Hello. I`m reversed t2 fighter :)

[princeasl]

Hello.
I`ve been diagnosed about 10 years ago. From about 6 years I`m free withut any drug or insuline. My Hba1C is under diabetes level and my BG is fully normal
I was shocked when doctor said that I`m T2. I was over 120kg. Nobody can help me with my 17mmol in the morning. So I`ve started to learn everything what I can and made many of qualifications and curses (diabetic educator). I`ve leaved my job and start to work with diabetes
So that`s my 10 years of T2 story.

Very happy for you, I have given up, my feet are useless and I am depressed, next step death! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Winnie53]

@rafalnejman welcome to the forum. I enjoyed reading your success story!

It's been my experience that we each have to find what works best for us. Losing weight and managing blood glucose levels are both challenging.

Just to be clear, the LCHF diet is not a high protein diet, it's a moderate protein diet, and depending whose opinion you read, low carb ranges from less than 20 g to 150 g a day.

I eat 50 carbs a day. Last A1c was 5.4%

As for the fat, if I don't include healthy fats with all meals I can't get all the calories that my body needs eating a nutrient dense, whole foods diet of 50 g of carbohydrates a day, but what I eat isn't that different from what I ate most of my life regarding fats. I mostly just switched from eating unhealthy omega-6 seed oils to eating healthy fats (eliminated most sugar and starches, and greatly increased my intake of non-starchy vegetables).

Breakfast is a ounce of butter from grass fed cows, an 1 1/2 ounces of cheese from grass fed cows, an egg from a free range chicken (and 2 cups of vegetables); lunch is a low carb soup, or leafy greens, red cabbage, carrots, tomato, and raw nuts with a vinaigrette dressing of 2 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil, 1 tablespoon apple cider vinegar, and spices, or a tuna or chicken salad with lots of mayonnaise made with avocado oil with a side of raw vegetables; dinner is animal protein from animals that are fed their natural diet and with a side of lots of steamed or sauted vegetables with a butter. I end each meal with an ounce of fresh or frozen fruit and black or green tea.

I hope you haven't eliminated fat from your diet completely. We all vary in our dietary needs, but I believe most of us need some healthy fats, particularly when eating low carb.

 

[rafalnejman]

Oh no Fats`re extremally needed

I`ve about 1g Fats per 1kg weight. Mixed half to half saturated and nonsaturated (olive oil. flax oil and sht like that)
Now I`m eating about 200g carbs per day which is connected with my activity needs.

On the start the lower level in my practice is 100g carbs and max 20g per meal if before BG is higher that kidney level.

Important is that during the diet continuation BG is going to be lower and lower on the same level of carbs and if it goes to lower norm I`m adding for example 10g carbs per meal or swich carbs from last meal and put them earlier

 

[Winnie53]

@rafalnejman Sounds like you're utilizing a healthy, whole foods diet. Can't go wrong there if it's working for you and your clients. I think I'm understanding most of what you're conveying here, but am stumped by what is meant by "kidney level".

Perhaps you're using your phone to post here?

 

[AloeSvea]

@rafalnejman w

Just to be clear, the LCHF diet is not a high protein diet, it's a moderate protein diet, and depending whose opinion you read, low carb ranges from less than 20 g to 150 g a day.

I eat 50 carbs a day. Last A1c was 5.4%

We all vary in our dietary needs, but I believe most of us need some healthy fats, particularly when eating low carb.

Hi @Winnie53. I really like what you say about your carb level and eating some healthy fats.

But, I can't help but note, and add, that I have NEVER seen any 'low carb' reckoning, in a LCHF diet at up to 150 g of carbs a day. That looks far more like a paleo diet to me? (which can be good for diabetics, who have a high tolerance of protein? I have never had as wonderfully healthy blood lipids , apart from the HBA1c, lol, as when I have done completely paleo months.).

Anyway - back to LCHF which is what I have been eating for a couple of years now. In order to healthily high fat, you really do need to be 'properly' low carbing. And 'proper' low carbing, I would say, is up to about 50g - and that 50g is high end low carbing! ie border line moderate carbing (which would be up to 150-200 g of carbs a day, I recently reassured my moderate carbing daughter.)

Please - anyone jump in and correct me because I am plodding around here in my big LCHF boots and not citing where I get this info (I guess I need to research this in the weekend?) But I am basically talking Phinney and Volek, Dr Dahlkvist, Dr Eenfeldt (diet doctor), health writers and diabetic doctos Dr Wartman, Dr Michael Mosley (MM under the blood sugar diet and mediterranean diet rubrik), and diabetic sports and health writer Prof Tim Noakes, and Kiwi LCHFers Prof Grant Schofield and new-Kiwi dietician Dr Caryn Zinn. (Numbers aren't my thing, so I may not be remembering the gram numbers correctly),

But my understanding after heaps of reading in my perhaps dodgey memory is - LC is up to about 30g a day. 50g upper limit.

Very very low carb is 20g and under, which some champion LCHFers do. (I am not an LCHF champion. I go up to about 30g a day, normally, even as a severely carb intolerant person. Which I am.) (Can't keep my hands off stevia sweetened milk chocolate!) (And too many blueberries.) (On a too many blueberry day with half an apple it probably is over 50g of carbs.)

 

[Ian_Laye]

I've been following a low carb routine normally 30g carbs per day and am having average fasting BG of 4.5mmol, but as an experiment I had 2 sandwiches totalling 44g carbs for dinner and 2hrs after BG was 4.8mmol so I am convinced that I am no longer carb intolerant.

 

[pleinster]

I've been following a low carb routine normally 30g carbs per day and am having average fasting BG of 4.5mmol, but as an experiment I had 2 sandwiches totalling 44g carbs for dinner and 2hrs after BG was 4.8mmol so I am convinced that I am no longer carb intolerant.

I'm delighted that you are "in remission". I've been given that label too by a consultant I see, and my HbA1c levels have continually dropped. I like the term "carb intolerant" and use it myself as a description for Type 2 diabetes (in the main)..and I really hope you are past that as an issue. That said, while applauding your efforts and your success, I would hesitate to concur based on one sandwich experiment. Good numbers certainly...but I would expect that if you simply went back to normal carbohydrate intake the signs of that intolerance would resurface in a quite a short time. I am happy for you but don't allow complacency to sneak in and set you back. Good luck.

 

[Winnie53]

Hi @Winnie53. I really like what you say about your carb level and eating some healthy fats.

But, I can't help but note, and add, that I have NEVER seen any 'low carb' reckoning, in a LCHF diet at up to 150 g of carbs a day. That looks far more like a paleo diet to me? (which can be good for diabetics, who have a high tolerance of protein? I have never had as wonderfully healthy blood lipids , apart from the HBA1c, lol, as when I have done completely paleo months.).

Anyway - back to LCHF which is what I have been eating for a couple of years now. In order to healthily high fat, you really do need to be 'properly' low carbing. And 'proper' low carbing, I would say, is up to about 50g - and that 50g is high end low carbing! ie border line moderate carbing (which would be up to 150-200 g of carbs a day, I recently reassured my moderate carbing daughter.)

Please - anyone jump in and correct me because I am plodding around here in my big LCHF boots and not citing where I get this info (I guess I need to research this in the weekend?) But I am basically talking Phinney and Volek, Dr Dahlkvist, Dr Eenfeldt (diet doctor), health writers and diabetic doctos Dr Wartman, Dr Michael Mosley (MM under the blood sugar diet and mediterranean diet rubrik), and diabetic sports and health writer Prof Tim Noakes, and Kiwi LCHFers Prof Grant Schofield and new-Kiwi dietician Dr Caryn Zinn. (Numbers aren't my thing, so I may not be remembering the gram numbers correctly),

But my understanding after heaps of reading in my perhaps dodgey memory is - LC is up to about 30g a day. 50g upper limit.

Very very low carb is 20g and under, which some champion LCHFers do. (I am not an LCHF champion. I go up to about 30g a day, normally, even as a severely carb intolerant person. Which I am.) (Can't keep my hands off stevia sweetened milk chocolate!) (And too many blueberries.) (On a too many blueberry day with half an apple it probably is over 50g of carbs.)

@AloeSvea I think perhaps we're talking about two different diets, though there is some over lap between the two. The upper limit of the ketogenic diet (Volek, Phinney) is 50 g; the upper limit of the low carbohydrate high fat diet varies - (opinions on this varies wildly depending on who you quote) - but is no higher than 150 g.

For the most part, we all need to eat some healthy fats, but the amount is much less at the high end of low carb range. You're quite right when you state that it's not healthy to eat to eat high carb and high fat.

So if carb intake is adjusted up, fat should be adjusted down. If carb intake is adjusted down, fat should be adjusted up. I think of the three macronutrients as a see-saw with protein in the middle, and unchanging, with carbs on one end, fat on the other.

Hope that clarifies...

Let me know if it doesn't so I can provide additional detail...

 

[Winnie53]

I've been following a low carb routine normally 30g carbs per day and am having average fasting BG of 4.5mmol, but as an experiment I had 2 sandwiches totalling 44g carbs for dinner and 2hrs after BG was 4.8mmol so I am convinced that I am no longer carb intolerant.

That would be so great if you became carb tolerant again! I've been at this for almost 2 1/2 years. I'm somewhat more carb tolerant now, but have a long, long way to go. Hoping if I can lose that remaining 20 - 40 pounds of excess weight, I too will become carb tolerant again. That said, I don't think I'd change my diet much. I like the way I eat now.

 

[Ian_Laye]

That would be so great if you became carb tolerant again! I've been at this for almost 2 1/2 years. I'm somewhat more carb tolerant now, but have a long, long way to go. Hoping if I can lose that remaining 20 - 40 pounds of excess weight, I too will become carb tolerant again. That said, I don't think I'd change my diet much. I like the way I eat now.

I intend to stick with my existing diet but am now not scared of having the odd treat when I go out for an occasional meal with my wife. Following the LC diet I lost just over 7st but have now plateaued at approx. 16st.

 

[Resurgam]

I think that your definition of low carb is a little strict with a cut off at 50 gm, as in my younger days I used to be able to lose 2 Kg a week and eat up to 80 gm of carb, but I had a low resistance to weight loss back then, even though I had to restart the way of eating several times - my doctors went ballistic about eating so dangerously!!!
Dr Atkins considered that up to 90 gm of carbs, if eaten by someone who exercised regularly could still be considered low carbing on his diet.

 

[Winnie53]

I intend to stick with my existing diet but am now not scared of having the odd treat when I go out for an occasional meal with my wife. Following the LC diet I lost just over 7st but have now plateaued at approx. 16st.

I think that's wonderful. When I first started eating low carb, I too was strict about it and lost weight. I'm no longer losing weight, but I'm not gaining either. Eventually I'll want to lose more weight, but not at the moment. I enjoy having a small treat a few times a week. For me, monitoring helps me maintain what I've achieved these last few years. That and a brisk walk as needed. Congrats on achieving your goals.

 

[Brunneria]

Unfortunately there is no concensus on the 'twue' number of carb grams in a LC way of eating.

Some people seem to think that it is under 20g, or 50g or is anything below 130-150g carbs a day, and it is an ongoing debate.

The Low Carb Programme here on Diabetes.co.uk classes low carbing at starting at 130g carbs or below, with everyone recommended to find their own level to suit their body.

Personally, I try and distinguish between Low Carbing (below 130g) and Ketogenic (below 50g a day).

 

[ringi]

I've been following a low carb routine normally 30g carbs per day and am having average fasting BG of 4.5mmol, but as an experiment I had 2 sandwiches totalling 44g carbs for dinner and 2hrs after BG was 4.8mmol so I am convinced that I am no longer carb intolerant.

The problem is that our liver can quickly store BG and hence reduce our BG level, but only when the liver has space to store the BG, fasting and low carb can make this space. Hence just because we can eat one meal with high carbs, it does not tell us if our bodies can cope with many high curb meal and finding out could require many weeks of corrective action.

So the concept of "eating to our meters" may not be a good ideal once we start to get our BG under control, our meters tells us what we can't eat, but may not be a good indicator of how far we can "push it".

 

[AloeSvea]

Well, blow me down! I had no idea I AM keto already. I always reckoned I would have to kick the stevia sweetened chocolate and the blueberries the odd half apple and my very portion controlled once a week starchy veg. (Still brings me in around the 50g mark.) I'll have to stop saying LCHF and say keto then. Having an identity crisis here .

 

[AloeSvea]

That would be so great if you became carb tolerant again! I've been at this for almost 2 1/2 years. I'm somewhat more carb tolerant now, but have a long, long way to go. Hoping if I can lose that remaining 20 - 40 pounds of excess weight, I too will become carb tolerant again. That said, I don't think I'd change my diet much. I like the way I eat now.

This may be a food environment-country difference thing, or my understanding of T2D is just way off (I don't really think it is way off) but unless one has medically induced T2 diabetes, or T2D caused by something in particular not the food environment/diet, or a food allergy such as gluten? (if that is the right way of expressing it) then if one has (or have had) T2D one has some degree of carbohydrate intolerance.

Or, at the very least - a big first response to blood glucose with a lot of insulin (which is really saying the same thing, as it is a lovely duo, at least in my understanding.) (We all appreciate the duo here? as our glucose-insulin partnership has overstepped the mark into dysfunction.)

I do not see how you can have the common garden variety of blood glucose dysfunction (ie prediabetes to T2D) and NOT have carbohydrate intolerance, if your T2D was caused by your very own personal level of 'too high' blood glucose (and insulin).

I also see carbohydrate tolerance as akin to a body type. That ol' tendency to central obesity or fat on the organs if one is a TOFI. Or one is just one of the lucky 20% of people who can store a lot of fat and not get really sick (CVDs, strokes, T2D, some types of cancers). Your forebears and you, in other words, just are a lot healthier from environment-induced diseases and dysfunctions as slender, or at least - without too much body-fat on your organs.

Body types, and how you store excess carbs and energy, do not, does not change. When reversing or treating or whatever you want to call it - aren't you finding out your personal carb tolerance level and not overstepping it again? Due to a supreme consciousness?

(Please note 'supreme consciousness' is meant as a jokey way, hence smiley, to talk about what basically defines my eating life! ie carb consciousness. Is NOT meant as a spiritual statement.)

 

[ringi]

Well, blow me down! I had no idea I AM keto already. I always reckoned I would have to kick the stevia sweetened chocolate and the blueberries the odd half apple and my very portion controlled once a week starchy veg. (Still brings me in around the 50g mark.) I'll have to stop saying LCHF and say keto then. Having an identity crisis here .

I think people have some keto even at the 100g mark, more if there are many hours in the day without carbs, even more if physical activity is done in these hours. (If you walked 40 miles in a day, I think you would get some keto even on 300g carbs.)

 

[pleinster]

This may be a food environment-country difference thing, or my understanding of T2D is just way off (I don't really think it is way off) but unless one has medically induced T2 diabetes, or T2D caused by something in particular not the food environment/diet, or a food allergy such as gluten? (if that is the right way of expressing it) then if one has (or have had) T2D one has some degree of carbohydrate intolerance.

Or, at the very least - a big first response to blood glucose with a lot of insulin (which is really saying the same thing, as it is a lovely duo, at least in my understanding.) (We all appreciate the duo here? as our glucose-insulin partnership has overstepped the mark into dysfunction.)

I do not see how you can have the common garden variety of blood glucose dysfunction (ie prediabetes to T2D) and NOT have carbohydrate intolerance, if your T2D was caused by your very own personal level of 'too high' blood glucose (and insulin).

I also see carbohydrate tolerance as akin to a body type. That ol' tendency to central obesity or fat on the organs if one is a TOFI. Or one is just one of the lucky 20% of people who can store a lot of fat and not get really sick (CVDs, strokes, T2D, some types of cancers). Your forebears and you, in other words, just are a lot healthier from environment-induced diseases and dysfunctions as slender, or at least - without too much body-fat on your organs.

Body types, and how you store excess carbs and energy, do not, does not change. When reversing or treating or whatever you want to call it - aren't you finding out your personal carb tolerance level and not overstepping it again? Due to a supreme consciousness?

(Please note 'supreme consciousness' is meant as a jokey way, hence smiley, to talk about what basically defines my eating life! ie carb consciousness. Is NOT meant as a spiritual statement.)

I'd agree. I would add to that...my diabetes is steroid induced, but I would accept that the changes it caused simply made me more intolerant of carbs. Not eating as many carbs is what dunts it in the right direction temporarily and this can be maintained so long as I recognise the need to eat accordingly. I know it is a bit simplistic, but to me Type 2 is carbohydrate intolerance. It may well be the case that human beings built up a carbohydrate tolerance around the early neolithic period with the advent of early agriculture and with produce such as grain. This Type 2 business is maybe a more mesolithic state of being...when we hunted for our low carb grub and didn't have food manufacturers to promote and sell us all kinds of rubbish. Oops..I'm off on one.

 

[grante]

I have recently been diagnosed type 2. can I reverse this

There's every chance you can but the decision and determination has to come from you. Only you have the power to change it. Ive changed and after 2 months lowered my hva1c drastically

First months was with high BG on extremlally low kalories diet. There was a lot of situations when I was almost fallen in depssion because when I was thinking that BG will be low results was complettely different. I`ve checked almost all cosmic suplements and advices and made decision to buy medical books. I`ve started to learn about hormones, metabolism and all connected issues. I took a paper card and start to draw and start to search for optimal meals construction. There was a lot of mistakes. Low carb diets was fine but for a short time, Fast overweight lossing was fine also for short term. High protein diet could be dangerous for kidneys. So I was learning and managing my blood glucose down with a small steps (max. level of carbs whih can give me an energy and power and BG was acceptable) I`ve started to managing meals that every day levels of nutrientds was repeatable (in different kind of meals). After first 3 months of success I`made hba and other blood check and asked my diab to live one of three metphormins. Diab says that we can try. After next 3 months I`ve leaved second and change third for long methformin (xr). Next hba was ideal and then we leaved drugs. After few years without drugs my friend get t2 diagnose and we`ve started to work with him and he made it also and there was a time when I`ve started to work with other t2

I`ve discovered that there have to be more than one level of kcal. Everything should be conected with level of BG and fat losing should be max 1kg per week or less. I`ve made -30kg and there was a long stop. Then I`ve discovered that I can load more nutriends and my organism is loading witamins and minerals and after that I cutted some kcal and finnaly I catch 77kg

I know that`s a bit to short written but I`m trying to show how it looks

 

[Brunneria]

I think people have some keto even at the 100g mark, more if there are many hours in the day without carbs, even more if physical activity is done in these hours. (If you walked 40 miles in a day, I think you would get some keto even on 300g carbs.)

Totally agree.
If the fuel intake (from protein and carbs) is less than the fuel used, then the body is going to breakdown fat (dietary or from fat storage) to make up the deficit. We also often dip into ketogenesis overnight if the gap between yesterday's food and today's food is long enough. Although this does work alongside glycogen stores in the liver and muscles so the conditions vary a lot.