Help, guidance & honest advice required please

[2154]

Hello

Background
Over the last year or so I began getting lower back pain around the Sacroiliac joint and realised I had to do something about my weight. At the time (July 2021), I was 19 stone 6, but didn't really have any issues or illnesses. I decided apart from physio to help this issue, I was going to lose weight too. I reduced my intake of food greatly and as time went on i want always hungry when I got up so didn't have first meal until lunch, where I had fruit or light snack and main meal about 6pm (2 veg, potatoes & a main) for example. by December 2021 I had reduced my weight to 16 stone 3 and I look loads better and felt good about the way I look physically. Over the last 3 weeks I haven't felt right, slight tinnitus in left ear, then stomach pains around the belly button which felt tender to the touch for about 20 mins then would go off. i then noticed a very light tingling in my toes and fingers on a couple of occasions, but only occasionally. I've been to the doctor a couple of times with these issues and he did all the blood tests (HBA1C included) and said they all came back in the normal range. Trying to read things myself to look for the issue/answers so i can try to address it, as getting to see a Doctor at the minute is a nightmare, I thought my symptoms sounded similar to that of a person with pre-diabetes or diabetes.

I borrowed an AgaMatrix Wavesence Jazz and carried out tests yesterday first thing in the morning (no food) and it showed 8.3, which I realise is outside the normal range, later yesterday after food (2 hours) it tested 7.9. this morning (no food) it is 7.4. These all seem high to me.

Questions/Advice required
Am I now diabetic?
Am I now Pre-diabetic?
Are these levels correctable (now found) if I continue weight loss/exercise/food changes?
Can stress or other issues cause these high readings (which I'm still being checked for) or only Diabetes?

I really do not want to be diagnosed as diabetic and be medication dependent, unless i really have to (as I am sure none of you did) but I believe your wealth of knowledge/experience as people dealing with this issue, you may know some of my answers form your experience. If I can revers these readings with immediate change, which I am happy to do, I want to try.

I don't want to report this to my Doctor immediately, I want to try to self manage for two weeks to see if I can make these changes and reverse things. Are my readings to high or dangerous to wait two weeks, or would two weeks make very little difference.

I am not asking medical advice, just your advice from your experiences as people like me or living with diabetes. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read my thread and help me.

 

[KennyA]

Hello



Questions/Advice required
Am I now diabetic?
Am I now Pre-diabetic?
Are these levels correctable (now found) if I continue weight loss/exercise/food changes?
Can stress or other issues cause these high readings (which I'm still being checked for) or only Diabetes?

I really do not want to be diagnosed as diabetic and be medication dependent, unless i really have to (as I am sure none of you did) but I believe your wealth of knowledge/experience as people dealing with this issue, you may know some of my answers form your experience. If I can revers these readings with immediate change, which I am happy to do, I want to try.

I don't want to report this to my Doctor immediately, I want to try to self manage for two weeks to see if I can make these changes and reverse things. Are my readings to high or dangerous to wait two weeks, or would two weeks make very little difference.

I am not asking medical advice, just your advice from your experiences as people like me or living with diabetes. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read my thread and help me.

Hi, welcome to the forum. If you can avoid being formally diagnosed, that (in my opinion) would be a good thing. The label doesn't go away and can affect things like life insurance. Being diagnosed does not mean being on medication - I've never had any diabetic medication.

Your levels are a little high, but many have started with much worse. The high morning reading might be high because of a thing called dawn phenomenon, where you liver dumps a load of glucose into the blood to get you ready for the day. Readings of 7ish after food are (much) higher than I would accept and I would look for the source, which would be carb in whatever I had eaten. Testing before and after food using your own meter would help but there isn't a direct read-across from the fingerprick reading to the HbA1c. The A1c is a sort of "rolling average" of the last three months. The fingerprick tells you what is going on at the moment.

I can't tell you if you are diabetic/pre-diabetic, whatever. These are judgements made by your health care system based on your HbA1c result. Over 48 is diabetic, under 48 isn't, as far as the medics are concerned, no matter what else is going on. You don't have to be at formal diagnosis BG levels to be causing damage to yourself, either. Have a look at my blog for the symptoms I had before I was at diagnostic levels. What you are reporting (tingling etc) could be diabetic symptoms, but might not be. I can't tell and neither can anyone else here.

Blood glucose levels can be reduced fairly easily and quickly through a low-carb diet. I got mine back to normal levels in three months by limiting carb intake to ~20g/day, didn't bother with calories. What you report eating (potatoes, fruit) would be no good for me (and many others) in terms of the impact on BG. You've done well so far and can probably see this through. Two weeks is probably not long enough to see results. Two to three months should see benefits.

Best of luck, this is achievable.

 

[2154]

I appreciate you taking time out of your day to reply to my thread. I take note of all that you write. In your personal opinion based on your experiences. Should I try to correct my own blood sugars first, or do you think its too advanced at 7.3 and I need medical intervention immediately. As I really do want to avoid a formal diagnosis

 

[KennyA]

I appreciate you taking time out of your day to reply to my thread. I take note of all that you write. In your personal opinion based on your experiences. Should I try to correct my own blood sugars first, or do you think its too advanced at 7.3 and I need medical intervention immediately. As I really do want to avoid a formal diagnosis

I absolutely do not think "it's too advanced at 7.3". That reading is only just out of normal range and I could easily trigger a reading like that for myself by having a couple of glasses of orange juice, or some chips, or some pastry, or a glass of hot milk. My after meal reading last night was 6.2, and might have been higher had I tested earlier or later.

If you do go to your doc: your HbA1c will be tested and will either be higher or lower than 48. If it's lower, you wouldn't be prescribed anything anyway as you're officially "not diabetic" : if it's higher, you're diagnosed (probably after a second test) and officially diabetic. If you are only just diabetic, they might advise you to try diet control anyway, without prescribing anything: but that's exactly where you are now.

You have a chance to get your BGs back to normal quickly without the problems of a formal diagnosis. It is entirely possible that what you're experiencing is not diabetic-related but that would become clear in due course. In my opinion it's worth trying the low-carb approach first. You'll get much better advice from many people on here than you're likely to get from the health services.

 

[2154]

Thank you again. I will try to find things that are low carb that can eat and go for 30 mins walk every day initially as I want it all to subside on its own if it can. Obviously I will be prone to it for ever though if I don't change for life. I think its going to be hard, but I have to do it

 

[KennyA]

Thank you again. I will try to find things that are low carb that can eat and go for 30 mins walk every day initially as I want it all to subside on its own if it can. Obviously I will be prone to it for ever though if I don't change for life. I think its going to be hard, but I have to do it

Have a look at https://www.dietdoctor.com. They have a pay-for program (I didn't) but also lots of free information and resources. There's a section on here (the DCUK forum)for food and diet with low carb, keto and carnivore threads.

If you're OK with meat, fish, eggs, cheese/dairy and above ground veg you'll find plenty to eat. The challenge for me was to replace the things I used to use to bulk up my meals with - pasta, rice, potatoes, bread etc. Also beware of anything processed and anything claiming to be "low" or "reduced" sugar. You need to read the labels on things to see exactly how many carbs they have and in what proportion. Something that's got a low proportion of carbs can still deliver a lot if eaten in quantity. 400grams of a 5% carb food adds up to 20g carb, for example.

Exercise is generally recommended. It doesn't do much to affect my own BG but it does make me feel better. Some people report that exercise is really effective in reducing BG.

 

[Ronancastled]

@2154
All I can tell you that my Fasting blood was 7.5 when it was picked up by a yearly blood test.
They normally do a 2nd test within weeks to confirm diagnosis.

I became a saint straight away, hit low carb & walked 30 mins per day.
3 weeks later at my follow test I'd lost a stone in weight & my Fasting Blood was 5.1
It can be rectified rapidly in my experience if you come from a low level & have wiggle room with weight & lifestyle improvements.

Unfortunately I caught the diagnosis as my follow up HbA1c was 48, right on the cutoff point [shakes angry fist]

 

[Mbaker]

Hi @2154 some great advice above. If your HbA1c was relatively recent, it looks like either the sugar sticks to your red blood cells for a relatively short period of time and or you go low as well as high making your average within the normal range.

Ideally you would register around a teaspoon of glucose in your blood stream on waking circa 5.0 mmol/L. As @KennyA has eluded to, we can say what we have done or would do. You are self motivated and your instinct to just get on I applaud.

I lean towards an animal based P.E. Diet / Ketovore way of eating. This prioritises protein at around 30 - 35% of total calories (more if you can stand it). There are other options such as low carb, keto and carnivore which are worth researching or taking inspiration from.

This morning I woke with a 4.2 fasting glucose.

This is my breakfast today (Pork Ribs, home made minced seasoned Turkey Paties, 4 Eggs. Berries, Fromage Fraise (occasionally) 100% dark chocolate, roasted nuts with PB&Me Peanut Butter mashup)

I will eat one more time today, another 2 course meal (maybe 3). Note: no cereal, rice, pasta or potatoes.

I augment this with focused resistance training.

 

[RosemaryJackson]

Wow! There is some great advice there, for me as well as for 2154! Thank you. 2154, you can also look on the 'what have you eaten today' thread. They have some good ideas on there too.

 

[Weejimmy]

Hello

Background
Over the last year or so I began getting lower back pain around the Sacroiliac joint and realised I had to do something about my weight. At the time (July 2021), I was 19 stone 6, but didn't really have any issues or illnesses. I decided apart from physio to help this issue, I was going to lose weight too. I reduced my intake of food greatly and as time went on i want always hungry when I got up so didn't have first meal until lunch, where I had fruit or light snack and main meal about 6pm (2 veg, potatoes & a main) for example. by December 2021 I had reduced my weight to 16 stone 3 and I look loads better and felt good about the way I look physically. Over the last 3 weeks I haven't felt right, slight tinnitus in left ear, then stomach pains around the belly button which felt tender to the touch for about 20 mins then would go off. i then noticed a very light tingling in my toes and fingers on a couple of occasions, but only occasionally. I've been to the doctor a couple of times with these issues and he did all the blood tests (HBA1C included) and said they all came back in the normal range. Trying to read things myself to look for the issue/answers so i can try to address it, as getting to see a Doctor at the minute is a nightmare, I thought my symptoms sounded similar to that of a person with pre-diabetes or diabetes.

I borrowed an AgaMatrix Wavesence Jazz and carried out tests yesterday first thing in the morning (no food) and it showed 8.3, which I realise is outside the normal range, later yesterday after food (2 hours) it tested 7.9. this morning (no food) it is 7.4. These all seem high to me.

Questions/Advice required
Am I now diabetic?
Am I now Pre-diabetic?
Are these levels correctable (now found) if I continue weight loss/exercise/food changes?
Can stress or other issues cause these high readings (which I'm still being checked for) or only Diabetes?

I really do not want to be diagnosed as diabetic and be medication dependent, unless i really have to (as I am sure none of you did) but I believe your wealth of knowledge/experience as people dealing with this issue, you may know some of my answers form your experience. If I can revers these readings with immediate change, which I am happy to do, I want to try.

I don't want to report this to my Doctor immediately, I want to try to self manage for two weeks to see if I can make these changes and reverse things. Are my readings to high or dangerous to wait two weeks, or would two weeks make very little difference.

I am not asking medical advice, just your advice from your experiences as people like me or living with diabetes. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read my thread and help me.

 

[Weejimmy]

Hello fella, you may want to try a B12 supplement. Keep up the good work on your weight loss, remember it took years to get to overweight so take it easy do not give up it may take a couple of years you will succeed.

 

[2154]

Thank you to everyone who has posted. I'm sure you were all apprehensive like me initially. Am I right that going out for a meal or a couple of beers with a friend will never be possible again with 'normal foods' and I will have to eat this (unusual to me) low carb, diet foods, which are totally different to any of the foods I liked before, even when dieting and losing my 3 stone I ate foods I liked, just a lot less. I'm not sure if I just eat when I am hungry (which at the minute isn't often, or do I need to eat 2 or 3 or 4 times a day for the readings to drop.
Is this it for the rest of my life, or once the readings drop can some normality be reintroduced, please feel free to let me have your thoughts.

 

[Lakeslover]

You can go for a meal and eat normal foods, if you check out the menu first, and steer clear of high carb food. So for example steak and veg or salad is absolutely fine. You may find you can eat a few chips, or not, testing your blood sugar will tell you if you can. Any meat/chicken should be fine. Cut out the chips, ask for extra veg instead.

Curry (meat or veg or both) is fine without rice. Again testing will tell you whether you can eat a small portion of rice, naan or onion bhajee…..and only you know if you would have the strength to eat a small portion and leave the rest!

in cafes omelettes are a good choice. A cooked breakfast should be ok without toast/fried bread/hash browns. I have been known to ask for a jacket potato with tuna…..without the jacket, which usually puzzles the waiting staff until they work out its effectively tuna and salad.

swap the beer for low cal mixer and gin or vodka, or red wine?

 

[catinahat]

I think you need to take a large breath,calm down and try not to overthink this. You have had a HbA1c that came back as normal and a couple of finger prick tests higher than you would like . You could contact your Dr and ask what your HbA1c actually is, normal tells you nothing, are you the high end of normal or no where near diabetic levels ? The meter you borrowed, do you know if the strip's have been stored correctly, are they in date ? And are you aware that the standard for accuracy of glucose meters is plus or minus 15% , for 90% of the test's, so the few results you are so worried about could actually have been 15% lower . I think it's probably a little too early to worry about a meal out and a couple of beers

 

[2154]

Thanks again. All noted and absorbed

 

[KennyA]

Am I right that going out for a meal or a couple of beers with a friend will never be possible again with 'normal foods' and I will have to eat this (unusual to me) low carb, diet foods, which are totally different to any of the foods I liked before, even when dieting and losing my 3 stone I ate foods I liked, just a lot less. I'm not sure if I just eat when I am hungry (which at the minute isn't often, or do I need to eat 2 or 3 or 4 times a day for the readings to drop.
Is this it for the rest of my life, or once the readings drop can some normality be reintroduced, please feel free to let me have your thoughts.

I don't think this is right - at least, it's not right for me. I don't eat carb-heavy things - rice, pasta, sugar, fruit, pastry, bread etc. - but when I started low carb, I had had symptoms for ten years and my A1c levels were steadily climbing and without change would have continued.

So - I do have more relaxed meals out maybe once every six weeks. I drink alcohol, but usually swop beer for wine and/or spirits. None of the things I eat are unusual, unless you think something like steak, cheese, cream, chicken, or bacon and eggs is unusual. Nothing I eat would (I think) be thought of as a "diet food". I eat a meal once a day when hungry - why else would you eat otherwise? - with maybe a small amount of salami/olives/cheese at another time if needed.

The thing is your levels are already low, although you haven't said what your A1c reading was - just that it was "normal". Don't panic. You shouldn't need to react as if you had an A1c reading in three figures, as some here have started with. You have already made an impact in your life style and should you trim carbs in what you eat you may see a further impact anyway.