huge conflict with dietician

[douglas99]

................ raw brain, raw liver (a significant source of vitamin C and others), and other varieties of offal..............

Seriously. that's what you believe we all should eat?
Bl**dy ' ell.

 

[douglas99]

......There are plenty of examples of people living for extended periods on such a diet. Including the traditional Inuit and Maasai diets.............

You do know these two examples have the worse life expectencies on record?
And they are the target groups you suggest we follow?

 

[mpe]

The earliest and primary proponent of an all animal-based diet was Vilhjalmur Stefansson, a Canadian explorer who lived with the Inuit for some time, and who witnessed their diet as essentially consisting of meat and fish, with very few carbohydrates - berries during the summer. Stefansson and a friend later volunteered for a one year experiment at Bellevue Hospital in New York to prove he could thrive on a diet of nothing but meat, meat fat and internal organs of animals.

Stefansson ate the Inuit diet for nearly a decade. That was before the one year experiment. The two men were, if anything, healthier at the end of the experiment than at the start.

He certainly wasn't the earliest. William Banting ate and popularised a low carbohydrate diet in the 19th century. (He was advised by his doctor.)
His doctor being William Harvey who had learned of such a diet in the context of diabetes management from Claude Bernard.

IIRC low carbohydrate diets for diabetes management go back at least as far as Classical Greece.

 

[fatbird]

The full William Banting story and more.

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/banting.html#.UsNKGqJX-pg

FB

 

[mrman]

"Google ketoacidosis with a normal blood sugar level while your at it"

Brett please can you direct me to where healthy people with normal blood glucose levels suffer from ketoacidosis.

FB

Wasn't refering to healthy people, was referring to type 1 diabetics with normal blood level whilst.in ketoacidosis. This may mean newly diagnosed type 1s, mis diagnosed type 2s, or indeed evolving ladas.

By the way, thanks for the apology after insinuating I was lying about my diagnosis.

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[fatbird]

Brett said.

"type 1 diabetics with normal blood level whilst in ketoacidosis." Please can you direct me to information regarding type one diabetics with normal blood glucose levels in a ketoacidosis state-thank you.

FB

 

[douglas99]

Stefansson ate the Inuit diet for nearly a decade........................

Reference for that?

 

[fatbird]

As I said google the man. Please do not misunderstand me. I have money in Pharmaceutical stocks-low carb diabetics could cost me money-I try to be a person of Christian disposition and endeavour to be balanced.

FB

 

[mrman]

View Full Article (HTML)
Get PDF (65K)
Keywords:
* euglycemia;
* ketoacidosis;
* type 1 diabetes mellitus;
* pseudoeuglycaemia;
* urinary ketones;
* low-dose insulinAbstract
We present two cases of diabetic ketoacidosis in type 1 diabetic patients who presented with normal glucose levels. The clinical picture and biochemical profile were typical of diabetic ketoacidosis, although if only the blood glucose level at presentation had been taken into account the unwary would have missed the diagnosis. The two cases highlight that ketoacidosis in diabetes can occur with near-normal blood glucose and that levels of blood glucose and development of ketoacidosis do not necessarily correlate. ‘Euglycemic ketoacidosis’ was originally described whereby the initial blood glucose was less than 16.7 mmol/L and plasma bicarbonate equal to or less than 10 MMOL l/L. The cause of preserved ‘euglycemia’ could be greater urinary loss of glucose triggered by counter-regulatory hormones or decreased rate of hepatic glucose production observed during a fast as in a state of diabetic ketoacidosis. Better education and home blood glucose monitoring with appropriate increase in insulin doses during intercurrent illness may be another factor responsible for the rising incidence of euglycemia. One must use urinary ketones and arterial blood gas measurement in all known diabetic patients who are unwell on presentation to diagnose ‘euglycaemic diabetic ketoacidosis’ and treat them with cautious use of low-dose insulin infusion and intravenous fluids, otherwise a potentially treatable condition may be missed. We discuss euglycaemic diabetic ketoacidosis, an entity we believe is possibly on the rise and discuss the available, albeit controversial and scarce, literature. Copyright © 2001 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

Off google

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[mrman]

Again, thanks for the apology, I have Stated my diagnosis, what else can I do ?

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[douglas99]

As I said google the man. Please do not misunderstand me. I have money in Pharmaceutical stocks-low carb diabetics could cost me money-I try to be a person of Christian disposition and endeavour to be balanced.

FB

I have, that's why I'm curious as there doesn't seem to a factual reference to his "ten year inuit diet"
Just the documented one year experiment he tried.

 

[fatbird]

"We present two cases" " two cases highlight that ketoacidosis in diabetes can occur with near-normal blood glucose" "the initial blood glucose was less than 16.7 mmol/L"

Normal BG is approximately 4.5. Ketoacidosis in people with normal blood glucose levels is one in a million, maybe.

Sorry Brett I am not buying it.

FB

 

[mrman]

Think it said 10mmol somewhere after that, but that was just 1 I reference I found , there are others. Anyway what I said happened to me 100% clarifies it CAN happen and reason for misdiagnosis and why misdiagnisis can happen in the first place. You don't believe me obviously, thats your problem not mine. I'm simply trying to make people aware not unjistify low carb. I'm sure low carbing and ketones is appropriate for some like yourself.

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[mrman]

Then again, could of posted umpteen references and would not of mattered I think. I know what happened to me, you think im lying, any surprise, yes tbh, thought I had more respect than that. Is it that bad to admit. Well to you obviously. Whys that.



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[mrman]

Apologies op, way off topic in answer to your original concerns no, pizza, white bread, pasta etc are not really suitable carbs for good control of diabetes. always go for wholegrain versions,.slow release carbs suited to insulin or impaired tolerance. Excercise as always helps. Find a suitable and sustainable carb content for yourself dependant on your age, sex, current activity, height etc

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[fatbird]

Brett I have not said you lied. I wish you many decades of good health. May you be around at eighty years of age, fit and active. Good luck my friend and a happy New Year.

FB

 

[mrman]

"Brett, thanks for the extra info; I hadn't realised ketoacidosis can occur at lower sugar levels."

Yes and we can all fly-and win the lottery next week.

FB

Um, think u did


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[Yorksman]

................ raw brain, raw liver (a significant source of vitamin C and others), and other varieties of offal..............

Seriously. that's what you believe we all should eat?
Bl**dy ' ell.

Not only those things. You should also eat seal blubber which is very high in vitamins E, A and D.

Unfortunately it's not the whole story and Inuit are definitely not amongst the most healthy people in the world and they don't have as long a life expectancy as most other north american groups. Most of these things are due to genetic variation and those humans who are predisposed to thrive on certain types of diet will do better than those who aren't. Whilst it is observed that diets rich in fish oils reduce instances of thrombotic conditions and improve cardio vascular health, too much raises the liklihood of hemorragic stroke. This may be tempered by some genetic mechanism in Inuit but isn't in europeans, except for eastern Finns.

A typical european genetic mutation is Factor V Leiden. It's a blood clotting disorder and potentially fatal. You need two copies of the gene for the trait to be expressed but in parts of europe at least 20% of the population carry one copy of this potentially fatal disease. The original mutation occured in one person at some time back in history so how can it be that something deadly can grow to such levels within a population? The answer is that it also has some benefits. Blood which clots more easily is helpful for women during childbirth and also for healing wounds. Another condition which is seen as somewhat debilitating with potentially fatal results due to complications is sickle cell anemia. However, it is widespread in subsaharan africa and it turns out to offer some degree of protection against malaria. Life expectancy for sufferers used to be about 42 for women and 48 for men but evolution is only really concerned with having people live long enough to reproduce and raise their children to an age where they can then propagate the species. So, that's long enough and more longevity is a bonus, except for the Chancellor of the Exchequor who has pensions to worry about.

It is hard to quantify the life expectancy of north american Inuit populations accurately because they do things like smoke and drink alcohol. Siberian Inuit however have been studied and life expectancy of some groups was only 44 with only 25% living past 60. Now I like my roasted reindeer leg bone marrow as much as the next man but, as a northern european, I am genetically adapted to things like dairy, something which the Saami are not.

 

[elaine77]

When I was diagnosed I was really ill. I had a BG level of 14.4 mmol and my ketones were bright purple at 4+++

Don't know if this makes any difference to this conversation lol but there you go.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[mo1905]

I love penguins !