Have you cured or reversed type 2

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
lindisfel said:
I accept now I am set on a low GI carb diet for life, I shall never be able to eat a 12 inch pizza's again!

They are not too bad if you go to a proper italian rest. with a real pizza oven. They throw the pizza up in the air and they are thin in the middle. If you don't eat the crust on the edge, which usually doesn't have any topping anyway, the pizza base in middle is not much 'bread' at all. I have found that it is OK for me whereas white bread does normally spike me.

OK, you miss the crunchy outside, but the rest of the pizza is still much better than no pizza.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
lindisfel said:
Hi Kathy....,
I have got my HbA1c down to 46 from 50 purely by bringing carbs down drastically. No meds.
Any grains..including porridge oats and breads, also potatoes, spike me almost immediately after eating and I cannot imagine ever being able to eat the carbs I consumed a year ago before diagnosis....when occasional I enjoyed a large fish and large chips!

Therefore because I am a type 2 I continue to 'throttle' these carbs right back by using a meter to measure their effect.

I have a BMI less then 24, so weight is not a problem now, but I don't have age on my side.

I accept now I am set on a low GI carb diet for life, I shall never be able to eat a 12 inch pizza's again!

As I said 10 years ago when they treated me for locally advanced P.C...."It is life Jim, but not as we know it!" :) ;)

I hope by diet alone to get my HbA1c down to c.40 but I shall still be a diabetic unless I could get through a glucose tolerance test as a non diabetic.
regards
Derek

One pizza, one evening occasionally won't hurt. Chill! I wouldn't eat the little plastic table in the middle though. :D
 

zaphod37

Well-Known Member
Messages
204
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Prejudice and bullying
The wee plastic table in the middle is to balance your emergency shot glass on :lol:

Mark
 

wiflib

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,966
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
My latest HbA1c was 4.6 and this would suggest I don't actually have diabetes but I can assure you I do, I just choose not to eat the stuff that would give me a much higher number. It's the low carb, good fat way for me for the rest of my life.

wiflib
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
wiflib said:
My latest HbA1c was 4.6 and this would suggest I don't actually have diabetes but I can assure you I do, I just choose not to eat the stuff that would give me a much higher number. It's the low carb, good fat way for me for the rest of my life.

wiflib

Excellent HbA1C. Are you hoping to come off the metformin and vitamin D3?
 

wiflib

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,966
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I shall carry on taking both for as long as I can. I take one 500mg met a day which has been shown to have some heart protective qualities and the D3 varies in the daily dose, depending on the time of year.

wiflib
 

johnlfitz

Active Member
Messages
33
I was lucky enough to get some information from Dr Roy Taylor on this subject (I emailed a few respected diabetic Drs in this field when I started getting some results after diagnosis).

In my case, my hba1c went from 7.2% (55 in new measure) to 5.0% (31 in new measure) purely from low carbing and exercise, which backs up the theories and research Dr Taylor talks about. I'm now just under 15st, down from 18st 6lbs only 4 months ago. My fasting sugars are 4s to early 5s and I hardly ever go above 7.5% after meals (unless something carb heavy like pizza or a takeaway / curry has passed my lips that evening! :p ) Liver ALT and AST levels have halved in this period and are now in normal territory.

Anyway, here's what was said:

Dear John,

You have done very well indeed to lose over 2 stones in the 7 weeks. The blood glucose numbers you report suggest that you have normal blood glucose control at present. However, this is during the continuing weight loss. For most people, weight loss of 15% (about 2st 10 lb for you) which is maintained in the long term will achieve reversal of diabetes.

You ask about the raised ALT, and this is a simple matter. The ALT rises due to the excess fat in the liver. If the fatty liver continues, there is a chance of developing cirrhosis. However, at the early stage it is entirely reversible. We observe the raised ALT returning to normal with weight loss. For a person in your situation I would recommend that you continue to lose weight to your target, or at least to lose 2st 10 lb, then ask your GP to re-measure both ALT and HbA1c. It may be useful to print out and take this email with you to show your doctor. Do bear in mind that I can only provide information, and your GP will give you personal medical advice.

I hope these points are helpful.

Yours sincerely,

RT


*************************************
Roy Taylor
Professor of Medicine and Metabolism
Director, Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre
Newcastle University
Campus for Ageing & Vitality
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE4 5PL
0191-248-1172 or 1152
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres

_____________________________________________

Dear Doctors,
Please forgive my “copy all” email approach, but I have some recent personal experience of a dramatic change or reversal in average & fasting blood glucose levels over the past 7 weeks (since I was diagnosed as Type 2 diabetic 7 weeks ago). I have achieved this, I believe, due to self initiated rapid weight loss. I hope you find it of interest.

As I mentioned above, I myself was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes just 7 weeks ago. I’m male, aged 37, 5ft 8 inch tall. At the time of diagnoses, I weighed 18 stone 5lbs. I desperately wanted to tackle / reduce the onset of diabetes myself via diet and exercise, and so I rejected my GP’s suggestion of starting Metformin. Admittedly, I “overdid” it diet-wise / exercise-wise over the last 7 weeks …… I went on a very restricted low carb low fat diet (self initiated) and hit my home electric treadmill 2 or 3 times a day. I have lost 2 stone 3lbs in the last 6 weeks to now weigh 16 stone 2lbs. I felt ill during this time (hence my “I overdid it” comment) and felt really weak, light headed, ill and woozy, but my blood glucose readings have come down from 11-15 mmol/L postprandial, to typically 6-7.5 mmol/L postprandial after the weight loss. In the last 2 weeks my fasting overnight readings (first thing in the morning when waking up) are now at 4.5 – 5.2 mmol/L. My GP has noted that my liver ALT levels are 122 at the moment (and AST of 56) …. however I’ve no real way of knowing what these figures were prior to my diabetes diagnoses. Can you suggest if there is there anything I can request from my GP to measure whether this raised ALT level in particular is actually reducing as I lose weight and continue to maintain good blood glucose control ?

During self research online in these past few days, I have stumbled onto the research at http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/di ... versal.htm with great interest (i.e. the findings of particular interest was that people who have had type 2 diabetes for 4 years or less can see reversal when major weight loss occurs). I was delighted to see that the conclusions you had to come to with your research has seemingly mirrored my findings over the last 7 weeks since I was diagnosed. Though in my case, I was not aware of your research and it’s successes during the time I was losing lots of weight.

I am fully determined to continue with the weight loss as I know this will be beneficial in the long run for my all round health, and hopefully to also be beneficial in “my battle” with my Type 2 diabetes.

Please consider including me in any of your future studies / tests with regards this incredible line of research that you are carrying out – I’d be happy to give you more details as / when you need it. My contact details are below in my email signature – please feel free to contact me via any method.

Finally, do you have any further research and / or documents that I could read since you initially did this research? I would dearly love to see any further information that you may have that may help me.

Yours sincerely,

John Fitzpatrick
Email: [email protected]

P.S. How can I convince my GP to prescribe me with home blood glucose strips so that I can monitor my blood glucose levels?  I have been buying the strips myself for my home glucose monitor – but without these I would not have been able to see the results I’ve now gotten??
 

wodey

Newbie
Messages
1
I had my 8th annual review yesterday and am now in the "resolved" group. HbA1c is 39 - Yay. It has taken some time but two years ago I decided to try to lose weight and over that period lost 23kg. Last year I was only borderline (HbA1c 41). Amazingly, despite a really dreadful six months dietwise, all is good. I never thought I would get this far as ALL my grandparents, both my parents and my brother were/are diabetic so I seemed doomed. Not true. I still have some way to go as the diabetic nurse wants my waistline back in the green zone (I think that is under 31 inches) and I am a true apple shape. At 64, it's hard to go to the gym etc but I'll give it a whirl. This time next year I hope to get a gold star at my annual review.

Hope you manage to reverse too. It can be done.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
wodey said:
I had my 8th annual review yesterday and am now in the "resolved" group. HbA1c is 39 - Yay. It has taken some time but two years ago I decided to try to lose weight and over that period lost 23kg. Last year I was only borderline (HbA1c 41). Amazingly, despite a really dreadful six months dietwise, all is good. I never thought I would get this far as ALL my grandparents, both my parents and my brother were/are diabetic so I seemed doomed. Not true. I still have some way to go as the diabetic nurse wants my waistline back in the green zone (I think that is under 31 inches) and I am a true apple shape. At 64, it's hard to go to the gym etc but I'll give it a whirl. This time next year I hope to get a gold star at my annual review.

Hope you manage to reverse too. It can be done.

What were your 8 annual reviews for?
 

viviennem

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,140
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Football. Bad manners.
Well done Wodey! :D

Gezzathorpe, we are all supposed to be reviewed annually. I assume Wodey has been diagnosed with the beast for 8 years?

As a Type 2, I have my eyes checked for retinopathy and the pulses/nerve reactions tested in my feet and lower legs. Then I have blood tests for HbA1c, lipid profile (cholesterol), urea & electrolytes (for kidney function I think), liver function, full blood count, thyroid function and blood haematinic levels which includes vitamin B12 as I'm on metformin. All tests done/blood taken in my local surgery - even the retinopathy screening is peripatetic and visits regularly. All the samples go off to the lab and are back within the week.

I get HbA1c and cholesterol done pretty well whenever I want them - currently every 4 months, down from every 3 months. But the major screening is done once a year, on the annniversary of me finally admiting to being diabetic (another story! :wink: ).

If anyone out there isn't getting these tests done, you should ask for them. They're all critical to our continuing healthy life.

Viv 8)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
viviennem said:
Well done Wodey! :D

Gezzathorpe, we are all supposed to be reviewed annually. I assume Wodey has been diagnosed with the beast for 8 years?

As a Type 2, I have my eyes checked for retinopathy and the pulses/nerve reactions tested in my feet and lower legs. Then I have blood tests for HbA1c, lipid profile (cholesterol), urea & electrolytes (for kidney function I think), liver function, full blood count, thyroid function and blood haematinic levels which includes vitamin B12 as I'm on metformin. All tests done/blood taken in my local surgery - even the retinopathy screening is peripatetic and visits regularly. All the samples go off to the lab and are back within the week.

I get HbA1c and cholesterol done pretty well whenever I want them - currently every 4 months, down from every 3 months. But the major screening is done once a year, on the annniversary of me finally admiting to being diabetic (another story! :wink: ).

If anyone out there isn't getting these tests done, you should ask for them. They're all critical to our continuing healthy life.

Viv 8)

I would imagine that Wodey can speak for herself and may not appreciate you thinking that she can't. I never interpret what people say, I read what is written and go by that. It's a policy that works for me as I can always refer to what was actually said, rather than what someone 'really' meant to say. This supposed to be a forum not just one person answering for everyone else.

Perhaps, on Wodey's behalf, you can explain she updated their HbA1C reading to the current one but still shows their years diagnosed as 1. You would probably say, on their behalf, that is a mistake, an oversight or she was in a rush. Clever you!
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
wodey said:
I still have some way to go as the diabetic nurse wants my waistline back in the green zone (I think that is under 31 inches) and I am a true apple shape. At 64, it's hard to go to the gym etc but I'll give it a whirl. This time next year I hope to get a gold star at my annual review.

I have a rower and an exercise bike at home as I really can't be doing with fashion concious fitness centres. Nonetheless, exercise for exercise's sake can be a bit boring and if being with other people helps motivate you, it may be worth a go.

However, I've started walking in the countryside and have been very surprised by the number of individuals and groups of people, of around our age, who are out and about. I also supplement my exercise routines with work in the garden. Every little helps. And of course, it's a lot cheaper than going to the gym.

If you are able to go walking, you may like this website, http://www.walkingenglishman.com which has many free walks with photos and maps. I am still at the stage where I am totally whacked the day after, but my recovery period is getting less and less each time. I couldn't go for a walk around the neighbourhood even though there is a lot of countryside, it would seem too much like hard work. Some new ground however, always seems somehow, less tiring.
 

master mouse

Active Member
Messages
32
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
rude people, state the country is now in, and how diabetes is monitored..
when I was first diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic I followed a diet control,this enabled me to keep the diabetes under control, and i had a blood test and was told I was no longer classed as a diabetic.About a year later I had classic diabetes symptoms and a blood test was taken again with the result being 24. So not only was I back as a diabetic but it had returned and I no longer could control it with diet I had to have drugs (metaformin and glicicide). Now ten years later I am on insulin and drugs so it does annoy me when people say they can reverse diabets and cure it, as no you cannot, and once a diabetic you will always be.The recent tv programmes claiming to cure diabetes by diet well those people will find out the hard way like I had to. :cry:
 

Mongoose39uk

Well-Known Member
Messages
495
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Sprouts
Master mouse just because it did not work for you does not mean it will not work for everyone.

There are people from the original study (Newcastle diet) who have outed themselves and claim to be medication free and have blood glucose levels in the normal range. They are not one year in they are several years in

I have read somewhere that there has now been a follow up study on the Newcastle diet and that the results will be published later this year.

Yes it was a small sample and it does need more follow up I think.

However, for me if it improves, reverses, cures whatever you want to call it for even 1 in 10 people it is something worth looking at.

I am currently giving it a crack. Eight weeks and 15% lighter is the target. What will it cost me apart from a few new clothes?

I didn't enter into my attempt lightly, I put aside time and read and re read everything I could find on the Newcastle Diet, good and bad.

I would say you have to have a tendency to be a bit obsessive to give it a go.
 

viviennem

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,140
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Football. Bad manners.
gezzathorpe said:
viviennem said:
Well done Wodey! :D

Gezzathorpe, we are all supposed to be reviewed annually. I assume Wodey has been diagnosed with the beast for 8 years?

As a Type 2, I have my eyes checked for retinopathy and the pulses/nerve reactions tested in my feet and lower legs. Then I have blood tests for HbA1c, lipid profile (cholesterol), urea & electrolytes (for kidney function I think), liver function, full blood count, thyroid function and blood haematinic levels which includes vitamin B12 as I'm on metformin. All tests done/blood taken in my local surgery - even the retinopathy screening is peripatetic and visits regularly. All the samples go off to the lab and are back within the week.

I get HbA1c and cholesterol done pretty well whenever I want them - currently every 4 months, down from every 3 months. But the major screening is done once a year, on the annniversary of me finally admiting to being diabetic (another story! :wink: ).

If anyone out there isn't getting these tests done, you should ask for them. They're all critical to our continuing healthy life.

Viv 8)

I would imagine that Wodey can speak for herself and may not appreciate you thinking that she can't. I never interpret what people say, I read what is written and go by that. It's a policy that works for me as I can always refer to what was actually said, rather than what someone 'really' meant to say. This supposed to be a forum not just one person answering for everyone else.

Perhaps, on Wodey's behalf, you can explain she updated their HbA1C reading to the current one but still shows their years diagnosed as 1. You would probably say, on their behalf, that is a mistake, an oversight or she was in a rush. Clever you!


I am really sorry to have upset you so much, Gezzathorpe.

You may not have noticed that I put a query after my assumption of 8 years, meaning I knew I could be wrong and expecting a correction from Wodey if I was.

I was uncertain if I was missing a joke in your response to Wodey, but I decided to go ahead with my reply just because this is a forum. I know from previous experience and numerous posts on here that there are many people, particularly Type 2s, out there who don't get the excellent care that I do. Also that there are quite a number of us who never go for their annual reviews even when asked! It's always worth repeating what we should be getting.

Again, apologies for upsetting you. No offence was intended.

Viv 8)
 

lrw60

Well-Known Member
Messages
369
Dislikes
salads, meat, being bored
master mouse said:
when I was first diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic I followed a diet control,this enabled me to keep the diabetes under control, and i had a blood test and was told I was no longer classed as a diabetic.About a year later I had classic diabetes symptoms and a blood test was taken again with the result being 24. So not only was I back as a diabetic but it had returned and I no longer could control it with diet I had to have drugs (metaformin and glicicide). Now ten years later I am on insulin and drugs so it does annoy me when people say they can reverse diabets and cure it, as no you cannot, and once a diabetic you will always be.The recent tv programmes claiming to cure diabetes by diet well those people will find out the hard way like I had to. :cry:

That's interesting. I lost the need for meds last September, so my first year is coming up soon. I must admit that when I was given the all clear my diet changed a bit, but I didn't go over the top, did you change the way you ate?
I have resumed random testing, but I think I will have to sort out exactly how I will test to see how my new diet is working. My last blood test results are below. Thanks for posting this, every bit of information helps.
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,661
Hi guys,
What I have come to realize is that some of us can get our HbA1c down below the diabetic datum by diet without medication but this does not mean one is cured.

Perhaps you could enlighten me, please, can these cured individuals pass a glucose tolerance test with flying colours and then perform the test equally well for the next five years?

With cancer most don't talk about cures, they talk about 5 year and 10 year survival.

I hope with diabetes it is not the same and some are cured by the Newcastle diet.
regards
Derek
Derek
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
lindisfel said:
Hi guys,
What I have come to realize is that some of us can get our HbA1c down below the diabetic datum by diet without medication but this does not mean one is cured.

This is correct and it highlights one of the difficulties that we as members of the public face. We are dignosed on the basis of an HBA1c test for example, but we require more than an HBA1c test to be certified free. The rub is, they won't test to see if we are 'cured'.

The Counterpoint study did more than just test fasting blood glucose levels. They also tested things like Hepatic Glucose Production, Hepatic Triglyceride Content, HBA1c, Plasma Insulin levels and Insulin Section rate. When levels fell within the normal range, reversal was pronounced. But, this was a scientific study. I doubt I'd be even offered an OGTT, so I'll never know for sure.

On the other hand, that's perhaps not a bad thing. I wouldn't want to slip into old bad habits and, because some of my beta cell mass will be permanently damaged, I will always be at risk of developing diabetes again. I don't want to push it. I've found a diet that I enjoy, I can lose more weight and will get on with my life. But, I have to be careful because I don't know for sure what would tip me back over the edge.
 

mpprh

Active Member
Messages
31
I have lost 26kg (around 4 stone) over 18 months. My fasting blood sugar reduced and over this time I went from 3 X 500mg metformine to two, then one. I have now been off medication for 16 days. The fasting glucose readings have been :

mardi 6 août 2013 81
mercredi 7 août 2013 90
jeudi 8 août 2013 93
vendredi 9 août 2013 82
samedi 10 août 2013 89
dimanche 11 août 2013 90
lundi 12 août 2013 92
mardi 13 août 2013 88
mercredi 14 août 2013 91
jeudi 15 août 2013 95
vendredi 16 août 2013 90
samedi 17 août 2013 96
dimanche 18 août 2013 81
lundi 19 août 2013 89
mardi 20 août 2013 91
mercredi 21 août 2013 90

My HBA1c has been around 5.3 for the last 12 months.

n.b. 90 mg/dl = 5 mmol/l

The key is to continue to maintain a healthy diet and frequently monitor the readings ?
 

375lindyloo

Active Member
Messages
44
Hi Donquinn
I was diagnosed in 2008 with a bg reading over 12. I was put on simvastatin and Metformin. After about 12 months I took myself off these as I was really ill-had no energy and weak. Doc called me in as I hadn't been getting prescriptions and thereby followed a long spell of nori monitoring my liver function which was scarily high. Have been off tablets until recently when doc tried statins again. Liver function tests became ridiculously high and was told to stop statin. I have tried Newcastle diet and lost weight on this and then tried low carb and lost more. My latest half yearly test results have amazingly resulted in an overal 5.8 which my doctor says puts me in the non diabetic range. After initially being thrilled to bits I am now rather scared as I believe I am still diabetic and while I am being monitored for the next year if my levels stay the same I will no longer be monitored or have retinopathy or chiropody. My doctor has cancelled my lancets and test strips as he says I will no longer need them. My jubilation has turned to panic as I don't believe diabetes can be cured and fear I will be left out on a limb. Don't know if anyone is in the same situation but it is scary.