Great Desmond Course and Coping

JoKalsbeek · Jul 3, 2019

Courts_12 said:
Hey Jo,

I have tried cutting carbs nearly completely but I am just going to see what works best from now on. Definitely not a good experience. They want to take me off gliclazide but when I ran out before I felt rubbish when I did not take them unless taking more metformin balances it out? If I am type 2 if I managed to feel fine without tablets I would go with just the diet control. Although since using these tablets I get headaches behind my eyes mainly every day nearly and constant dry mouth still which is annoying.

That is crazy, did they not label it on the menu? I have not ate out at restaurants much since been diagnosed as I was worried about that. St least you managed to walk it off I need to start learning that exercise needs to be a bigger part of my life now. I just need to get into the habit of going to the gym or swimming. A pump stuck to someone? Ouch isn’t that painful? I hate needles so just picturing a bigger version of a needle!

I am terrified of needles! Omg I was exactly the same I am still nervous when pressing the button it takes me a good few minutes to build up courage.
I am hoping it is more towards type 2 although it is very rare that my sugars go below 10 after eating. I cannot wait to get more energy I have definitely felt more drained lately I have never relied on tablets before even when I got bad stomach pains I stayed away from tablets.

Thank you so much, it has helped a lot just to talk everything over! I will have a look now I need to start focusing properly on my diet rather than just cutting out a lot. I never want to experience a hypo again I feel bad for people who get them often. I am praying the doc has the answers

Courtney

Good morning Courtney,

How are you feeling today? If you're still a little off (tired maybe?), it could be because of the hypo. Sometimes they leave you reeling a little for a day after. So try not to worry about it, it's normal if you're not feeling 100%. As for running out of glic and not feeling too hot after that: You were probably still eating too many carbs not to feel cruddy. If your bloodsugars went high -say, because of granola for instance,- you'd feel wreched indeed. It's really one or the other: take glic and have carbs (which in the long run isn't preferable), or cut carbs drastically and stop the glic if it starts causing hypo's. If you change your diet, the chances of complications reduce dramatically. If any of that makes sense. Just don't get too far into it if you don't quite know what you're doing yet, because like with the granola, you'd get spikes you can't handle. So learn about what you can safely eat first, (read a LOT on low carb/high fat and keto. Dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code for instance will help. Your meter is a good guide, but it helps to know what is *likely* to spike you.). Read first, put into practice later. Especially if you don't want to come off the gliclazide just yet, AND want to avoid hypo's.

As for a pump or continuous meter, the needles are incorporated into a plaster/patch, and they're tiny. And not quite needles either, from what I understand, but more like filaments. I never had one though, just went low carb and called it a day. The perk of being a T2: control comes relatively easy. (Well, when comparing it to my other illnesss anyway... T2 is the easy one. Rheumatism, migraines, hypothyroid etc are a little more complicated to tackle.)

Ah, the salad.... They listed honey and fruit with other salads, so I thought the tuna'd be safe. Turns out that restaurant just really, really loved their locally made honey, and dumped it in everything. Thankfully the place was located in a rather lovely park, where we went for a walk, and afterwards we went to a market elsewhere where I got a good bit of walking in as well. After a little while of low carbing, your insulin sensitivity gets better, so where first I would've had a massive spike due to this, now it was sort of okay.... Still a slight spike, but not as bad as it would have been a few years ago, and easily handled with a nice, brisk walk. Things just keep getting better, if you stick with it.

Hope all's good today! Again, good luck with the doc!
Jo

Courts_12 · Jul 3, 2019

JoKalsbeek said:
Good morning Courtney,

How are you feeling today? If you're still a little off (tired maybe?), it could be because of the hypo. Sometimes they leave you reeling a little for a day after. So try not to worry about it, it's normal if you're not feeling 100%. As for running out of glic and not feeling too hot after that: You were probably still eating too many carbs not to feel cruddy. If your bloodsugars went high -say, because of granola for instance,- you'd feel wreched indeed. It's really one or the other: take glic and have carbs (which in the long run isn't preferable), or cut carbs drastically and stop the glic if it starts causing hypo's. If you change your diet, the chances of complications reduce dramatically. If any of that makes sense. Just don't get too far into it if you don't quite know what you're doing yet, because like with the granola, you'd get spikes you can't handle. So learn about what you can safely eat first, (read a LOT on low carb/high fat and keto. Dr. Jason Fung's The Diabetes Code for instance will help. Your meter is a good guide, but it helps to know what is *likely* to spike you.). Read first, put into practice later. Especially if you don't want to come off the gliclazide just yet, AND want to avoid hypo's.

As for a pump or continuous meter, the needles are incorporated into a plaster/patch, and they're tiny. And not quite needles either, from what I understand, but more like filaments. I never had one though, just went low carb and called it a day. The perk of being a T2: control comes relatively easy. (Well, when comparing it to my other illnesss anyway... T2 is the easy one. Rheumatism, migraines, hypothyroid etc are a little more complicated to tackle.)

Ah, the salad.... They listed honey and fruit with other salads, so I thought the tuna'd be safe. Turns out that restaurant just really, really loved their locally made honey, and dumped it in everything. Thankfully the place was located in a rather lovely park, where we went for a walk, and afterwards we went to a market elsewhere where I got a good bit of walking in as well. After a little while of low carbing, your insulin sensitivity gets better, so where first I would've had a massive spike due to this, now it was sort of okay.... Still a slight spike, but not as bad as it would have been a few years ago, and easily handled with a nice, brisk walk. Things just keep getting better, if you stick with it.

Hope all's good today! Again, good luck with the doc!
Jo

Hi,

Today I have felt horrible but stuck it out at work! Definitely never want this feeling again. I have booked a doctors appointment for next Tuesday with my GP so hopefully they can sort out my meds. I have cut out granola now just a struggle to find things for breakfast which I am allowed! I will look into the dr Jason fung.

I am hoping I can avoid that and needles altogether. Thank god I am just stuck with this then as bad as I feel at times aha.

Oh god a bit weird to put honey on salad but if it tastes good then it must be alright. I don’t eat honey thankfully! At least you know what works for you though and I will definitely take that on board if I spike too much I will walk around where I live.

Thank you

bulkbiker · Jul 3, 2019

Courts_12 said:
It is killing me not to eat it but I am trying my best. Is grapefruit any good? Just trying to find fruit that I can still eat to keep me sane

Berries.. straw and rasp are the lowest carb have them with full fat yoghurt and double cream.

Courts_12 · Jul 3, 2019

bulkbiker said:
Berries.. straw and rasp are the lowest carb have them with full fat yoghurt and double cream.

Thank you! That sounds great! Will try that

Courts_12 · Jul 3, 2019

HSSS said:
What happened in hospital? Did you get the results of type 1 testing? Antibodies and c peptide?

If you feel rubbish when your numbers are high then obviously the answer is to get the numbers down. They used insulin as a quick method. Long term as a type 2 the answer is to restrict the carbs and tackle the insulin resistance.

What sort of numbers do you get now pre and post meals? And what are you eating on any that are higher? Maybe we can make some suggestions to get you to more comfortable numbers sooner.

I rang my doctors earlier and they never did a c peptide test just a GAD test and said I had no antibodies? A bit confused with it all. I am booked in for next Tuesday, should I ask for more tests since they are still not positive I am type 2?

Daibell · Jul 3, 2019

Courts_12 said:
I rang my doctors earlier and they never did a c peptide test just a GAD test and said I had no antibodies? A bit confused with it all. I am booked in for next Tuesday, should I ask for more tests since they are still not positive I am type 2?

Hi again. As I said in my earlier post, many GPs assume T1 is only caused by GAD antibodies. There are other, rarer, antibodies and viruses are also a cause but very few GPs realise that. This why so many, including me, are wrongly placed in the T2 category and start by getting the wrong treatment. Isn't the NHS wonderful! I hope you get it sorted.

Courts_12 · Jul 3, 2019

Daibell said:
Hi again. As I said in my earlier post, many GPs assume T1 is only caused by GAD antibodies. There are other, rarer, antibodies and viruses are also a cause but very few GPs realise that. This why so many, including me, are wrongly placed in the T2 category and start by getting the wrong treatment. Isn't the NHS wonderful! I hope you get it sorted.

Hi,

Sorry I did not see your post! Been trying to reply to everyone between work and lost track. They definitely don’t release a lot of things they all say different. I did not know that though so hopefully I can push them to do more tests. And it is amazing! I get they are struggling with budgets but risking people’s health is stupid. Thank you I have a doctors appointment, my dietician and my eye screening next Tuesday so hopefully will be more sorted!

EllieM · Jul 3, 2019

Courts_12 said:
I rang my doctors earlier and they never did a c peptide test just a GAD test and said I had no antibodies? A bit confused with it all. I am booked in for next Tuesday, should I ask for more tests since they are still not positive I am type 2?

In your position, I would definitely ask for a c-peptide. Remind your doctor that many T1s do not show up from the GAD test and that a correct early diagnosis will make a big difference to your medication needs and your quality of life.

Good luck.

Courts_12 · Jul 3, 2019

EllieM said:
In your position, I would definitely ask for a c-peptide. Remind your doctor that many T1s do not show up from the GAD test and that a correct early diagnosis will make a big difference to your medication needs and your quality of life.

Good luck.

Thank you, I am going to ask my doctor next Tuesday if he can get me booked in for the test. I don’t understand why they don’t just do it in the first place since it makes a massive difference. Hopefully I can get them to listen; I am going to go in with a list like suggested by others just so I do not go off track

JoKalsbeek · Jul 4, 2019

Courts_12 said:
Thank you, I am going to ask my doctor next Tuesday if he can get me booked in for the test. I don’t understand why they don’t just do it in the first place since it makes a massive difference. Hopefully I can get them to listen; I am going to go in with a list like suggested by others just so I do not go off track

They're expensive tests to do, so usually they just guess at things instead. The odds are mostly in their favor when it comes to people who are older than you are, and especially if they're overweight. (Not all T2's are, but the bulk of us... Yeah.). So they just make a bunch of assumptions and go from there. It's cheaper than throwing every test in the book at you, especially when they don't actually know about said tests. I do hope you feel better today. As for breakfast, full fat yoghurt with berries (and maybe nuts like walnuts/pecans/macadamia's or coconutshavings), double cream, that sort of stuff, will get you sorted. As would bacon, eggs, high meat content sausages, cheese... Most days I skip breakfast, but if you're on metformin first thing, you don't want to do that. (Tummy troubles lie that way). That reminds me... If you're feeling horrid, exactly what kind of horrid are we talking about? because that could also be metformin side effects rather than a hypo-aftermath. In any case, good luck with everything!
Jo

Courts_12 · Jul 4, 2019

JoKalsbeek said:
They're expensive tests to do, so usually they just guess at things instead. The odds are mostly in their favor when it comes to people who are older than you are, and especially if they're overweight. (Not all T2's are, but the bulk of us... Yeah.). So they just make a bunch of assumptions and go from there. It's cheaper than throwing every test in the book at you, especially when they don't actually know about said tests. I do hope you feel better today. As for breakfast, full fat yoghurt with berries (and maybe nuts like walnuts/pecans/macadamia's or coconutshavings), double cream, that sort of stuff, will get you sorted. As would bacon, eggs, high meat content sausages, cheese... Most days I skip breakfast, but if you're on metformin first thing, you don't want to do that. (Tummy troubles lie that way). That reminds me... If you're feeling horrid, exactly what kind of horrid are we talking about? because that could also be metformin side effects rather than a hypo-aftermath. In any case, good luck with everything!
Jo

I am hoping I can get them to stop guessing then and do the tests. Definitely going to mention it to my doctor as these tablets just seem to be making me feel like rubbish with dry mouth constantly. They mentioned a slow release metformin is that any good? I never used to eat breakfast but I am trying to eat it more often now. I never knew I could eat all that I was told all the healthy stuff and to avoid most fruit. But that is great I will stop worrying about what to eat and see which is best.

I felt drained like I had not slept even though I had enough sleep. With my tablets I just have dry mouth constantly still but no other side effects really. Hopefully if it was the tablets effects then the doctors will be able to sort it out next week. Thank you!

JoKalsbeek · Jul 4, 2019

Courts_12 said:
I am hoping I can get them to stop guessing then and do the tests. Definitely going to mention it to my doctor as these tablets just seem to be making me feel like rubbish with dry mouth constantly. They mentioned a slow release metformin is that any good? I never used to eat breakfast but I am trying to eat it more often now. I never knew I could eat all that I was told all the healthy stuff and to avoid most fruit. But that is great I will stop worrying about what to eat and see which is best.

I felt drained like I had not slept even though I had enough sleep. With my tablets I just have dry mouth constantly still but no other side effects really. Hopefully if it was the tablets effects then the doctors will be able to sort it out next week. Thank you!

Slow release metformin is usually switched to if you get the runs from the regular kind. Bit kinder on the intestines and stomach. Dryness of mouth is more a symptom that indicates high bloodsugars. Are you drinking enough? Are your bloodsugars still in the double digits? As for breakfast, it's a metformin thing... Without it you could go for intermittent fasting (not eating until lunch), but as long as you're not 100% on what type you are, and are stuck with medication.... Not a safe thing to try. As for metformin, it also has sleepiness as a side effect, and just feeling cruddy in general. So if you felt like that before the hypo you had, it could be a side effect. Metformin is a go-to, the first thing perscribed, but there's a lot of other meds you could be switched to, if that does seem to be the cause of some discomfort.

There's a lot yet to find out. But you know where to go if you have questions.
Jo

JenniferW · Jul 4, 2019

xfieldok said:
I will just come out and say it. Aaaarrrggggghhhhh. Seriously, we tend to warn people who are going to attend the Desmond Course to be wary of the dietary information. The word is spreading slowly but carbohydrates are not your friend. They all will affect your glucose levels. Please do some reading around the forum. Most of us follow LCHF with a few carnivores, vegans, vegetarians thrown in.

Just out of interest, do you know what your HBA1C number was at diagnosis. Do you have any weight to lose?

You will get loads of support on this site.

Welcome to the forum.

I love the 'Aaaarrrggggghhhhh'! Just about sums up the frustrations so many T2 people must feel when dealing with all too many of the specialist healthcare professionals ... so many of them, so much out-of-date given what's now understood from research?

But if you're newly diagnosed, how are you meant to handle this? It's taken me a while to really take on board the low-carb diet, and the absence of support from my local diabetic nurse (I never see a GP) is more than depressing.

JenniferW · Jul 4, 2019

JoKalsbeek said:
There's a lot yet to find out. But you know where to go if you have questions.
Jo

My best-buy was a copy of David Cavan's 'Reverse your Diabetes'. Four years after buying it, I still go back and re-read bits whenever I'm confused or need something to motivate me. Money so well spent.

Ricky · Jul 4, 2019

Hi - I have come in late to this and sorry I haven't got time to read through 4 pages.
I notice you were talking about fruit and just want to say that the best advice I was ever given was to eat fruit WITH your meal and not between meals. That way it doesn't spike your blood sugar.
I found out what I could eat using a meter when I was first diagnosed and go figure but I can't eat bread (except a slice of Sainsburys HiLo or Waitrose LivLife which are both low carb/high protein breads), I can't eat potatoes, rice etc BUT I can eat some Udon noodles!! We are all different. I hope you have tried the lentil/black bean/edamame pasta you can get in many supermarkets like Morrisons.
Oh yes do look at the ingredients of all lowsugar/no sugar products which have sweeteners. Xylitol and stevia are natural. Malitol which may be spelt in different ways spikes my blood sugar and many others on here so I won't eat any protein bars with it in. I can get away with Quest bars (Holland and Barrett and Amazon) . They are expensive but good if you need a quick sweet tasting hit. I keep one in the car and a bite will satisfy!!
Hope I have not repeated these tips from posts above that I haven't read.

Daibell · Jul 4, 2019

Hi again. Probably worth saying that in addition to bowel issues which some people have with standard Metformin you may also have a taste change (e.g. metallic) with either standard or Slow Release (SR) Metformin. BTW the latter does help a lot with bowel issues. Gliclazide rarely causes any upsets but dose control is needed to avoid over-stimulating the pancreas and/or stimulating it enough. With T2 it's a drug that shouldn't be needed. With Late onset T1 it can help for a while before insulin.

Lolabear1 · Jul 4, 2019

Courts_12 said:
Hi my name is Courtney, I was newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in April and at 22 it was a massive shock. I have been struggling to come to terms with it but today I attended a Desmond course.

I really struggle in groups as I am quite shy but it was the best thing I could do. I gained so much knowledge and learned different things to try to eat and what is best to avoid.

I am really feeling happy now about getting this under control. It was so nerve wracking as I was the youngest person there (over the age of 50) but everyone understood and reassured me. So if anyone gets the opportunity go to the Desmond course it has helped me understand so much more.

Although I am just wondering if anyone around the same age has advice on how they are coping as it has been a struggle to find people of a similar age with Type 2 diabetes.

Thank you, Courtney

Welcome! I too have been diagnosed recently - in the last few weeks and it's all bewildering for sure. There is so much info out there but you have to sift the good from the bad and decide what works for you as we are all individuals. Best wishes!

L1ncslass · Jul 5, 2019

Hi

Just read through the thread, wouldn't it be great if all Dr's & Diabetic Nurses were uptodate and gave out CORRECT medical advice re diabetes and how to manage it! Instead you get a mish -mash of outdated rubbish.

If you got bitten by a poisonous snake you wouldn't keep putting your hand back for another bte just because there's an antidote -as eventually the this stops working. So why keep poisoning your body with carbs if you can't process them..

You need proper confirmation of the type of diabetic you are as stated before T2's overproduce insulin and T1's under/or don't produce insulin., However both can see beneficial responses to a Keto or LCHF diet [T1's look at Dr Richard Bernstein on youtube for how he eats for his T1] HOWEVER you need to know which one, for the appropriate response to symptoms.

I no longer have my reviews with the diabetic nurse, rubbish advice, ignorant re T2 and LC diet and the fact you CAN put T2 into remission. Letter of complaint to the surgery I now have all my reviews with my GP, whilst not knowledgeable re Keto [not allowed to recommend due to NICE] BUT supportive [can endorse LCHF] and last review he was asking me more questions as now normal blood glucose. DN labelled me as a non-compliant patient, he shook my hand and said I was a model patient! {I digress]

When I first started self monitoring blood glucose SMBG [self funded my GP didn't want me to test BUT it's the only way to get a more instant picture of what food affects YOU. I had double digit readings, I had [false] HYPO like symptoms when I dropped my BG into the 8's [still on SR Metformin at this stage - can't believe you were given the ****** version first!] and GP said I could stop taking the Metformin 3 months in [Only ever took ONE of the four prescribed daily]

By 9-12 months my BG runs between 4.2 to 6 ish. Not only do I have to eat low carb but also low to moderate protein [gluconeogenesis converting excess proteins to glucose] and now I do not have symptoms of a Hypo they only kick in when I get to less than 3.7mmol/mol [I can give myself a Hypo if I eat LC and Mod protein in the absence of fats].

I rarely eat fruit as fructose is more 'toxic' than glucose to diabetics it goes straight to the liver to be metabolised.

You've been given some great advice re SMBG, KETO/LC diets. Google, Youtube & Facebook great research tools for LC recipes NOT a diabetic cook book and lots of information on and the Keto/LC diet and how it helps with diabetes. Hopefully you will get a CORRECT diagnosis of Type soon.

Good luck on your journey to better health and as Hypocrites said Let food be thy medicine and medicine thy food. Fuel your body better with REAL food, Good health is wealth, nothing is sweeter than success and being in remission [and reversed mild retinopathy] is worth more than a slice of bread, biscuit, cake or piece of fruit xx

HarryBeau · Jul 5, 2019

Courts_12 said:
However if I just go to just metformin I will be made to pay the prescriptions which I guess will work out as a lot.

If you are diagnosed as diabetic you will not be charged for your prescriptions...so if you do manage to stop taking the Gliclazide when your levels reduce and go to Metformin there wont be a charge...as for the DESMOND course I attended for me it was a complete waste of time...outdated & archaic advice...I joined a forum & read the best book I have on diabetes...Type 2 The First Year by Gretchen Becker it is available on Amazon...or possibly from your library...you can preview the book before deciding whether to buy...it explains in detail what diabetes is...how we develop it...whether it is our own fault (the answer is no)… there are chapters on diet lowering your carbs and so much more...have a look at the preview I can say its one of the best investments I've made.

HSSS · Jul 5, 2019

Bubbsie said:
If you are diagnosed as diabetic you will not be charged for your prescriptions...so if you do manage to stop taking the Gliclazide when your levels reduce and go to Metformin there wont be a charge.

Partly right.

Being on ANY diabetic medication entitles you to free prescription exemption when applied for via the dr. So switching from gliclazide to metformin won’t change this. @Courts_12

Being diagnosed alone (ie purely diet controlled) doesn’t get you the same entitlement

Great Desmond Course and Coping

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