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huge conflict with dietician

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by kendod666, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. Yorksman

    Yorksman Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well you do get white, from the centre of the grain and the brown bits are from the other parts of the grain. This allows many millers to add refined white four to the mix, so you can't tell easily. They do this because white flour milled in high speed steel rollers is cheap. It is a process called adulteration and is very common. It's not as bad as the victorian times though when millers would add chalk, alum, plaster of paris, mashed potatoes and even sawdust into the flour, but not horsemeat as far as I know.
     
  2. sip

    sip · Active Member

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    :lol: 35 years ago I gave up my promising (not) career as a miller -- maize and wheat. Also animal feeds production.
     
  3. squeeze321

    squeeze321 · Well-Known Member

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    kendod666,

    Your blood sugars are fantastic, which is a bonus that some diabetics notice when they eat low carb. You need to do what is right for you and if you feel ok, well and happy on the amount of carbs you are consuming then that is ok for you. I on the other hand eat about 175g of carbs a day but I only have to cut it down to 140g and I start to feel weak, sleepy and lack energy to a point where I become just absent minded and ill. I would not worry too much about what the dietition is saying you just need to find what works for you.
     
  4. Sammeh5678

    Sammeh5678 · Active Member

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    No because if your missing some parts of a diet, like nutrients and vitamins etc, they wouldn't tell you to punch up the amounts of **** you eat, they'd tell you to take suppliments if your happy with your diet!


    --
    Sam
    Sent from the iOS App
    Facebook.com/sammskii999
     
  5. EllisB

    EllisB · Well-Known Member

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    The OP is a Type 1. That gives a good indication as to the motives of their dietician.

    There is a certain level of insulin that a non-diabetic person would have. That is enough to handle a normal amount of carbs.

    If a Type 1 injects a similar amount of insulin, they are as close to normal as they can get. This has the effect of reducing the impact of any error in insulin dosing. A 1 unit error on a 1 unit dose is much more significant than a 1 unit error on a 5 unit dose. Hence the advice not to low-carb.
     
  6. stevespalding

    stevespalding Type 2 · Member

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    Like Chris lowe, both my dsn and gp seem to ignore me when I mention my 'low carb' diet. I think they're more focused on my hba1c coming down from 7.5% to 5% over the last 12 months (not to mention loosing over three stone). By taking the nutritionists advice, I just got heavier and heavier and my hba1c just went up and up. You need to do what works for you. In my case its a very low carb diet. My dsn must be aware of it as there's no hiding the fact you're in ketosis. As far as consuming more fat goes, it has had no impact on my lipid levels, or my liver or kidney profiles. In fact if anything, they're slightly better. I'm not saying this type of diet suits everyone, but for me its made my glycemic control much much better.
     
  7. MedwynDeer

    MedwynDeer · Newbie

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    Im extremely grateful to see this discussion. I have had similar issues with dieticians and my GP. I know the only way I have managed to get my blood sugar levels into normal range has been by Low carb dieting. And they seem to continually push a way of eating on me that sets me up for craving carbs ( I am utterly unable to have one wee square of chocolate once in a while - what planet do they live on) It feel scary to be acting against medical advice and I have felt on my own with this. So thank you to you guys
     
  8. Lilian15

    Lilian15 · Newbie

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    Constant eating low carb could affect youe metabolism - e.g. stops the conversion of inactive storage hormone T4 to the active T3. It did mine and I ended up with weight gains because of it .
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sip,

    You hear that a lot; but it's simply not true. Google 'essential nutrients' you'll see that there are no carbohydrates on the list. 'Essential' means nutrients that cannot be created by the body. It is true that you need about 30 grams of glucose a day (for elements of brain function and some muscle function) but our rather astonishing bodies can synthesise that from protein; by gluconeogenesis.

    So, if you want to be super hard core you can eat zero carbs a day without problems (as long as you are eating the essential nutrients). How palatable that would be is another question...

    If you are low carbing your body will switch from a glucose metabolic state to a ketotic state; it will break down fat to provide energy and you will have low levels of ketones show up in your blood.

    Here is a link to a recent study demonstrating that low-carb results in lower HbA1c, greater weight loss plus no detriment to blood lipids (despite more fat being eaten by the low-carb group). That reads to me as all upsides no downsides!

    http://www.healio.com/endocrinology/dia ... n-diabetes

    Best

    Dillinger
     
  10. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It reads to me like a half truth Dillinger you really should mention that the study you linked to found that a low carb diet resulted in a lower HbA1c over a very low calorie diet (under 500calories) so it is not suggesting that a low carb diet is he best diet at all, only that it was found to be better than a very low calorie diet

    And Professor Taylor of Newcastle University might argue that a very low calorie diet reduces HbA1c's and reduces visceral fat as well in T2 diabetics of four years or less, along with a great many people here who have successfully reduced their HbA1c's along with their visceral fat using a very low calorie diet, so in fact a very low carb diet is probably better for T2 diabetics diagnosed within the last 4 years than a very low carb diet, wouldnt you agree?
     
  11. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Dillinger, I stand corrected the study you linked to did not trial a sub 500caloorie diet but a diet 500 cals under the RDA so I was mistaken. However the conclusion still is not as clear cut as you would have us believe and I quote:

    “Our results suggest that a lower carbohydrate diet coupled with skills that promote behavior change may improve glucose control in type 2 diabetes,” researchers wrote.

    I have to wonder what the skills that promote behaviour changes were?

    Of course it still doesnt imply that a low carb diet is better than any other diet, just that it was found to be the better of the two diets in this particular study.

    Neither does it address the fact that any very restrictive diet is almost impossible for the vast majority of people to follow long term.
     
  12. hanadr

    hanadr · Expert

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    There's no evidence anywhere that we need ANY dietary carbs. the RDAs are based on guesswork.
    A recently qualified dietician told me that they are no longer opposed to low carb, but that older colleagues are resisting change.
    Hana
     
  13. Superchip

    Superchip · Well-Known Member

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    I low carb high fat and have done for years, it's a piece of cake !

    It's not rocket science is it. Very easy to stick to when you get the good readings.

    Just don't fall foul of temptation which is probably where most people become unstuck. Eyes bigger than belly syndrome.

    Good luck all, keep calm,, low carb, eat sat fat, and carry on !

    SuperHighFatChip
     
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  14. SamJB

    SamJB Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I imagine everyone on here that champions low carbing speak from experience when they say it works. So from our experience, it is "better".

    And as Superchip said, when you get the good numbers (better than with carbs), you want to persist with it. Whether anyone else sticks to it is irrelevant to me. It works for me and I'm sticking to it!
     
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  15. Sid Bonkers

    Sid Bonkers Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I dont have a problem with low carbing Sam in fact for the first year after I was diagnosed I ate no more or not much more than 60g carbs a day but then guess what? I found I was able to eat more and more carbs as my control improved and I lost my insulin resistance thanks to loosing weight, I have never had an HbA1c outside of the 5%'s in nearly 5 years and the problem with your statement above is that most people "on here that champion low carbing" have only been low carbing for a relatively short time, of course as I have said over and over again there will always be some people who enjoy a low carb lifestyle but for the vast majority it is too restrictive.

    Low carbing works, but diabetes is for life and all diabetics need to adopt a lifestyle that they can sustain for life, if that is by low carbing thats fine but for most it is not and that is a fact that is reported here and on other forums time and time again.

    I simply object to those people who insult me on other blogs and forums coming here trying to pretend that there is overwhelming evidence that low carbing is the best way to control diabetes and that it is proven to be safe and dandy when its not, these same people rubbish every single study that questions low carbing, questioning the type of study or the methods used but shout and champion every study that says anything positive, its almost childlike and I am entirely sick of it and those people who are continually rude and abusive to me and others elsewhere.

    And this will be my last comment on this thread.
     
  16. rizzo

    rizzo Type 2 · Member

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    Can you tell me more? Or point me in the right direction?

    Let's just say I'm having issues. :oops:
     
  17. SamJB

    SamJB Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you Sid: it works to control levels, but its not for everyone, that's for sure. For me (a T1), the experience of low carbing is probably different to you. For me it means small amounts of insulin, which means smaller and less frequent mistakes, both high and low.
     
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  18. tonyS54

    tonyS54 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Low carb for over three years now, don't find hard to stick to at all.
     
  19. dornochian

    dornochian · Member

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    Personally for starters most dietitian nurses are not dietitians, they are nurses trained to a limited degree about diabetes, they have training to avoid you seeing specialists that cost the NHS money.

    Dietitians were once responsible for dealing with nutrition but they were replaced by nutritionists that follow the 'company' line especially in hospital. Hospitals are just following the 'company' line, several studies have found huge issues in what food is offered in hospital, so why would the advice given to you change, it won't..!

    If you are visiting a dietitian/nutritionist as part of the medical care I would suggest reading Dr. Patrick Holford

    http://www.patrickholford.com/

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Say-No-Diab...id=1372842538&sr=8-9&keywords=patrick+holford

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Low-GL-...id=1372842601&sr=8-6&keywords=patrick+holford - excellent source of info on diabetes

    Again from a personal point I wouldn't go totally carb-less, there are plenty of foods you can eat which allow for carbs and cut down on the fat intake, if that is what you are doing.

    When I was diagnosed I was told frequently that I would require meds for my T2, that my figures would not be reduced enough by diet alone.... I was avergaing 24.4% (243) and dropped to an average of 7.3% (54) within four months, missed the three month test due to other illness.

    Another good book to read is the South Beach Diet

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/South-Beach...d=1372843037&sr=1-4&keywords=south+beach+diet

    Another of my new found diet protocols is Prof. Michael Holick

    http://vitamindhealth.org/

    also found on youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq1t9WqOD-0
     
  20. xyzzy

    xyzzy Other · Well-Known Member

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    Hey Sid I'm with you on the bit I've quoted. Like you say once you lose weight and therefore insulin resistance and importantly you gain control of your lifestyle tolerance to carbs does seem to increase as mine certainly has and I enjoy taking advantage of that fact. Mine probably hasn't improved as much as yours but there again we are all different and I'm still a couple of years or so behind you. I hope my tolerance will further improve but until it does I would still rather carb restrict to keep healthy than take a load of hypo inducing and weight promoting drugs just so I can eat more rice, pasta, bread, cereals and potatoes. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

    Relating it back to dieticians and specifically T2 then given that you agree that LC does work for newly diagnosed people then don't you think it should at least be presented to people as a formalised treatment method? That's my fundamental objection to those that are anti LC; they are denying a valid treatment method that has been adopted and is successfully practised in other countries. I think its good that the ADA seem to finally be waking up to fact that it works. It seems to be continuing the ADA trend of gradual acceptance of LC as a means of control over the past few years.

    For T1's the LC argument is subtly different and equally compelling but as I'm not T1 I wont comment further.

    Take care

    Steve
     
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