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Help. I'm high.

MCMLXXIII

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,858
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Help please. Last week 3 weeks into the Newcastle Diet I was averaging blood sugars around 5.4
Now I met my daughter on holiday and I had a night on the tiles and the following day and for the last 2 days I've been over 10, even after walking.
I've come home and started to drink loads of water.
I don't feel poorly but I have been sleeping poorly which I accept is due to alcohol and flipping seagulls outside my door.
I stopped meds 2 weeks ago.
What can I do to get back to normal range?
I've had the first of my 2 shakes this morning to get back on the wagon but then sat stationary while I drove for 200 miles.
Thankyou
 
Hi @MCMLXXIII

You have gone back to your ND regime, I see. Good that you don’t feel poorly.
You will have had a bit of a set back, in that you will temporarily have brought yourself out of ketosis. So could take a few days to get back on track with weight loss and BG. In the meantime, stay hydrated, drink plenty of water, walk a bit, keep testing your BG levels, and assess whether you really want to continue with ND.
Oh and forgive yourself, but learn from the experience of a night on the tiles.
 
I think you'll have brought yourself out of ketosis. You'll also have given your liver a bit of a rattle with the alcohol - I find some variation depending on what I drink - and it may well have responded by making a lot more glucose to refill muscle stores.

If you're eating carbs, or have eaten carbs, that will also contribute. After getting on six years mainly in ketosis, I can get it restarted fairly quickly - 48 hrs tops, usually much less. In the first couple of years, though, it could take a week or more to get back in.

Don't panic and use this as a learning experience. It won't be the last time you come out of ketosis. My advice would be to go back to the ND and start again.
 
Also after getting back on the wagon I tested my ketones and there definitely a colour change on the stick so hopefully I can get to normal range soon.
I mean whats the alternative to the Newcastle diet? Avoid Carbs? Vegan? Carnivore? ‍♂️
 
Also after getting back on the wagon I tested my ketones and there definitely a colour change on the stick so hopefully I can get to normal range soon.
I mean whats the alternative to the Newcastle diet? Avoid Carbs? Vegan? Carnivore? ‍♂️
The thing is when the ND finishes, you've got to be doing something long-term anyway.

I've stuck to my way of eating for getting on six years now. It's very low carb/keto - being around 20g carb/day. That keeps me in ketosis pretty much all the time, so I know that a) I'm using (some) body fat for production of the required ~130g/day via my liver and b) if I'm in ketosis it means I'm managing to keep my carb intake where it should be - almost non-existant.

Any diet that keeps carbs very low should "work" in that respect. I am eating some carb, but none of it is coming from the traditional "high carb and eaten in volume" foods like potato, bread, cereals, fruit, sugars, etc. Instead it comes from (usually) things like green veg, onions, tomatoes, etc.

I've nothing against carnivore, and some days (eg yesterday, eggs and gammon) I am pretty much that anyway, but I do like veg along with my meat and I see no need for me to be zero carb. I'm not the person to talk to about vegan, but I think there are/were a couple of forum members who do vegan low carb.
 
I've just tested again through nothing other than drinking a pint of water I'm down to 8.5 so at least I'm moving in the right direction.
The sad thing is it's a timely reminder that I'm Diabetic and can't be frivolous.
 
I've just tested again through nothing other than drinking a pint of water I'm down to 8.5 so at least I'm moving in the right direction.
The sad thing is it's a timely reminder that I'm Diabetic and can't be frivolous.
Unfortunately there are many reminders that high blood glucose is a symptom of the problem, and reducing blood glucose, while it sorts out a lot of problems caused directly by high glucose levels, doesn't of itself resolve the underlying issue.
 
The thing is when the ND finishes, you've got to be doing something long-term anyway.
This is something that a lot of people who attempt the ND fail to grasp, @MCMLXXIII .

It is not particularly clear in the ND literature, either. Without a follow on plan, if you return to your previous eating regime, any progress you have made in weight loss and blood glucose control will be wasted as the benefits will not last.

My own choice has been to adopt low carb diet.
 
Well I was back at 10.this morning and just drank water.
By lunchtime I was down a bit but again 8 too high considering last week I was averaging 5.3.
Staying with it! Definitely acknowledged that low carb has to be a way fires at the end of it, or a 16:8 perhaps. Thankyou all once again.
 
Hello.

So the good (I'm guessing) news is I'm back into Ketosis after a frivolous few days in Whitby.
Looking the referral version of the Newcastle Diet (by your Doctor) I note the shake phase (1) is 3 months whereas in the book and common study this period is 2 months.
Has the advice changed on this?
And may I ask will Ketosis cleanse or clean my fatty liver and pancreas and curb this problem if insulin resistance I'm reading so much about.
Further reading seems to indicate a plant based versus keto approach.
I'm not taking any meds and mid way through week 3 and after coming back from said swaree last week my sugars were in the 10's but in a couple of days I've got that down to 6.1
Any thoughts gratefully received
 
Hi again. There's a bit to unpick here.

First thing is that I don't have any personal knowledge of the Newcastle diet. Their published research wasn't convincing (I think final figures were 8% on sub-48 HbA1cs) and given that it's a short-term intervention you still need to find a sustainable long-term approach.

A "Keto" diet is just a very low carb diet. The thing that differentiates a "keto" approach from a "low carb" approach is the fuel your body is using. If your system switches over (from glucose) to using ketones for fuel, these are made by your liver using stored fat reserves. Some cells need glucose (total demand estimated to be around 130g/day) and the liver will happily make what's needed (again from stored fat) through a process called gluconeogenesis.

For me I went into ketosis on around 20g/day and at first needed to stay there to stay in ketosis. These days my system is a little more adapted to running on ketones and I'll stay in ketosis even if I have a slightly higher carb intake on a single given day.

I found that the fat that went first was the visceral fat in my belly and around my organs. So for ages I wasn't looking much different, but my waist was shrinking and weight was going. I didn't have fatty liver as far as I know. I should say that during this time I was eating what I wanted when I wanted - just almost no carb.

The other benefit of reducing glucose intake is that beta cells in the pancreas get a bit of a break from producing a lot of insulin, and as levels of insulin in the body falls the muscle and fat cells become much more sensitive to the effects of insulin, so it becomes possible that we deal more effectively with the glucose that is around.

So - what I was eating and am still eating - meats, fish, cheeses, cream, green veg, some beans/legumes sometimes, green veg, mushrooms and similar. No carb-heavy large quantity items. I will drink zero-carb beer, wine (roughly the same amount of carb in a bottle of wine as in a pint of beer) and spirits (zero carb). I have no idea of the daily calorific content as it isn't relevant - I eat when I want to and don't eat otherwise - "snacks" simply aren't a thing anymore. I do use things like low carb "bread" and Heinz' low sugar ketchup - there are a few carbs in them but I can budget for those in my 20g/day.

So my diet is definitely not plant-based and honestly I don't think I could begin to manage on a plant based diet. Others may be able to. I've found that good quality fresh meat and veg cooked from scratch works very well. I don't think it's an either/or - you need to find what works for you, bearing in mind that it isn't for the short term. A lot of the material on the internet is produced and pushed by people with something to sell, and I am wary of those.

If you're using your meter to test around food (before eating and at +2 hrs), you'll begin to build up a picture of which foods do what to your blood glucose. Then you can tailor what you're eating to how your system reacts.

Does that help?
 
Also after getting back on the wagon I tested my ketones and there definitely a colour change on the stick so hopefully I can get to normal range soon.
I mean whats the alternative to the Newcastle diet? Avoid Carbs? Vegan? Carnivore? ‍♂️
Hi @MCMLXXIII I assume you are asking about lifestyle alternatives to ND, not medical ones (which include metformin, SGLT2's, insulin, bariatric surgery etc. etc.).

In my personal opinion, not a DCUK stance, people very often get hung up about minor differences in approach with lifestyle for control/remission of T2 Diabetes. We (Type 2 Diabetics) are in a situation where we don't cope well with carbohydrates such that despite us often having lots of natural insulin sloshing around in our bodies, we also have too much Glucose as well.

It's like running a bath and it overflowing. In order to stop it, some may say pull the plug out, while others say reduce the flow into the bath by turning the tap. Both do work, but in the case of our bodies, we can't stop eating forever. Everyone acknowledges that it is the carbohydrates in our food which are digested into glucose and that our bodies actually need a certain minimum amount of glucose per day.

This is where the disputes about approaches start. If we were athletes we would use up a lot more of that glucose, muscles even store glucose safely outside the bloodstream without doing aerobic exercise, so just building bigger muscles through weight training can help. But the most effective approach is to 'turn down the tap', i.e. reduce the total carbs (both starches and sugars) the we eat!

This makes a 'low carb' approach strikingly obvious, indeed when you look at something like ND, then in effect it's just another variation on low carb, because when you portion out the 800 calories per day of ND into calories from Protein, from Fat and from Carbohydrates you can see that in order to make it have enough Protein and Fat to fill our requirements there isn't a lot of calories left from carbohydrates - certainly much less than the average person eats daily.

So Fasting (for days), Weekly 5 days eating with 2 fasting or low calorie days, Intermittent Fasting (also called Time Restricted Eating e.g. eating only in a 6hr to 8hr window), ND, Low Carb (under 130gms per day of carbs), Very Low Carb (20gms to 50gms), Keto (under 20gms) are all variations on the same theme. Just find one that suits you and delivers big enough results as seen in your BG meter and how well you feel.

Where you are on the eating spectrum (from completely Vegan to completely Carnivore) is less important (provided you get all your nutrients). And it is possible to do that at either extreme!

However just because it's possible, doesn't mean it's easy! For almost all people it is extremely difficult to reduce carbohydrates enough on a Vegan diet, even Vegetarian is difficult. Thus most of us eat meat, fish & eggs, many also eat dairy and many also eat nuts.

Your BG meter is your own personal T2 Diabetes expert. It can tell you exactly how your body is coping with your own diabetes, because we all have different bodies, genes, micro-biome, traditional foods etc.
 
Something I think I have to.come to terms with is the distinction and preference to managing Type 2 Diabetes very well, reversing it, and being in remission. Is as much about personal.hoals as it is about where the official line is between those perimeters. Lots to think about. But if like to not take meds anymore, so anything I can do.to keep good control and within that and I'm a happy bunny.
 
Something I think I have to.come to terms with is the distinction and preference to managing Type 2 Diabetes very well, reversing it, and being in remission. Is as much about personal.hoals as it is about where the official line is between those perimeters. Lots to think about. But if like to not take meds anymore, so anything I can do.to keep good control and within that and I'm a happy bunny.
Don't forget that the "official target" for a T2's HbA1c as set out in the NICE guidelines is not "to have normal blood glucose".

For adults whose type 2 diabetes is managed either by lifestyle and diet, or lifestyle and diet combined with a single drug not associated with hypoglycaemia, support them to aim for an HbA1c level of 48 mmol/mol (6.5%). For adults on a drug associated with hypoglycaemia, support them to aim for an HbA1c level of 53 mmol/mol (7.0%). [2015]

So you may read about people achieving "target" blood glucose levels where the target value may be somewhat obscure, or may be given as "according to NICE guidelines" etc. And the definition of remission has changed, is changing, and will probably change again. My practice stuck to a definition that meant you had to have normal BG (defined as sub 42mmol/mol HbA1c) throughout a 12 month period without any use of glucose lowering medication during that period.

I understand these days that the current definition is two sub 48 mmol/mol HbA1cs three months apart, without any use of glucose lowering medication. The 2020 definition is very far from the much less stringent 2025 requirements, which have (in my view) been drawn up with the aim of being able to attach a QoF payment to them. Personally, I find it hard to square the standard concept of remission as an absence of symptoms, with this view of T2 "remission" including an acceptance of substantially elevated blood glucose levels.
 
Could be a good time to start planning ahead, @MCMLXXIII , and researching low carb curry recipes. It would be cruel to post pics of any, ;) but there are plenty of websites, dietdoctor is a good place to start.
 
If the Newcastle Diet says 800 calories a day..
Is there a guide to how many grammes of carbohydrates we should be aiming for?
 
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