1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Government Better Health Campaign is now active

Discussion in 'Weight Loss and Dieting' started by Oldvatr, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,631
    Likes Received:
    11,417
    Trophy Points:
    298
    When the aim is to "reduce obesity" then you are hardly a prime candidate for any changes nor the target audience for the campaign.

    "Eat less, move more" is a non successful strategy for reducing obesity as it does not address root causes.
    Suggesting a reduction in carbohydrate consumption for the obese would likely have a far greater impact and be more successful.
    Indeed even pre surgery (which sadly seems to be the preferred option for weight loss these days) ketosis is used to shrink the liver. Maybe a ketogenic diet for many would reduce the "need" for the surgery but oddly the surgeons don't appear to like this option ... can't think why.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,890
    Likes Received:
    1,829
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I am a strong advocate of doing what works for you as an individual but the message being put out right now is exactly the same as the previous decades. It clearly has not worked. @In Response, I am similar to you and I count myself lucky in many ways because I know that if I put a few pounds on it is easy for me to lose them and I am normally slim. It sounds like a simple solution, 'eat less, move more' but in and of itself it does not work for many, many people. There are all sorts of issues a person may have that hampers this simplistic approach whether a mental blockage or physiology. If people are told 'you need to go on a diet', all they think about are the yummy things they will have to cut out and it becomes too much. I really do think that the govt should change its advice and try something new. I'm not saying they should say 'eat cheese and meat' in abundance but they could certainly explain how a lower carb diet works and cut out the bread/pasta/rice mantra. Everybody knows that if you are eating cakes/sweets/puddings and all the obvious 'rubbish' your health will suffer so they give that up and then replace it with bread/pasta/rice having been told this is the holy grail of food. I get that the latter is better nutritionally but it is barely any better when it comes to general health. I do not understand why the govt think it will work this time?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. porl69

    porl69 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    4,081
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Unfortunately to be able to eat healthily is an expensive hobby and those people on the "bread line" just cant afford to not eat the super processed food. I was in Asda (other supermarkets are available) on the weekend and a packet of "healthy" apples were £1.20 whereas 2 packets of Asdas own choc chip cookies were 20p. I know that's not the best example but healthy eating is not cheap. I think the Govt needs to be looking at that??
     
  4. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    3,183
    Trophy Points:
    198
  5. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    3,183
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I am a Low Carber myself, so, yes, I am disappointed that the 'healthy' food message is the CICO Low fat Eatwell based diet that has been peddled since the 1980's and which many of us here find is unhelpful in our battle with Diabetes and other metabolic disorders. I am surprised that they actually named commercial diet plans in their recommendations. They should be educating and supporting the teaching of nutrition. I would have been happier if they had announced that they wanted to bring back Domestic Science as a curriculum subject in schools,

    But I see some positives. Firstly, the move to ban junk food advertising in the media. Second, the removal of sweets and snacks from the checkout counter area. Third, support for bike riding and gym use, but not sure GP prescriptions will do it. Again more education support that explains how many miles per sugar lump you need to run / walk, like they did for the sugar tax (infographics to the fore!!!!)

    There is also a glimmer in they are starting to talk about reducing processed foods and snacks, implying that we should go back to home prepared food again. But without the teaching backup that will not work out,

    I am minded that the advice given out is a one size fits all solution, intended for all. Here on this forum, we wear blinkers when interacting, in that we have a vested interest that the diet does more than just lose weight and blubber. It is also intended to help us maintain control of our wayward metabolisms. To this end we have tools and monitoring both by GP oversight and home meters that allow us to see within tens of minutes exactly what effect a meal has on our bodies. So we can adjust our intake accordingly. But this is not what the rest of the population will do, They are running blind, and all they see is the scales (well, maybe not in some cases) which are reading last weeks meals. So diet plans that we use ourselves here do not necessarily adapt or scale up to the rest of the world.

    Like others here, I note that the rise in obesity seems to begin with the introduction of both the Low Fat mantra and the introduction of Eatwell / food pyramid into the training for NHS nutritionists. By repeating this message yesterday, the gov is not moving off that path in any way, so IMHO the damage and obesity will continue to grow until the new understanding of how carbohydrates are metabolised is accepted by SACN et al. It will not change until the NHS starts educating nutritionists about Low Carbing as a valid tool to use.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,566
    Likes Received:
    2,254
    Trophy Points:
    198
    In which case they need to promote all the alternatives not just the low calorie and surgery options and give the customer the choice.

    If you’ve never needed or struggled to lose weight it’s very easy to have opinions on it that are theory based rather than reality.

    Not everyone can do intensive exercise for a whole variety of reasons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    1,211
    Trophy Points:
    158
    This ^^^^^^^^!!!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Trophy Points:
    198
    The proposed focus seems to be on calories or energy balance as a way to tackle weight. However many of us know anecdotally, and backed by science, that the vast majority of calorie controlled diets do not help people keep to a stable healthy weight but you are correct to point out that people need to find the way that works for them.
    The tactic of blaming excess calories is just that - a tactic to take the focus away from food quality. It will be bad news for low carb, high fat meals which may end up having more calories than a high cabr,low fat option albeit with far more taste, satiety and nutrtion!
    My solution would be to encourage the eating of real food in general with special advice to metabolically ill people (most of the population) to eat proportionately more fat and protein. Exercise is a good idea to keep healthy but not as a weight loss tool in itself
    Oh ad what about some Vitamin D supplements to ward of the upper respiratory lurgies that await us this Winter!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,213
    Likes Received:
    15,310
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Well, I've been doing my bit for a number of years now by ignoring the Eatwell Plate nonsense and eating a low carb diet normal fat instead, as are many others on this Forum. And this is much closer to the way we used to eat before all the fat phobia nonsense was rammed down our throats.:banghead:
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Hug Hug x 1
  10. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    3,183
    Trophy Points:
    198
    This is what Susan Jebb, who is a consultant on the SACN Committee that is advising IJK government on diet strategies. has to say about weight loss diets. She is also a Chair of NICE Public Health Advisory panel
    https://www.ox.ac.uk/research/research-in-conversation/healthy-body-healthy-mind/susan-jebb

    She is a strong proponent for CICO.

    Edit to add a rebuttal article I found that does not agree with her POV just for completeness
    http://www.drbriffa.com/2012/02/17/...ents-obesity-advisor-dish-out-useless-advice/

    Susan Jebb is also a contributor to the latest Oxford Martin push to encourage us all to eat less meat and pile on the veggies. This is her other hat that she wears. She was also one of the founders of the School's SUSTAIN programme to convert British Agriculture to the same end via the Climate Change Committee of which she is also a member.

    This now confirms two of the SACN members are advocating a vegan diet for all which is not declared in their SACN credentials, Susan is the Chair of the NICE Committee on diet and is also on the panel advising the government panel on obesity.

    Note the additional info in the article listing possible commercial conflicts of interest she may be suffering from. I have not confirmed these yet[
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Do you have any evidence for that?
     
  12. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Trophy Points:
    198
    People are eating more veg oils, less red meat and less dairy as measured by consumption volumes. This doesn't account for food wastage but is a useful way to compare our diets across the years. Those stats come from the Food Standard Agency and Parliament which reports a 30% decline in red meat and 27% in the number of dairy cows.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    133
    That doesn't mean that they are following the guidelines, though. This survey of the UK found that they don't. For example, only 31%of adults met the recommendation to eat 5 portions of fruit and veg per day and the average fibre intake is only 19g per day, substantially below the recommended 30g. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-latest-data-on-nations-diet

    Similarly, in the USA, it was found that people are not following government guidelines on nutrition https://health.gov/our-work/food-nu...current-eating-patterns-in-the-united-states/
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    1,529
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Do you think that if we followed the guidelines we would be less diabetic or less obese? I think those guidelines are better than SAD (standard American diet) but that is not saying much! Interestingly fruit and veg numbers are reported to be stable across the decades yet we are markedly less healthy than we once were and the idea that this is down to fibre insufficiency has been robustly challenged when the only science that can defend it is the associational kind.
    this one made me think about my dogmatic consumption of greens and my guilt over not being a fruit bat!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,566
    Likes Received:
    2,254
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    133
    The link you provided does not link to the infographic in your post so I can't look at it in context. The infographic shows that fruit and veg intake are below recommended levels. It also shows calorie intake as being below recommended levels - hopefully there will be a comment elsewhere in the presentation explaining that self-reported calorie intakes are, for various reasons, substantially below actual calorie intake and this should be taken into account.
     
  17. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    848
    Trophy Points:
    133
    If you are implying that the rise in obesity is due to people eating less fat, this graph suggests otherwise:-

    upload_2020-8-1_8-13-27.png


    https://ourworldindata.org/diet-compositions
     
  18. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,631
    Likes Received:
    11,417
    Trophy Points:
    298
    That's supply not consumption..and with a large proportion of that supply being wasted then I'm afraid your graph doesn't really show what you think it does.

    As this points out
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_food_energy_intake

    Odd that Austria is No 2.. I have been a couple of times but can't recall seeing huge amounts of the morbidly obese..

    Edit to add.. I don't think that table represents what it says it does.. for clarity.
     
  19. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    3,183
    Trophy Points:
    198
    The infographic itself contains the reference it uses as source of the data. i,e, the one pointed to by the embedded link in the post. They appear to be using the same data.
     
  20. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,415
    Likes Received:
    3,183
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Not sure on the reliability of this source. It is not WHO data because they compare their conclusions against WHO They do not seem to identify what database they are using, or who does the number crunching.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook