Had my first appointment with the Diabetic Dietician today!

[tubolard]

The two topics closed today were because the threads were being hijacked by what's going on in this one. Paradoxically, this thread, which is about diet, appears to be being hijacked too, about something entirely different It says something about us if we can't stick to talking about diet in a diet thread

 

[tubolard]

Fascinating as this is. This topic is about the advice we receive from our dietitians, and should be restricted to that.

It is not about the style of anyone's postings. Nor is it a bash a dietitian thread

Ally has said, on at least two separate occasions that she is not willing, via this forum, to describe a diet for anyone for fear of her professional standing and career, that wish should be respected.

Is there any way you can answer questions without giving specific advice Ally?

Regards, Tubs.

 

[ally5555]

tubs I can give very general advice and tbh I think that is right - food is very powerful. I can tell someone that their diet is low in a nutrient and explain how they could inc say vitamin C. But prescribing levels of carbs etc is a no no.

I am also quite happy to let people access my food database - its on my laptop. You may find this useful as alot of the food tables on the internet are from the US.

 

[ally5555]

?

 

[ChocFish]

Ally I have done extremely low carb for 2 years, I had to do it, it was done under medical supervision due to me being grossly obese and extremely high bg, during those 2 years of extremely low carb my health actually IMPROVED each and every day.
It was more a mental rather than a physical struggle for me, but even that got better because I gradualy became fitter, slimmer, healthier, bg levels dropped and stabilised, so whats wrong with it??? I am no walking miracle, I am not the only one that has benefitted from very low carb either, and even Dr Bernstein is living proof that it works, the guy is in his 80s now, a type 1 diabetic, he is living proof that this regimen works a treat.
Just because I am not a dieititian doenst mean that I am stupid, I have the personal experience that proves that low carbing works and saves lives, I am a diabetic, you are not, you might have the theory/professional experience, but I have practical experience and I am now healthier now than I was when I was in my 20s.

Karen

 

[ally5555]

?

 

[ChocFish]

I am pleased that you agree there, low carbing does work, I thought I would never hear you say that -

My dietitian and doctors advised me to do extreme low carbing, therefore they helped me, very much so

Karen

 

[ally5555]

it does work but what you find happens is that other methods catch up - if you look at the bbc diet trials low carb lost wt the fastest but the analysis showed it was lowest in calories . The problem is sustaianing it at the end of a year it wasnt in front - the slimming club was. Low carbing gets results faster but everything else catches up - the south west trial is showing that too.

 

[Jem]

Low carbing works because it is really a low calorie diet - source bbc diet trials and my own analysis!

Ally, hello, first of all I would like to point out that I do NOT wish to jump aboard an Ally bashing wagon, that is not my intention, however, your comment above (sourced bbc and your own research) I must bring some of my experience to bear:

Under guidance of medical staff, various HCPs, dietitian and endocrinologist, I spent some time on an extremely low calorie diet - it was around 600 calories aday, because I was clinically obese, not morbindly so, but enough to be a major health concern for a young woman of childbearing age.

The longer I spent on the diet, the worse my health became, my hair started to get thinner (I have recently screened clear of hypothyroidism, although it is hereditary within my family) my skin sank and turned into an oozing mess, my knee joint (weakened from a motorbike accident many years ago) became more and more painful and yet - no weight loss. On a 600 calorie a day diet.

I finished that painful and frankly deprived period of my life about 2lbs heavier than I has started it.

The conclcuion drawn was that I was a stupid diet cheater and despite being a suferer of OCD I "must have forgotten what I ate" even though everything was written up in a manner that would surprise even yourself, with fat grammes and overall calories from fat percentages.

All my own GP had to say was:

Eat less - Do more.

I exercised and dieted.

And stayed fat, getting fatter and unhealthier on my high carb low fat diet.

When I was pregnant I was under strict guidance from both diabetic team (I had insulin dependant GD) and dietetics team. NOBODY could understand WHY my BG reading were so shockingly high. Even though I was puking up the vast majority of my food (Hyperemesis Gravidarum) again I was labelled stupid and not telling the truth about what I'd eaten. During the last week of my pregnancy I was pushing units in excess of my own body weight (over 100 units humulog) to eat almost nothing and STILL have hyperglycaemia.

I have been bordering diabetes ever since although my GP seemed almost reticent to diagnose me.

FINALLY in August of this year (on my husband's birthday of all days) I was given the red flag and officially became DIABETIC.

Luckily for me I found this site within a few days and carefully began to read about how diabetics could overcome their BG problems.

Since seeing information from Fergus, Eddie, Sue, Karen, Hana and may others on this site, I have followed a reduced carb diet.

On some days I may eat as little as 20 grammes of total carbs - on others it might be as much as 60 grammes.

In the 2.5 months since diagnosis and LOW CARB conversion* (*said with a hint of a smile) I have shed over 17 lbs and whilst the initial period of adjustement was bewildering, I now eat between 1200 and 1800 calories a day - which is SIGNIFICANTLY higher you will note than my recorded 600 calories a day enforced diet (200-300% calorific value).

So one cannot surmise that a LOW CARB diet is low calorie and that is what makes it work ...

I'm not a scientist and I have not attended 6 years of medical training HOWEVER I understand a few basic principals:

1. diabetics cannot process carbs without assistance, type 1s use insulin or similar injectables and type 2s may use diet, exercise, drugs or injectables (of combinations thereof) to aid their carb processing.

2. the body WILL make it's own glucose products (is it called glucagen? cannot recall) from protein and fat - therefore CARBS are NOT a vital human food. this glucose that the body makes itself CAN be processed by diabetics.

3. low carb DOES NOT equal low calorie

4. high fat and sufficient protein diets combined with carb reduction IS an effective answer for MANY people (note the many - not saying all)

5. advising a diabetic *see note 1* to eat "plenty of carbs" is tantamount to murder

I hope you take these comments as they were intended and also hope that you can gain some understanding of why so many "PRO REDUCED CARBER" type are so passionate about their way of eating --- because the alternative made them sick.

All the best, wished in peace, Jem xox

 

[wiflib]

Ah, I spotted the different focus here.

I fail to see how comparing a paper on the amount of weight lost with different dietary approaches has any baring on diabetes and the control of BS. If I was in that study, I would have jacked it in quicker than you can say hot, buttered toast.

I've had a quick read of the BBC paper; the sample size is very small.

I have never been on a weight-reducing diet because I knew I would fail. BUT, I am able to stick to a low-carb diet because it's the only way to control my T2. The fact that I'm getting thinner is just a side effect of that diet.

Motivation is a powerful thing, but us humans, even knowing the risks, will carry on with our risky behaviour until someone points out that we lost the gamble. I lost the gamble. I would have carried on with my previous diet; I always used to say I would die fat, full and fantastic rather than thin, hungry and miserable, but my T2 has changed all that.

I stick to my eating habits because if I don't........
Well, we all know the answer to that, don't we and it's got nothing to do with the size of my jeans.

wiflib

 

[ChocFish]

I did the low carb for 2 years, there was no bbc trial or any other trial for all I know, and in any case for me it was a case to get well again to lose weight as fast as is possible and that is all that I worried about and I trusted my doctors and my dietitian too, all professional people. I was also told at the time that I could eat as much as I wanted to keep me full and not feel hungry, had I done the higher carb thing I would have had to survive on small amounts of food and it would not have worked for me at all.
Please Ally post links to these trials that you are referring to, so that people can refer to them before making an informed choice.
Not only did I lose all my surplus weight, I also kept the weight off since then. And I am not an Ally-basher either.

Karen

 

[ally5555]

!

 

[fergus]

Low carbing works because it is really a low calorie diet

Ally, that is a ridiculous comment, quite frankly.
The dietetic default seems to be that only calorie restriction - semi-starvation diets - are capable of inducing weight loss. This misconception has been repeatedly disproved, but the message is taking a long time to get through it seems.
An understanding of the role of insulin in fat metabolism would be an advantage I think, but it appears diabetics on the front line have a clearer understanding than many health professionals.
Can you explain to me, for example, how I can eat ~2800 calories per day but be 4 stones lighter than when eating a similar number on a low fat high carb diet?
This I want to hear.....

fergus

 

[ally5555]

wifib - there is enough evidence that a wt loss of 10kg has a good effect on bs.

there is further data to be published on the bbc trials - but compared to alot of the low carb trails it is comparable - their nos are small.

Gem let me analyse your diet at some point - i am collecting data - dont know what i am going to do with it as i am not in a position to publish it or do a study but i like to look at the low carbers lol

 

[ally5555]

fergus - how do you analyse it ?

 

[Jem]

@ Ally - Sure, I will write a few day's worth up for you at some point

 

[ally5555]

ok -

 

[wiflib]

Ally, I know weight loss improves BS but it doesn't cure a knackered pancreas.
The point I thought I made well was that any weight-reducing diet would have been a complete non-starter, let alone sustainable. Now I don't eat carbs, I don't crave them so I don't eat them. A nice vicious circle.

If I eat carbs, my BS rises quite dramatically and I fight the craving to eat more for most of my waking hours so I can't include them in my diet.

Your clients who can achieve weight-loss and good BS control AND eat carbs with most meals need congratulating on their will-power and control. Please let them know that nobody on this forum would ever mock them or their eating habits. Quite the opposite, I would love to be able to eat bread and potatoes again and if they can tell me how, I'm all ears.

wiflib

 

[Jem]

oh dear god, you know how much I would LOVE to scoff a few slices of tiger bread?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

*dribbles on keyboard*

 

[fergus]

Ally, I will happily post a comparison of a typical daily food intake, both pre and post low carb. The low carb day is 70 calories higher. It requires 25% of the insulin necessary on the higher carb diet.
All the foods are weighed and calorie per gram levels taken from the manufacturers / producers own labelling. Not rocket science.

Robski, I hope for a full and active life until mown down by a dietician in an unfortunate 'accident'.
But if they strike me down, I will return more powerful than you can possibly imagine (c. G. Lucas)

fergus