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Discussion in 'Weight Loss and Dieting' started by Oldvatr, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I added the reference quoted on the infographics as this is a screen shot, I cannot link to the infographic source directly. My take is that the infographics were created by the phc from the data in the report.

    If the argument is that we don’t follow guidelines or eat too many calories/too much red meat etc (based on self reported data I assume) and this is why we’re fat as a nation then this report (using similar data reports) conflicts with that claim. If self reporting is inaccurate for one claim then it is for the other too is it not?
     
  2. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the graph shows supply - I had originally intended to point that out in case people didn't realise but there was a glitch with the forum - I was having trouble posting and had to compromise. For clarity, self-reporting (for various reasons) tends to underestimate calorie intake whereas reporting supply will tend to over-estimate consumption (as wastage at consumer level is not taken into account). I don't know whether food wastage is greater in 2013 than it was in 1963.

    However, we are concentrating on relative intake here rather than total kcals and there is no reason to suppose that consumers waste fat more than they do carbohydrate. The graph doesn't show a marked drop in fat consumption from 1983 as was suggested.
     
  3. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    We can't assume that, it would have to be measured.
     
  4. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    There is a tab labelled 'sources'.
     
  5. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don’t understand what “it” you refer to.

    I thought you were arguing against self reporting as an accurate measure for my claim people follow guidelines, in which case it should still be questioned when claiming they don’t as it’s the same tool.

    You asked for my source, I provided it, you don’t like it. Not a lot more to be said.
     
  6. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes the table is showing plant protein and animal protein as both being steady, but meat and dairy consumption has generally dropped in the last decade. Reading the small print in that report it does mention FAO data being used. Two years ago the WHO had to revise their database following detection of corruption being introduced. Two WHO FAO directors were removed for unethical behaviour, and one of them turns up in the EAT Commission.

    Also the rise of vegetable fat sources has increased but animal fat has decreased and the report does not make any distinction to a hidden change that could have significance. The FAO keeps separate record of these, so they are being compounded for a reason in this report. What is also missing is the population growth curve, since like in Trumpland, more people consuming food affects all food consumption relatively.

    Like Trumpland, cut the food consumption, and obesity disappears, Simples.
     
  7. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The graph is per capita.
     
  8. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes so it is. Thank you for correcting me.

    I had not realised how interactive these displays are. It is possible to select different countries. and also to do a relative plot live on screen which is neat. The relative plots are interesting. It seems that the one commodity that actually increases over the timescale is grain and cereals but fat does not drop in response to the Low Fat commands from NICE et al. But obesity is increasing and it seems fats and oils are not in themselves directly connected, regardless of source

    I note that the FAO has changed its presentation of data and the graphs I used to be able to access on the web have been removed. The data is downloadable in tabular form so can produce my own sets I suppose.

    I am surprised that the two protein plots are very steady over time. The FAO tables for meat consumption show a very marked decrease in red meat consumption ( beef, pork, lamb, goat, and butter) but I suppose it is offset by a rise in dairy products and poultry and fish, I am also wondering how the increase in petfood demand is handled. Although I expected the plant based protein to be increasing, it is only in the last few years that it has become significant in terms of sales, The infpgraphic seems to only go up to 2013 so is missing the recent Veganuary surges.
     
  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    The graph doesn't show anything to do with consumption though as we have already concluded?
     
  10. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for any confusion. We know that with self-reporting, people under-report the number of calories they consume. My point was that we can't assume that they also under-report the number of portions of fruit and veg or under-report the amount of red meat they consume.
     
  11. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I wasn’t aware I’d suggested they did.
     
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