat ie it's balanced
This means that the percentage from carbs , using that method,is from 39%-50%
http://www.nwprimarycare.com/pthandouts/Idaho.pdf



I don't think the healthy eating plate is a good visual aid but thats just me. It is not actually supposed to represent what you have on your plate at each meal and they used weight to calculate the sizes of the segments.
(note BOGH means balance of good health which was the original name of the plate, later revamped as the healthy eating plate)

Data on commonly consumed portion weights of individual foods were obtained from MAFF (1993)
and Gregory et al. (1990) and converted to amounts that should be consumed on a weekly
basis, with some adjustments such as the removal of alcohol and miscellaneous foods. In
addition, the weight of fluids, milk and fruit juice, were halved before being added to the
weights of the rest of the foods in the milk and dairy, and fruit and vegetable groups
respectively. The reason for this was that these fluids contain a high proportion of water and
are used in large quantities in the diet. The weight of all foods was then totalled. The
relative proportions (segment size) of food to be consumed from each food group were then
calculated from these weights. As a percentage of the total for this, the five food groups
were comprised as follows: bread, other cereals and potatoes (34%), fruit and vegetables
(33%), meat, fish and alternatives (15%), milk and dairy foods (12%) and fatty and sugary
foods (7%) (Gatenby et al., 1995). The 101% total is due to rounding up.
The BOGH model showed the balance of foods we should try to eat for a healthy diet.
Whilst aiming to achieve this balance every day could be a practical approach, it was not
considered necessary to achieve it at every meal and could instead be achieved over the
period of perhaps a week. The key message was that it is the balance of foods in the diet as
a whole that is important to achieve a healthy diet
Other than recommending consumption of at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
and 2 portions of fish, one of which should be oily (in the accompanying text), no guidance 9
was given with the BOGH on numbers of servings. Instead, the emphasis was on proportion
(size of segments) given that everyone has different needs that are difficult to quantify

http://lib.haifa.ac.il/mesila/nutrition ... rt0708.pdf

 

[catherinecherub]

Just got my newsletter from this site. And there is a video of the diet recommendations, yep starchy carbs with every meal.
What is going on! They say that the diet we should be on is what they advise for a healthy diet for everyone. If thats the case the UK is going to be really really overloaded with diabetics.
I ate a healthy diet before I got diabetes.
I've said this before but if we eat what we ate before and got diabetic how is what they advise going to lower our BS.

If you don't like what you see then take it up with the Editorial Team. They do state that they rely on reputable sources of medical evidence.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/contributors/index.html

 

[catherinecherub]

We could go round in circles with this one. Until everyone with Type2 is either issued with a meter or invests in one, the best decision you will ever make health wise, then any advice cannot be guaranteed for the individual. You hear it all the time here, eat to your meter. There are members here on various amounts of carbs who have good control so no one size is going to fit all whether it comes from medical sources or individuals with diabetes.
Appetites also vary and that is another problem. A sedentary office worker who does little or no exercise will not need as much as a person in the same profession who exercises. A person with mobility problems cannot be compared with an able bodied person. Nobody can prescribe a diet for anyone else, even with the best intentions, unless they know enough about that person.
In an ideal world we would all be issued with meters and some individual advice.

 

[borofergie]

Using a 9inch plate ( and no more than 1inch thickness of food), this method is designed to give 1200- 1400 calories a day of which 45 -50 grams per meal are carbs . It includes some starchy carbs/some carbs from fruit, veg and dairy + some protein and fat ie it's balanced

And that's the point. 1200 to 1400 kcal per day is about right for a 4ft, 6.5st woman.

For most other people it would represent a large calorific deficit. You could manage it as part of an extreme weight-loss diet, but it isn't a sustainable way of dealing with diabetes for most people.

My own daily calorific needs are >3000kcal so we'd be talking about 300g or more of carbs.