Going It Alone

[kitedoc]

Hi @lindisfel and others,
I agree with @Brunneria, there are pluses and minuses, risks and benefits.
Any alteration in diet, treatment, use of supplements etc carry benefits and risks.
It would appear that the change in potassium in the body is one of the scary risks. But how to persuade a HCP to act on risk
if they are unfamiliar with a particular diet, treatment etc? ? A mention of death occurring with changing diet could either result in having a request to check your levels met OR an order to NOT try the diet and a refusal to check your blood.
Of course you have the right to see another doctor.
Also Dr Google can be helpful but does not tell me how well researched or not a particular article is or necessarily what the drawbacks are to a particular line of treatment.
If there is a reference which the HCP can read and evaluate about say, low carb diet and consequences, might that work?
And discussing how to go about a change, planning it out together could work. ( After all the best HCPs do that,
they sit down with you and work through how you can cope with say, exercise or a change in insulin)
The enemy is always time. That may be why spreading the seeking of advice over say, doctor ( low carb diet ? check potassium, kidneys, whatever), DSN, (look at how low carb may affect medication dosages etc) etc might work better.
Being human also means that we are curious. So we will still by nature try things out ( unless we feel straight-jacketed into not altering things one iota, not making any mistakes etc, which is a most unfortunate situation to be in).
Perhaps the obvious adages apply: Safety First. Buyer beware. One thing at a time. Look before you leap. Small steps first.
Do not count your chickens before they hatch. And...
Fortune might favour the bold, but long life favours the cautious.
The early bird might catch the worm, BUT the later one has time to find the better worm.

 

[MrsGruffy]

I seriously had a GP tell me this morning that if I go on insulin, it will make me lose weight.

 

[Guzzler]

Hi @lindisfel and others,
I agree with @Brunneria, there are pluses and minuses, risks and benefits.
Any alteration in diet, treatment, use of supplements etc carry benefits and risks.
It would appear that the change in potassium in the body is one of the scary risks. But how to persuade a HCP to act on risk
if they are unfamiliar with a particular diet, treatment etc? ? A mention of death occurring with changing diet could either result in having a request to check your levels met OR an order to NOT try the diet and a refusal to check your blood.
Of course you have the right to see another doctor.
Also Dr Google can be helpful but does not tell me how well researched or not a particular article is or necessarily what the drawbacks are to a particular line of treatment.
If there is a reference which the HCP can read and evaluate about say, low carb diet and consequences, might that work?
And discussing how to go about a change, planning it out together could work. ( After all the best HCPs do that,
they sit down with you and work through how you can cope with say, exercise or a change in insulin)
The enemy is always time. That may be why spreading the seeking of advice over say, doctor ( low carb diet ? check potassium, kidneys, whatever), DSN, (look at how low carb may affect medication dosages etc) etc might work better.
Being human also means that we are curious. So we will still by nature try things out ( unless we feel straight-jacketed into not altering things one iota, not making any mistakes etc, which is a most unfortunate situation to be in).
Perhaps the obvious adages apply: Safety First. Buyer beware. One thing at a time. Look before you leap. Small steps first.
Do not count your chickens before they hatch. And...
Fortune might favour the bold, but long life favours the cautious.
The early bird might catch the worm, BUT the later one has time to find the better worm.

If a single patient hadn't made the decision to go it alone then Drs. Jen and David Unwin would not have changed so many peoples lives for the better and saved the NHS a wodge of cash. David Unwin cares about his patients but even he admits that at one point he transferred all his T2 patients to a junior partner because he couldn't face them with this 'chronic, progressive disease' for which the outcomes were so poor.
Thanks to his caring nature and this single patient who took a leap of faith in her own judgement Dr. Unwin now says that his favourite patients are those with T2 because he can do his job and give them hope.

 

[zand]

I seriously had a GP tell me this morning that if I go on insulin, it will make me lose weight.

I gave you a 'funny' for this, but really it is so sad that a GP doesn't know what insulin does.

 

[zand]

If a single patient hadn't made the decision to go it alone then Drs. Jen and David Unwin would not have changed so many peoples lives for the better and saved the NHS a wodge of cash. David Unwin cares about his patients but even he admits that at one point he transferred all his T2 patients to a junior partner because he couldn't face them with this 'chronic, progressive disease' for which the outcomes were so poor.
Thanks to his caring nature and this single patient who took a leap of faith in her own judgement Dr. Unwin now says that his favourite patients are those with T2 because he can do his job and give them hope.

At my surgery I was that one patient and my GP wasn't interested in what I was doing even though my HbA1cs were the best out of 303 patients.

 

[ickihun]

I seriously had a GP tell me this morning that if I go on insulin, it will make me lose weight.

I lost weight. By having perfect bgs and no carb cravings. In good management there should be no weight increase. That is why you're given a nurse for a few weeks to guide you through.

No one I know (whose obese) adds as fast as they were without it. (type2s)

 

[kitedoc]

If a single patient hadn't made the decision to go it alone then Drs. Jen and David Unwin would not have changed so many peoples lives for the better and saved the NHS a wodge of cash. David Unwin cares about his patients but even he admits that at one point he transferred all his T2 patients to a junior partner because he couldn't face them with this 'chronic, progressive disease' for which the outcomes were so poor.
Thanks to his caring nature and this single patient who took a leap of faith in her own judgement Dr. Unwin now says that his favourite patients are those with T2 because he can do his job and give them hope.

And yes, there will be those situations. It takes determination and open minds.

 

[lindisfel]

I think I take from this that we have to be fully aware of our health situation and get the best advice/action to improve it if possible.

It needs education and the ability to appraise opposing views if it involves serious action that may damage our health.

It is not a level playing field, those with better incomes are in a far better position, I am afraid, in a one size fits all health service.
It is up to us as a pressure group to see health service funds in the UK are spent wisely.
I find it disturbs me that the less well able cannot look after themselves adequately but they are far better off than they were 100 years ago.
D.

 

[kitedoc]

I think I take from this that we have to be fully aware of our health situation and get the best advice/action to improve it if possible.

It needs education and the ability to appraise opposing views if it involves serious action that may damage our health.

It is not a level playing field, those with better incomes are in a far better position, I am afraid, in a one size fits all health service.
It is up to us as a pressure group to see health service funds in the UK are spent wisely.
I find it disturbs me that the less well able cannot look after themselves adequately but they are far better off than they were 100 years ago.
D.

Equity of access to health services is always an issue.
It reminds me of working around 1980s in Wagga a large country town in New South Wales, Australia. There was a district nurse who took on the role of diabetes educator. She arranged a meeting of poor T2D women (30) once a week, got them talking, supporting each other, running friendly competitions to lose some weight, alter their diet and showed sustained weight reduction and improved HBA1Cs in the group, certainly over the 2 years I was there. It was more effective and efficient compared to having to visit each in a clinic or at home. And freed up time for others who might need more time such as to learn able injections etc.

 

[first14808]

Equity of access to health services is always an issue.
It reminds me of working around 1980s in Wagga a large country town in New South Wales, Australia. There was a district nurse who took on the role of diabetes educator. She arranged a meeting of poor T2D women (30) once a week,

Poverty is also a huge issue. Developed countries are seeing increases in malnutrition conditions like rickets. That may be due to diet, lifestyle, or migration patterns. But it's easy for governments or nutrition advisors to say eat more fresh food, veg, fish etc, but that's just a lot more expensive than cracking a can for beans on toast. Especially if supermarkets charge a premium for healthier options. There's often a clear correlation between poverty and longevity though.

It's also an area where governments would seem able to intervene given control of agriculture policy via subsidy. Which leads to some oddities like this:-

http://www.tampabay.com/features/Wh...-1-39-billion-pound-cheese-surplus-_169598539

The United States has amassed its largest stockpile of cheese in the 100 years since regulators began keeping tabs, the result of booming domestic production of milk and consumers’ waning interest in the dairy beverage.

The 1.39 billion-pound stockpile, tallied by the Agriculture Department last week, represents a 6 percent increase over this time last year and a 16 percent increase since an earlier surplus prompted a federal cheese buy-up in 2016.

The US has been overproducing milk, which gets turned into cheese, then bought by USG to support US dairy farmers. At the same time, the retail price of cheese in the US is high, and AFAIK, the 'government cheese' programme where welfare recipients were given blocks of cheese ended a while ago.

And although the US is still a big cheese consumer, a lot of it is a cheese-like substance that may only have had a passing acquaintance with a cow. Which is also the cheap, mass-produced and least healthy. And there's also the perception issue that cheese is bad because fat, even though it's decent fat and decent cheese is also high in protein. Currently the US situation is made worse by trade wars, or just protectionism, ie EU tariffs to prevent that cheese ending up here.

So goverments could pull policy levers to subsidise healthier food, or encourage production of healthier crops. They could consider food stamps or welfare schemes, but those can be expensive to administer, so it's being left to charity and food banks.. Where often the food donated isn't the healthiest option.

But there are also other large poverty related diet challenges. So the UK has a lot of people living in B&Bs due to a shortage of affordable housing.. Which means cooking facilities may be limited to a kettle, hot plate or microwave if they're lucky.

 

[lindisfel]

I seriously had a GP tell me this morning that if I go on insulin, it will make me lose weight.

The GP peobably had too much carb for breakfast and as engineers used say, "got his knickers in a twist" or more impolitely "got it arsy tarsy!"

 

[kitedoc]

Poverty is also a huge issue. Developed countries are seeing increases in malnutrition conditions like rickets. That may be due to diet, lifestyle, or migration patterns. But it's easy for governments or nutrition advisors to say eat more fresh food, veg, fish etc, but that's just a lot more expensive than cracking a can for beans on toast. Especially if supermarkets charge a premium for healthier options. There's often a clear correlation between poverty and longevity though.

It's also an area where governments would seem able to intervene given control of agriculture policy via subsidy. Which leads to some oddities like this:-

http://www.tampabay.com/features/Wh...-1-39-billion-pound-cheese-surplus-_169598539


The US has been overproducing milk, which gets turned into cheese, then bought by USG to support US dairy farmers. At the same time, the retail price of cheese in the US is high, and AFAIK, the 'government cheese' programme where welfare recipients were given blocks of cheese ended a while ago.

And although the US is still a big cheese consumer, a lot of it is a cheese-like substance that may only have had a passing acquaintance with a cow. Which is also the cheap, mass-produced and least healthy. And there's also the perception issue that cheese is bad because fat, even though it's decent fat and decent cheese is also high in protein. Currently the US situation is made worse by trade wars, or just protectionism, ie EU tariffs to prevent that cheese ending up here.

So goverments could pull policy levers to subsidise healthier food, or encourage production of healthier crops. They could consider food stamps or welfare schemes, but those can be expensive to administer, so it's being left to charity and food banks.. Where often the food donated isn't the healthiest option.

But there are also other large poverty related diet challenges. So the UK has a lot of people living in B&Bs due to a shortage of affordable housing.. Which means cooking facilities may be limited to a kettle, hot plate or microwave if they're lucky.

Yes, it is truly tragic. Trump cannot exactly build his promised wall of cheese but could actually divert cheese, soybeans and other products of his trade catastrophes, real or anticipated, to feed the poor, the jailed illegal immigrants AND their children.
In UK, where are the churches, the people who might let some of the larger houses to help but also not let the Govt off the hook?..
in Australia, homeliness is up. Rents too dear because landlords are greedy and demand higher rents because of the competition for rentals. The Government is too chicken to legislate rental ceilings.( the typical politician - I am all right, mate, never mind anyone else. Infrastructure development is not keeping up with population growth (which happens to be mostly by immigration). Down go health indices. Get all polies to spend a week homeless in Oz, a week in a B&B in UK, or without health insurance in USA, rinse and repeat.

 

[lucylocket61]

In UK, where are the churches, the people who might let some of the larger houses to help but also not let the Govt off the hook?..

we have many thousands of people who are volunteering and/or donating to help the poor. The problem is too big to eradicate. And government policy, as you know, is not supportive of the poor and disabled and old etc. We do what we can as individuals.

 

[Tannith]

Do people who believe in not taking statins also believe in not taking medication for high blood pressure?

 

[kitedoc]

Do people who believe in not taking statins also believe in not taking medication for high blood pressure?

Hi @Tannith Not sure. The medications used are for very different conditions and the long term effects of high blood pressure (high BP) are well known and effects of reducing high BP by whatever means are also known see hbprca.com.au/high-blood-pressure/faqs/

 

[zand]

Do people who believe in not taking statins also believe in not taking medication for high blood pressure?

No of course not, they are 2 very separate issues. High BP is harmful. I take a medication for BP but would never take statins.

 

[Guzzler]

Do people who believe in not taking statins also believe in not taking medication for high blood pressure?

There's no comparison at all.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Do people who believe in not taking statins also believe in not taking medication for high blood pressure?

I know plenty of people who do not take BP medication even though they are diabetic as they do not have harmfully high blood pressure issues I know of no doctor that suggests that all diabetics take bp medication if it's not needed why then should they as they do recommend statins for all diabetics.

 

[Guzzler]

I know plenty of people who do not take BP medication even though they are diabetic as they do not have harmfully high blood pressure issues I know of no doctor that suggests that all diabetics take bp medication if it's not needed why then should they as they do recommend statins for all diabetics.

I know of no other drug that is aimed at whole populations. One may argue that fluoridation of the water supply in some parts of the U.K could compare but I have not heard of any arguments to suggest that this treatment is responsible for similar adverse affects on humans.

 

[JohnEGreen]

but I have not heard of any arguments to suggest that this treatment is responsible for similar adverse affects on humans.

I have and that is why I refuse to drink water from the tap. but this is not the place to go into that except to say fluoridated water raises blood sugar levels.