Good news and not so good...Fatty liver

[Juicyjan53]

I have type 2 recently diagnosed and I have gone to great lengths researching diet, lifestyle changes etc (mostly from these forums) and have felt fairly confident that all was well for me, and I had a handle on it all. I received a meter and strips from my GP without any trouble. I went to the dietitian expecting a bit of a battle but nope, that was fine too. Then I had a liver scan and it seems I have a fatty liver - this is obviously not so good. I've done some research on various websites and it is not uncommon in people with diabetes, although I'm not and never have been, obese. I'm on Metformin, 3 X 500 a day and trying low carb medium fat diet.

I wondered if anyone has had this and how they have dealt with it. Also if anyone has tried milk thistle for this condition.

Jan x

 

[zand]

Yes many T2's get a fatty liver, which in turn makes many of us (though not all) become fat. Yes I have tried milk thistle and it's helpful. The best thing though was following a low carb high fat diet. It's the carbs that cause fatty liver (also diet drinks ) not fats.

 

[Eurobuff]

I have type 2 recently diagnosed and I have gone to great lengths researching diet, lifestyle changes etc (mostly from these forums) and have felt fairly confident that all was well for me, and I had a handle on it all. I received a meter and strips from my GP without any trouble. I went to the dietitian expecting a bit of a battle but nope, that was fine too. Then I had a liver scan and it seems I have a fatty liver - this is obviously not so good. I've done some research on various websites and it is not uncommon in people with diabetes, although I'm not and never have been, obese. I'm on Metformin, 3 X 500 a day and trying low carb medium fat diet.

I wondered if anyone has had this and how they have dealt with it. Also if anyone has tried milk thistle for this condition.

Jan x

I went to the Professor Taylor talk where this was mentioned. His theory is that once a person goes over their personal fat threshold, they develop diabetes (type 2). When the liver is fatty it can't function, and diabetes develops. When people went on the 800 calorie Newcastle diet, the fat loss is is so sudden that the fat goes from the liver. I wasn't overweight at diagnosis either, nor have I ever been. I asked him what about cases like me. He said in his opinion a person would need to lose 15% of their weight at diagnosis. I am on low carb diet and the highest my BG has been is 8.1 1 hour after eating. My hba1c latest results were 5.1%. Although I've never tried it,mi would suspect that if I ate something really sugary my BG would go out of control.

 

[Chelepoo]

Hi I was the same enlarged heart fatty liver type 2 from june this year I have lost 5st in weight heart and liver ok now I walk 2 miles per day and watch the carbs best of luck x

 

[zand]

Professor Taylor's theory of 15% is just a theory. I have lost more than 15% and still have T2 and fatty liver (though it's much improved)

 

[Lamont D]

I had a non alcoholic fatty liver.

Since starting a very low carb diet, this has reversed and I have a normal non fatty liver.
This along with all my other symptoms have disappeared. My Vital signs are in normal range and it's the fittest I've been in years!

 

[Juicyjan53]

Thanks for responses, zand, eurobuff and Chelepoo.
I've lost about ten pounds thus far, so it seems I have a way to go to lose 15% body weight. My bmi is 24. I dance for an hour four times a week. I think I'm going to have to be a bit stricter with myself with both diet and exercise. I think I may give milk thistle a go.
Well done Chelepoo for your fantastic weight loss. X

 

[Eurobuff]

Professor Taylor's theory of 15% is just a theory. I have lost more than 15% and still have T2 and fatty liver (though it's much improved)

Yes, that's what I said a theory. I haven't lost 15%, but almost, started off at 62kgs, last weigh in was 52kgs. So 0.3kgs short. I didn't lose the weight quickly though, so not sure if that is the reason? In my case I was taking a tablet that is linked to increasing blood sugar/diabetes. I found out after the event I should've been monitored every 3 months, but wasn't. I'm sure I read somewhere that in cases like that the theory doesn't work anyway,

 

[Juicyjan53]

Nosher, your results are heartening and I hope to be able to get similar results. Well done you x

 

[Lamont D]

Nosher, your results are heartening and I hope to be able to get similar results. Well done you x

By the way, I've lost just over five stones over that two year period!
If I can do it!!!!!!

 

[zand]

Yes, that's what I said a theory. I haven't lost 15%, but almost, started off at 62kgs, last weigh in was 52kgs. So 0.3kgs short. I didn't lose the weight quickly though, so not sure if that is the reason? In my case I was taking a tablet that is linked to increasing blood sugar/diabetes. I found out after the event I should've been monitored every 3 months, but wasn't. I'm sure I read somewhere that in cases like that the theory doesn't work anyway,

I know you stated it was a theory. I wasn't having a go at you, merely pointing out that it wouldn't necessarily be the case for everyone. It's very disappointing when you try to follow something like the Newcastle Diet and it doesn't work for you. I don't believe there is a magic figure of % weight loss that works for everyone.

 

[Juicyjan53]

By the way, I've lost just over five stones over that two year period!
If I can do it!!!!!!

Bloomin' marvellous Nosher... X

 

[AndBreathe]

Yes, that's what I said a theory. I haven't lost 15%, but almost, started off at 62kgs, last weigh in was 52kgs. So 0.3kgs short. I didn't lose the weight quickly though, so not sure if that is the reason? In my case I was taking a tablet that is linked to increasing blood sugar/diabetes. I found out after the event I should've been monitored every 3 months, but wasn't. I'm sure I read somewhere that in cases like that the theory doesn't work anyway,

Professor Taylor states it is the weight loss, not the rapidity or method that makes the difference. He also states that whilst he uses 15% as a guide, it is purely that. Each individual has their own personal fat threshold, which is unknown, until breeches in either direction.

I have had an email dialogue with Professor Taylor on this.

I don't know whether you have read Richard Doughty's story. He lost a very modest amount of weight to achieve a reversal. If you haven't, his story is easily found by consulting Dr Google.

 

[AndBreathe]

re: 15% - if you are 30%+ over your ideal body weight clearly losing 15% will not be effective. The 15% is a min threshold to aim for.

I would challenge that definite statement, as there are folks for whom the Newcastle system has worked, without them getting skinny or even very slim. Richard Doughty was already slim, and his required loss was extremely modest, indeed achieving his objective on only 11 days on the diet.

Whilst I accept that this is an extreme case, the thing about the sort of statement you make is there are almost always exceptions.

One of our posters here, @Pipp , is an ND success story, but I'll leave her to make whatever disclosures she sees fit on here. Others are @paulins , and @Andrew Colvin who used a low cal, real food (no shakes or meal replacements) approach to achieve the same objective.

The tricky thing about the personal fat threshold is it is exactly that. I have no idea at what point I breeched it up or down, so am committed to remaining very slim for as long as I can as I feel the health benefits of not carrying any excess baggage outweigh the transitory satisfaction from carb-fest after carb-fest.

Good luck with your journey. It's not an easy fix, with a few ups and downs along the way, but for some people it can be done. For those with other issues, or more damage to their physiological responses it may not be possible to turn back the clock.

Sadly, in this life there still remain few certainties.

 

[andcol]

What I'd like to know is 3 days in I spent a night shivering in bed, yet when I got out of bed I was warmer. Went to toilet 3 times in night. Don't feel at all hungry this morning. Slightly heavy headed / headachey - which I never get. I'm guessing this is just my body adapting as it's used up the last of my sugar reserves and has to flip to using fat for energy - a bit like the wall in a marathon.

Is this consistent with other people's experiences of very low carb diets?

Yes that is totally consistent when I was starting low calorie. The weeing at night may be to do with protein being broken down to glucose. How much protein are you getting per day?

 

[Daibell]

I went to the Professor Taylor talk where this was mentioned. His theory is that once a person goes over their personal fat threshold, they develop diabetes (type 2). When the liver is fatty it can't function, and diabetes develops. When people went on the 800 calorie Newcastle diet, the fat loss is is so sudden that the fat goes from the liver. I wasn't overweight at diagnosis either, nor have I ever been. I asked him what about cases like me. He said in his opinion a person would need to lose 15% of their weight at diagnosis. I am on low carb diet and the highest my BG has been is 8.1 1 hour after eating. My hba1c latest results were 5.1%. Although I've never tried it,mi would suspect that if I ate something really sugary my BG would go out of control.

I think Prof Taylor is over-concerned with the liver. My understanding is that with excess carbs, the liver stores fat around the body and not just the liver. It's the fat stored in the muscles which results in insulin resistance and not particularly the liver. I think he needs to look at the research of others?

 

[zand]

I think Prof Taylor is over-concerned with the liver. My understanding is that with excess carbs, the liver stores fat around the body and not just the liver. It's the fat stored in the muscles which results in insulin resistance and not particularly the liver. I think he needs to look at the research of others?

I understand your point about insulin resistance and the muscles but this doesn't explain how some people such as the OP have a fatty liver and become T2 whilst still slim. Not all slim T2's end up being re-diagnosed as LADA.

 

[lindisfel]

Only found out yesterday Fructose is thought to cause fatty liver disease. See links I put on the Reactive Hypoglyceamic section today, I have a fatty liver and a bmi of 23.5.

BTW some with poor insulin resistance produce fructose from other carbs.
regards
D.

I have type 2 recently diagnosed and I have gone to great lengths researching diet, lifestyle changes etc (mostly from these forums) and have felt fairly confident that all was well for me, and I had a handle on it all. I received a meter and strips from my GP without any trouble. I went to the dietitian expecting a bit of a battle but nope, that was fine too. Then I had a liver scan and it seems I have a fatty liver - this is obviously not so good. I've done some research on various websites and it is not uncommon in people with diabetes, although I'm not and never have been, obese. I'm on Metformin, 3 X 500 a day and trying low carb medium fat diet.

I wondered if anyone has had this and how they have dealt with it. Also if anyone has tried milk thistle for this condition.

Jan x

 

[Juicyjan53]

Well, that's stirred up plenty of interesting comments. In my research I was aware of some advice that appeared to be unclear. I did see something that suggested that having had your gall bladder removed may have a contributing effect to NAFLD, mine was removed about 20 years ago.

 

[bulkbiker]

I have type 2 recently diagnosed and I have gone to great lengths researching diet, lifestyle changes etc (mostly from these forums) and have felt fairly confident that all was well for me, and I had a handle on it all. I received a meter and strips from my GP without any trouble. I went to the dietitian expecting a bit of a battle but nope, that was fine too. Then I had a liver scan and it seems I have a fatty liver - this is obviously not so good. I've done some research on various websites and it is not uncommon in people with diabetes, although I'm not and never have been, obese. I'm on Metformin, 3 X 500 a day and trying low carb medium fat diet.

I wondered if anyone has had this and how they have dealt with it. Also if anyone has tried milk thistle for this condition.

Jan x

Hi Juicyjan
What kind of liver scan did you have? I'm asking my doc for a dexascan next week to see if he can confirm that's what is causing my pancreatic misfunction. Watching Dr Jason Fung's lectures he believes that fat around the liver and pancreas is the root cause of many of our insulin problems.