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HOMA-IR

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Drfarxan

Well-Known Member
Messages
149
Hello guys,

Did any of the type 2s ever calculate their insulin resistance using the HOMA-IR formula? This is for the forumers who were successful with remission.

PS: happy to say my latest HbA1c is 5.4% (34 mmol/mol) after being diagnosed last year in july. I am planing to do both OGTT and homa-ir in the FAR future. Maybe after 5 years or more while continuing the low card/ketogenic life style. Not that ill ever go back to a high carbs diet!!. I am just not comfortable enough to think i "reversed" my diabetes or if its even possible and thats why i want to give it more time.

So did any of the wonderful forumers here ever calculated their insulin resistance?
 
Last edited:
Yes. I’ve had private insulin resistance tests 3 times. The test comprises a fasting insulin reading taken in conjunction with a FBG test and is calculated using the HOMA-IR formula. Ought to get it re-checked.
 
Hi @Drfaxan,

Here in Germany, as a T2 it is almost impossible to get your insulin tested. However, Ted Naiman suggests the triglyceride-glucose index as a good proxy: https://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/TyGIndexCalculator.html .

Based on this I'm borderline, sometimes somewhat above the threshold of 4.49 or sometimes somewhat below the threshold.

Here are the results my last three blood tests:

4,491 Sep 17
4,278 Sep 18
4,539 Mar 19

Btw, congrats on the fab HbA1c. Really well done.
 
Last edited:
Drfarxan said:
Hello guys,

Did any of the type 2s ever calculate their insulin resistance using the HOMA-IR formula? This is for the forumers who where successful with remission.

PS: happy to say my latest HbA1c is 5.4% (34 mmol/mol) after being diagnosed last year in july. I am planing to do both OGTT and homa-ir in the FAR future. Maybe after 5 years or more while continuing the low card/ketogenic life style. Not that ill ever go back to a high carbs diet!!. I am just not comfortable enough to think i "reversed" my diabetes or if its even possible and thats why i want to give it more time.

So did any of the wonderful forumers here ever calculated their insulin resistance?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I'm only producing trace insulin so am outside the bounds of the calculation.
https://www.dtu.ox.ac.uk/homacalculator/
 
Goonergal said:
Yes. I’ve had private insulin resistance tests 3 times. The test comprises a fasting insulin reading taken in conjunction with a FBG test and is calculated using the HOMA-IR formula. Ought to get it re-checked.
Click to expand...
If you don’t mind me asking what where the results?If they are private then its ok but would be nice to learn from you. When did you start a low carb/keto diet after diagnosed? Your results are pretty good.
 
ert said:
Unfortunately, I'm only producing trace insulin so am outside the bounds of the calculation.
https://www.dtu.ox.ac.uk/homacalculator/
Click to expand...
I have nephew who was diagnosed at 4 yo with type 1 diabetes. Looking at your results and how bernestein solution(my brother has his book) actually work gives me alot of hope. This is why i enjoy of this forum alot of amazing people.
Doing my resesrch i once saw a study that on a low card some alpha cell in the pancreas re-differentiate into beta cells. The problem is the same autoimmune attack(in type 1/LADA) on them destroys them again. The solution treating the autoimmune with that beta cells can recover and procedures like beta cells transfer can work. I believe and hope if they can do that then type 1 diabetes will be history
 
Drfarxan said:
Hello guys,

Did any of the type 2s ever calculate their insulin resistance using the HOMA-IR formula? This is for the forumers who where successful with remission.

PS: happy to say my latest HbA1c is 5.4% (34 mmol/mol) after being diagnosed last year in july. I am planing to do both OGTT and homa-ir in the FAR future. Maybe after 5 years or more while continuing the low card/ketogenic life style. Not that ill ever go back to a high carbs diet!!. I am just not comfortable enough to think i "reversed" my diabetes or if its even possible and thats why i want to give it more time.

So did any of the wonderful forumers here ever calculated their insulin resistance?
Click to expand...

I calculated mine once and had it tested twice when medichecks were offering their postal testing service.
First time I had fasting insulin measured and took my own FBG.
Second two times had HOMA-IR tested and calculated by the lab.

Oddly mine got worse then better again.. assuming I calculated it correctly the first time!

Not had it done for a while as I can't send the blood sample by post any more.

Screenshot 2021-04-10 at 19.04.53.png
 
Drfarxan said:
If you don’t mind me asking what where the results?If they are private then its ok but would be nice to learn from you. When did you start a low carb/keto diet after diagnosed? Your results are pretty good.
Click to expand...

Hi. No problem. The first result (Nov 2018) was 2.9; Second (August 2019) was 1 and third (January 2020) was 1.2.

Started keto almost immediately after diagnosis, aside from a day off on the first Christmas (which wasn’t long after being diagnosed).
 
Drfarxan said:
I have nephew who was diagnosed at 4 yo with type 1 diabetes. Looking at your results and how bernestein solution(my brother has his book) actually work gives me alot of hope. This is why i enjoy of this forum alot of amazing people.
Doing my resesrch i once saw a study that on a low card some alpha cell in the pancreas re-differentiate into beta cells. The problem is the same autoimmune attack(in type 1/LADA) on them destroys them again. The solution treating the autoimmune with that beta cells can recover and procedures like beta cells transfer can work. I believe and hope if they can do that then type 1 diabetes will be history
Click to expand...
Hooray, for Bernstein and his help normalise blood sugars. I acknowledge that giving up eating normally is too much for some people. On diagnosis, I had such high hope for reversing my beta-cell damage. My research led me to the conclusion when your immune system kills your beta cells they don't come back, except in mice. I'm wishing for stem cell transplants without the need for immune suppressant drugs or smart insulin in the next decade. Or failing that, they made a mistake with my diagnosis?
 
ziggy_w said:
Hi @Drfaxan,

Here in Germany, as a T2 it is almost impossible to get your insulin tested. However, Ted Naiman suggests the triglyceride-glucose index as a good proxy: https://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/TyGIndexCalculator.html .

Based on this I'm borderline, sometimes somewhat above the threshold of 4.49 or sometimes somewhat below the threshold.

Here are the results my last three blood tests:

4,491 Sep 17
4,278 Sep 18
4,539 Mar 19

Btw, congrats on the fab HbA1c. Really well done.
Click to expand...
What are the refference? I did the calculation but didn’t understand the values or in which value does it show your have high or low insulin resistance.
This is my result

upload_2021-4-10_21-31-28.png
 
ert said:
Hooray, for Bernstein and his help normalise blood sugars. I acknowledge that giving up eating normally is too much for some people. On diagnosis, I had such high hope for reversing my beta-cell damage. My research led me to the conclusion when your immune system kills your beta cells they don't come back, except in mice. I'm wishing for stem cell transplants without the need for immune suppressant drugs or smart insulin in the next decade. Or failing that, they made a mistake with my diagnosis?
Click to expand...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357144/
So far it only works in mice but who knows?!! Most type 2 diabetics had no idea about low carb/keto diet and how it can reverse type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes also have “dysfx beta cells” but with a keto diet if they start early enough can reverse beta cells damage. And also the same way some of the recovery is by alpha cells differentiating to beta cells.
The problem for type 2 is the resistance which can damage them again,and type 1 the autoimmune. But just imagine if in the future a combination of low carb/keto,autoimmune treatment and beta cell recovery can be applied to cure type 1!! Hopefully that will come true soon.
As for the “misdiagnosis” ,if your GADwas high than its type 1/LADA.
 
Drfarxan said:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357144/
So far it only works in mice but who knows?!! Most type 2 diabetics had no idea about low carb/keto diet and how it can reverse type 2 diabetes. Type 2 diabetes also have “dysfx beta cells” but with a keto diet if they start early enough can reverse beta cells damage. And also the same way some of the recovery is by alpha cells differentiating to beta cells.
The problem for type 2 is the resistance which can damage them again,and type 1 the autoimmune. But just imagine if in the future a combination of low carb/keto,autoimmune treatment and beta cell recovery can be applied to cure type 1!! Hopefully that will come true soon.
As for the “misdiagnosis” ,if your GADwas high than its type 1/LADA.
Click to expand...
I argued with my specialist that GAD antibodies can exist in the population and some people with them never go on to develop diabetes. His reply is that as I had developed diabetes and had GAD antibodies this was not the case for me. I still am hoping he could be wrong, that I will wake up one morning and suddenly not be diabetic.
 
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bulkbiker said:
I calculated mine once and had it tested twice when medichecks were offering their postal testing service.
First time I had fasting insulin measured and took my own FBG.
Second two times had HOMA-IR tested and calculated by the lab.

Oddly mine got worse then better again.. assuming I calculated it correctly the first time!

Not had it done for a while as I can't send the blood sample by post any more.

View attachment 48814
Click to expand...
Why do you think it spiked up when you tested the second time? Did you go back to a high carb diet?
Around the time of your first and second test you lost around 1-1.5? So you didnt regain the weight!! Why did it change!!!
But it can happen sometimes blood tests fluctuate alot normally unless it was something else.
Regardless they are good results,you also did an OGTT right?
 
ert said:
I argued with my specialist that GAD antibodies can exist in the population and some people with them never go on to develop diabetes. His reply is that as I had developed diabetes and had GAD antibodies this was not the case for me. I still am hoping he could be wrong, that I will wake up one morning and suddenly not be diabetic.
Click to expand...
Your c peptide is also very low. Hopefully its a misdiagnosis as you said,do more blood tests and see if they remain the same. In the meanwhile keep using insulin and dr bernestein's solution. When were you diagnosed?
 
Drfarxan said:
What are the refference? I did the calculation but didn’t understand the values or in which value does it show your have high or low insulin resistance.
This is my result

View attachment 48815
Click to expand...

Hi @Drfaxan,

This is an explanation from Ted Naiman's website:

upload_2021-4-10_20-54-38.png

Based on this description, any result under 4.49 is good and anything above it denotes insulin resistance.

There are also tons of scientific studies, just google TyG index and insulin resistance. Here is just one of study I found that deals with the trig-glucose index as a measure of insulin resistance: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31472061/

As to the disclaimer -- based on my understanding, this might the reason for this: Ted Naiman is a medical doctor and can only make a diagnosis if there is a doctor-patient relationship (which doesn't exist when you are using this calculator. If interested in what can happen in a case where there is no doctor-patient relationship, you might wan't to look at the legal troubles Tim Noakes went through.

We have a similar rule on this forum, we can't diagnose but have to refer posters to their HCPs for this. So, I guess we are often also treading a very fine line on here.
 
Mine has been 0.92 and 0.97, but even if it was 0.1 I will continue with low carb.
 
Does HOMA-IR produce meaningful results if you are on a very low carb diet? If you eat a "normal" diet and your bg is normal because you are producing large amounts of insulin to overcome the insulin resistance then a HOMA-IR test will reveal it. If you do not produce much insulin because you are not eating any carbs then it is not surprising that HOMA-IR is low.
 
Drfarxan said:
Why do you think it spiked up when you tested the second time? Did you go back to a high carb diet?
Around the time of your first and second test you lost around 1-1.5? So you didnt regain the weight!! Why did it change!!!
But it can happen sometimes blood tests fluctuate alot normally unless it was something else.
Regardless they are good results,you also did an OGTT right?
Click to expand...
Certainly didn't go back to a high carb diet..
No idea.. although it might have been that the blood was taken early in the morning on the second test and mid morning for the first I think so the first test might not be representative as I had the early morning FBG and later morning insulin.. as I said I did the calculations myself so could be out as well.
Alternatively it may simply be that insulin is way more dynamic than many think.. a bit like cholesterol.
Yes I did an OGTT as well that was in Sept 2017 and the results were this..

Screenshot 2021-04-10 at 22.42.21.png

Probably time for another of those too although I really don't fancy taking 75g of glucose in one hit!
 
Mr_Pot said:
Does HOMA-IR produce meaningful results if you are on a very low carb diet? If you eat a "normal" diet and your bg is normal because you are producing large amounts of insulin to overcome the insulin resistance then a HOMA-IR test will reveal it. If you do not produce much insulin because you are not eating any carbs then it is not surprising that HOMA-IR is low.
Click to expand...

No doubt if I ate significantly more carbs, it’d go up. But the point is by keeping carbs low and minimising insulin release one is preserving pancreas function and improving metabolic function. On top of this, the other health benefits I’ve derived from this way of eating means I have absolutely zero intention of going back even if the diabetes could unequivocally be shown to have been ‘cured’. In the meantime, ‘reversed/remission/well-controlled’ all semantics in my view.
 
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