GP uses low carb diet with 13 patients -amazed!

[Anonymous]

So you run for the hills when challenged after leaving posts that will do the newly diagnosed no good at all. That is so unfair. But hey maybe best you are not here for the health of many.
Cd

Try "Am I still diabetic".

 

[Unbeliever]

While i totally agreed with those who wanted validation of he GP's credentials , I have often been sorry that the credentials of diabetics cannot be checked. This appplies to all the fora I have ever seen.

Sometimes people deliberately mislead others to give their posts more authority, sometimes they are mistaken or their HCP's are.

I am notparticularly referring to any individuals here at present, its just that I happened to be thinking along these lines and saw Ian's post which chimed with my thoughts.

I would say that if an individual has very different symptoms and reacions to others with the same condition they should seek confirmation of diagnosis.

Often the newly diagnosed, shell shocked person will focus on only what they wish to read/hear.

Its sometimes very diffficult to undersand just how literally people can ake what they read on a forum. Or the bits they like.

I think it is necessary to keep on sressing that difference between an individual's experience and that of the majority of diabetics.

Anyone can be anyone they choose on the internet. Not a bad thing in some ways - can be very liberating but , especially when the health of others is concerned.
Southort GP, Eddie and Iand are all, in their differnt ways , rying to help others .
Gezzahorpe's story is interesting but reminds me of hat of a woman who had been diagnosed with moor neurone disease. particularly orrible and incurable condition. I lost twwo close friens o his disease.
This woman became very active in campaigning for help for the condition , and very well known. After a few years I noiced that i didn't seem to be progressing at all. Another few years -still no progression.
Having winessed the ravages a close quarters I was very puzzled. Evenually she was re-assessed and fond to be suffering from a very much less serious and reatable condition.
I was very pleased for her but a little sorry that her invovement with MN campaigning with the expertise she hd gained sopped when she was no longer personally involved.

I wish gezahorpe an an equally successful oucome.

 

[Andy12345]

I don't understand the numbers

You're suitable qualified for a top job in banking then Andy. Even recognising this is worth a 6 figure bonus in itself!

have my own business for all these years has meant i dont need the bonus, unless the bonus is a low carb cadbury fruit and nut


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[Yorksman]

have my own business for all these years has meant i dont need the bonus, unless the bonus is a low carb cadbury fruit and nut

I remember my days from Rowntree Macks in York when we used to point at certain guys in the canteen and sing, "Smartie people are happy people" which was part of their advertising at the time.

But then the Rave scene took over and it was all blue smarties.

 

[janeecee]

If you look at the results if the Newcastle Diet those people had Hba1c and FBG results in the non-diabetic range and managed to sustain non-diabetic ranges after follow up. Nobody says they weren't diabetic in the first place.

Anecdotal evidence from people who have done a DIY version of the ND have reported similar results, although not validated by extensive lab tests. The diet may be extreme but the key was a low calorie diet and significant weight loss, and then maintaining the weight loss.

It's possible for people to make changes that work for them. If they achieve non-diabetic levels then that doesn't necessarily mean the weren't diabetic to begin with. Also, there's nothing "only" about prediabetes. Higher than normal blood sugar levels put people at risk of other complications. It is a diagnosis that at least allows people to change their diet and lifestyle, sometimes with the effect of reaching non-diabetic levels and minimise other health risks—if they are prepared to make those changes. If Gezzathorpe was "only" prediabetic and not a "real diabetic" it still doesn't negate the effectiveness of those lifestyle changes.


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[SamJB]

There is no prescribed limit on the amount of carbs. It's the practice of avoiding sugar, bread, pasta, rice, potato, grains etc.

 

[Southport GP]

I agree -each person seems to find their own version of the low carb diet ,one that suits them best while broadly avoiding carbs.
Recently I have noticed how often liver function improves along with blood pressure and the drop in HbA1c Also I wonder if patients with a large waist to hip ratio respond particularly well to a low carb diet ?

 

[paul-1976]

Interesting your observation regarding LFTs-Mine improved along with my eGFR level which was in the 40's and is now above 60 at the last count

 

[Anonymous]

So you run for the hills when challenged after leaving posts that will do the newly diagnosed no good at all. That is so unfair. But hey maybe best you are not here for the health of many.
Cd

So, tell us all what the minimum bG will be for a diabetic 2 hours into an OGTT such as the one described in "Am I still diabetic". Don't run for the hills now.

Same question to Tubsolard and IanD

 

[paul-1976]

So you run for the hills when challenged after leaving posts that will do the newly diagnosed no good at all. That is so unfair. But hey maybe best you are not here for the health of many.
Cd

So, tell us all what the minimum bG will be for a diabetic 2 hours into an OGTT such as the one described in "Am I still diabetic". Don't run for the hills now.

Same question to Tubsolard and IanD

11mmol is the 'official' stance but other sources have stated that any single reading of over 11mmol during the test would be indicitive of Diabetes although what this has got to do with the Southport GP's original post is a mystery to me :roll:

 

[Carbdodger]

And I still don't get the relevance of this post here. Let us applaud a GP for being in touch with decent thinking about diabetes control. Your experiment is for you only and not relevant here. I'm not sure what you intend tomprove and neither do I care. I do care that you may misinform those new to this chronic disease.
Cd

 

[Anonymous]

And I still don't get the relevance of this post here. Let us applaud a GP for being in touch with decent thinking about diabetes control. Your experiment is for you only and not relevant here. I'm not sure what you intend tomprove and neither do I care. I do care that you may misinform those new to this chronic disease.
Cd

I think the relevance is that an 'alleged' diabetic on a high carb/low fat regime can achieve similar results to an 'alleged' diabetic on a low carb/high fat regime (ref. OPs original blog). Hope it's a good view from those hills.

 

[janeecee]

Gezzathorpe, it would probably create less friction if we left this thread for Southport GP and the benefits of low carb diets which some diabetics have found to be the cornerstone of their management strategy. As the man himself said, people find what their own carb tolerance is and so the definition of 'low carb' can be subjective, and everyone's ability to metabolise carbs will vary anyway.

It's been a weird thread, with people saying Southport GP isn't a real doctor, and then saying that you aren't a real diabetic, so perhaps it's better to let Southport GP have his say here, as it is his thread, and you have your say on your thread. Otherwise the discussion just gets too heated and it gets personal, and that's never very nice. People can just agree to disagree and leave it at that, eh?




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[Anonymous]

Gezzathorpe, it would probably create less friction if we left this thread for Southport GP and the benefits of low carb diets which some diabetics have found to be the cornerstone of their management strategy. As the man himself said, people find what their own carb tolerance is and so the definition of 'low carb' can be subjective, and everyone's ability to metabolise carbs will vary anyway.

It's been a weird thread, with people saying Southport GP isn't a real doctor, and then saying that you aren't a real diabetic, so perhaps it's better to let Southport GP have his say here, as it is his thread, and you have your say on your thread. Otherwise the discussion just gets too heated and it gets personal, and that's never very nice. People can just agree to disagree and leave it at that, eh?
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That makes good sense. Over and out. :wave:

 

[Sid Bonkers]

It's been a weird thread, with people saying Southport GP isn't a real doctor, and then saying that you aren't a real diabetic, so perhaps it's better to let Southport GP have his say here, as it is his thread, and you have your say on your thread. Otherwise the discussion just gets too heated and it gets personal, and that's never very nice. People can just agree to disagree and leave it at that, eh?

Why would anyone want to stop certain members posting to certain threads? That just stifles debate and the forum would simply degenerate into a club for the like minded to slap each others backs or worse start to ridicule those who disagree with their views, I'm sure no one wants that do they?

As for getting personal it seems to me the only people getting personal now are the few who refuse to accept that there is more than one way to control diabetes.

Lets not forget that there are almost as many diabetic diets as there are diabetics and many people here have great control without the need to stick to any very restrictive diet and to suggest that these people do not have diabetes or that "his or hers diabetes is not as bad as mine" is simply pathetic, the sort of "topper" game that kids play at school, my dads got a bigger car than your dad (my diabetes is worse than yours).

The simply fact is that low carb diets work but frankly they're too restrictive for me and most other people to stick to long term. There is also no long term studies to prove that they are even beneficial in the long term and some may have concerns over vitamin/mineral deficiencies associated with low carb and then there is the weight of anecdotal evidence seen here over the period that I have been a member which suggests that weight loss usually stalls after 6 to 12 months and most people simply dont have the will power or the inclination to sick with a very low carb diet much past a year or two.

Of course there are and will always be those who live and enjoy a low carb lifestyle just as there are some who live and enjoy a vegetarian or even vegan lifestyle but that doesnt make it right for everyone.

So, IMHO there is no need to segregate the forum into low carbers v's others but lets accept that there will always be more than one way to control diabetes.

 

[CerealKiller13]

Southport GP - delighted to see these results mirror that of Prof tim Noakes MD (South Africa), Dr Briffa in the UK and myriad medics I have communicated and/or worked with directly in the making of "Cereal Killers" over a 3 year period. My objective is to personally avoid T2 diabetes and CVD and extensive research lead me towards a LCHF approach - this is the basis of the film. Hopefully our work will ease your path and present patients with accessible answers to the key questions - cholesterol, metabolic health, controlling/reversing T2D etc. We actually interviewed one lady, a health professional, who completely reversed out of T2 Diabetes using a LCHF dietary approach. We have banked some excellent medic reviews for the film already. Perhaps you might like to join that chorus? If so, details here - http://kck.st/12D0nVY Thank you. Donal

 

[Pneu]

I think we all need to accept that there are multiple ways to control diabetes.. we also all need to accept that no two diabetics are the same.. However what you can not dispute is the human bodies metabolic process and the role that insulin resistance plays in metabolic syndrome and then subsequently full blown type II diabetes i.e. high blood glucose, hypertension, weight gain, etc... If you want to decrease insulin resistance then you have three options; medication, exercise and carbohydrate reduction; some people choose one or a combination of all three at the end of the day it doesn't matter what they choose as long as it works for them.

That said and I don't want to get into a big debate about it there are many advantages of being in nutritional ketosis.

 

[Dillinger]

Recently I have noticed how often liver function improves along with blood pressure and the drop in HbA1c Also I wonder if patients with a large waist to hip ratio respond particularly well to a low carb diet ?

Glad to see that you're still posting! It seems to me that if the HbA1c is as close to normal (compared to non-diabetics) all the other problems will take care of themselves; the DCCT confirms that too.

I have a question though; my diabetes consultant who is a nice enough man said that in the 1950's the advice to diabetics was to low-carb but this was abandoned because of problems with heart disease that followed that. I personally can't find any reference to that (i.e. CVD/CHD being caused by low carb diets) anywhere and stupidly didn't ask him for more information on that. Have you ever heard such a thing? I would be very surprised if that were the case but I feel it's worth trying to get to the bottom of.

From my experience the best way to improve HbA1cs and blood lipids is to low carb, and with low HbA1c your chance of heart disease plummets so it's very counterintuitive to me to say low HbA1c = heart attack risk...

Best

Dillinger

 

[Pneu]

Recently I have noticed how often liver function improves along with blood pressure and the drop in HbA1c Also I wonder if patients with a large waist to hip ratio respond particularly well to a low carb diet ?

There is plenty of evidence to show that elevated insulin production causes hypertension; I have seen a couple of papers that estimate that 85% of hypertension cases are caused by elevated insulin production due to an increase in insulin resistance in the patient.. many of these patients do not "show" as diabetic or even pre-diabetic.

If you are really interested then go and have a look at some of Peter Attia's video's / blog... him and his team are doing a lot of research into insulin resistance.. what's nice is that a lot of his seminars are presented to mixed audiance i.e. medical doctors / performance coaches / elite athletes etc.. and thus are technical without requiring a massive in-depth knowledge of bio-chemistry to understand.

 

[Giverny]

This thread was de-railed long ago, so I'm going to close this thread. By all means, carry on your debate via private message.