How much Protein?

The main thing here is that protein does not cause problems for the liver or the kidneys. Higher carbs can cause some problems for the liver (especially those from fructose).
See Stuart Phillip's on protein and Jason Fung on protein wrt kidney function.

I have seen figures ranging from 0.8g pkbwpd to 2g pkbwpd. The variance is because of the individual needs when you take into consideration age, gender, metabolic rate, excercise levels etc and the fact that some people are more sensitive to changes in protein intake than others.
I must say that I have not seen a figure for protein at such a low as that 0.36g per kilo body weight per day that you ref.

I’ve cast my vote but in my opinion it’s fairly meaningless as far as comparisons go. Too many variables.

Hi,
If you have foamy urine, it's best to see your GP.
Take a sample with you if you can.
Take care

I do not and never have restricted my protein. My kidney and liver functions are normal (as per my kidney and liver function blood tests). I have at least 100g a day. I am 5ft 4ins and weigh just under 9 stone, and I don't do any exercise apart from walking and the usual household stuff. My belief is that protein is a very essential nutrient for repair, healing, and strength. It does have the ability to convert to glucose, but as the body will only do this as a last resort in the absence of enough glucose, and then again, not in every body, there is no reason to be afraid of it, and every reason to be afraid of a deficiency.

If you have existing kidney disease, it is another matter.

brainnotyetdead said:

Hello everyone.

I've recently gone low carb, and it's working really well so far. My sugars have more than halved. I am however a little confused with regards to how much, or little, Protein I should be including. I'd like some clarification really on whether anyone has had some advice, or been told that too much Protein can actually increase your blood sugars, and that if your urine is foamy, it usually indicates that your kidneys are stressed and therefore, what action should you take?

Here's a summary of some of the recommendations I've come across:

• You will have to calculate between .36 grams - .7 grams of protein multiplied by your body weight to get how much protein you need to eat a day.
  
• 126g of Protein per day is likely to cause stress on the liver and the kidney.
• 1g of Protein per pound is wrong.
• Protein intake of more than 1.6g per kg of bodyweight does not benefit the body.
• 73g - 82g of protein per day is "right" - no matter your bodyweight

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yes any worries of kidneys always need the person to be examined by a GP

brainnotyetdead said:

Hello. Thanks for your response.

May I ask, how are you sure that protein does not cause problems for the liver or the kidneys? Is this based on the information you've read from Phillips and Fung? I'm not challenging you, I'm just curious to know, especially as my Doctor's have cited that my urine has "too much protein".

Could you clarify which Phillips and Fung books/articles you are referring to? I'm very keen to read.

With regards to the variance of .8g - 2g - do you have any advice on how I'd be able to categorically find out which would be right for me?

Purely for your reference, the 0.36g per kilo figure comes from here:

Once again, many thanks for the time taken to respond. Much appreciated.

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I suggest you view either of the gentlemen's lectures on YouTube. Fung is a consultant nephrologist who has turned his hand (very successfully) to treating his patients with obesity/Diabetes with diet and fasting. Phillip's is a sports physiologist (not sure if that is his title but he is an expert in his field) and his especial interest is protein wrt to muscle and metabolism.

but anyway ones body type also indicate at what level ones proteins might need to be:

https://www.jefit.com/exercise-tips/three-different-body-types

https://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-body-type-eating

I aim for between 100 g - 160 g range but I never seem to reach that.

Carbmanager app recommends 145 g for me.

"
The current recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram (g/kg) of body weight a day for adults over 18, or about 2.3 ounces for a 180-pound adult. But research is showing that higher levels may be needed for adults age 65-plus.
In our older years, we are at risk of sarcopenia, which is the loss of muscle mass, strength and function. The essential amino acids in protein are key nutrients for muscle health, but older adults are less responsive to low doses of amino acid intake compared to younger people. A 2016 study from researchers at the departments of Food Science and Geriatrics at the University of Arkansas found that this lack of responsiveness can be overcome with higher levels of protein consumption. The study says that protein levels in the range of 30 to 35 percent of total caloric intake may prove beneficial, although the researchers acknowledge that level could be difficult to reach for many people.
People with sarcopenia may need 1.2 to 1.5 g/kg of protein a day, according to the Mayo Clinic; that's 3.5 to 4.3 ounces for a 180-pound adult. It is also important to eat the right type of proteins, including some that include the amino acid leucine, which has been shown to preserve body muscle. "Leucine is found in higher amounts in animal foods: beef, lamb, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, milk and products made with milk. It's also found in soybeans and, to a lesser extent, other beans, nuts and seeds," according to an article on the Mayo Clinic's website."

I'm well over 65 years of age.

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2018/protein-needs-fd.html

The thing about apps is that they vary wildly which in this thread is the case in point.

Yes your right my app seems to overestimate by about 20 odd gms per day according to the article in my post but I treat it as a general guide line and not some thing to be strictly adhered to as I never seem to achieve even the lower limit of 100 gms that I aim for, . note to self must do better and I have to admit my grandson is quite right when he tells me I eat far too little protein.

JohnEGreen said:

Yes your right my app seems to overestimate by about 20 odd gms per day according to the article in my post but I treat it as a general guide line and not some thing to be strictly adhered to as I never seem to achieve even the lower limit of 100 gms that I aim for, . note to self must do better and I have to admit my grandson is quite right when he tells me I eat far too little protein.

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We do need a little more as we ... erm... mature, as you know.

I used to have a lot more muscle than I do now I'm 69 and if I am to regain anything of what I have lost I think maybe I need more than just a little

I say this on every protein thread. If I fall over I want to know I can get back up again. Protein will help me do this. I am 71, but I have always eaten a lot of it - almost all in the form of animal foods.

brainnotyetdead said:

Hello everyone.

I've recently gone low carb, and it's working really well so far. My sugars have more than halved. I am however a little confused with regards to how much, or little, Protein I should be including. I'd like some clarification really on whether anyone has had some advice, or been told that too much Protein can actually increase your blood sugars, and that if your urine is foamy, it usually indicates that your kidneys are stressed and therefore, what action should you take?

Here's a summary of some of the recommendations I've come across:

• You will have to calculate between .36 grams - .7 grams of protein multiplied by your body weight to get how much protein you need to eat a day.
  
• 126g of Protein per day is likely to cause stress on the liver and the kidney.
• 1g of Protein per pound is wrong.
• Protein intake of more than 1.6g per kg of bodyweight does not benefit the body.
• 73g - 82g of protein per day is "right" - no matter your bodyweight

Click to expand...

How old are you?
Do you have kidney disease?
These are two questions that need looking at before any recommendations can be made.

As we age we should take in more protein.
And if there's no kidney disease present then you should have no problem with protein.

I probably take in about 2g per kg of lean body mass on a regular day.

edit to add check out the Ben Bikman videos on this thread
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/useful-videos.163373/#post-2029858

I can do anything up to and even above 200 grams of the carrier of protein. Often it is forgotten that say a large steak is not 100% protein. So in practice I might eat up to 2 salmon steaks and 2 sirloin / ribeyes with up to 3 eggs in a day.

I know my kidney damage happened on high carb, due to measurements before diagnosis and after. My kidney function went from around 76 to low 60's. During 5 months of carnivore I went from 62 to 61, so effectively the same on I would guess 3 kg of meat a day. During this time I was burning around 4000 calories on my Fitbit.

I do not follow the 0.8 grams derived from pig studies (as a minimum) and lazily transferred to humans for minimum war requirements.

In athletes tests have been conducted for between 3 to 4 kg with no ill effects. I would suggest non training persons do up to 1.8 kg. My references are Gabrielle Lyons and many in the performance Keto industry. LCHF has tended to frown on higher protein due to potential gluconeogenisis. I believe the results of your meter and blood tests tell the truth, and if you are in the gym the numbers on the lifts.

Bluetit1802 said:

I say this on every protein thread. If I fall over I want to know I can get back up again. Protein will help me do this. I am 71, but I have always eaten a lot of it - almost all in the form of animal foods.

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Yup. Here is a two minute vid from Phillip's on this very topic.

All this science is going straight over my head!
I don’t weight or measure my high protein foods, infact the only element I measure/count is carbs. However I do notice if I have a meat heavy late dinner my fasting blood sugar will be up a bit the next morning. My HbA1c, liver and kidney function tests last month were all normal, so I’ll just carry on the way I am!

Guzzler said:

Yup. Here is a two minute vid from Phillip's on this very topic.

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Thank you for this. It confirms my amateur thinking.