I Did Not Cause My Condition

[Krystyna23040]

[QUOTE="midnightrider, post: 1930468, member: 371625"
It is irresponsible to tell people that it is all down to luck and there is nothing that you can do about it..[/QUOTE]

I don't think that this is what is being said in this thread. For those of us who are genetically predisposed to ending up with T2D because our bodies cannot cope with a diet with a 'normal ' amount of bread, potatoes, rice and pasta (probably almost everyone with T2 unless it was prescription drug induced) there was absolutely no way of knowing that we would end up with T2D if we carried on eating them.

So we find out how low we need to go to keep our blood sugars ok and that is how we manage it.

Gary Taubes explains what happens in his book 'Why we get fat'. He also explains that the obesity and craving for sweet stuff is a result of this 'faulty insulin response and not the cause of it and T2D.

My friend is six stone heavier than me with absolutely normal blood sugars. I am skinny and if I ate the carbs that she does would have blood sugars back up to the high 20s.

 

[Angelofthemarches]

I think this is a complex issue. While I was always aware that being overweight and doing no exercise (actually I always exercised regularly), I think I was severely carbs intolerant from an early age and the only medical advice I received was a low fat low calorie diet sheet which I duly followed but which led to a lifetime of bingeing/starving and eventual weight gain. I would 'successfully' lose the weight then gain it back again. Low carb was a revelation to me.
So the 'blame' tag is a little simplistic. I currently attend 5 online OA meetings a week just to stay on track. I do not think anyone without this background would have to do this.

 

[zand]

Yes many of us did our best, only to find out that the mainstream advice we followed in good faith was all wrong. Those people whose bodies didn't react badly to the bad advice are the lucky ones, yet these are the people we get most grief from because they assume we must have done something differently to them.

I wonder what's makes people think they are so perfect that they can judge others who are worse off than themselves? That surely is a real character flaw, not accepting that **** happens, so they need to know that their own good health is down to their own efforts and that they are in control then **** won't happen to them. Well I have news for these people - life can change in an instant. Don't judge others, you may be next to face that judgement.

 

[HSSS]

As you say the advice many of us were given in how to address weight gain etc caused by the latent diabetes did us far more harm than good and that is not our fault. At least we tried. I should imagine few of us expected a diagnosis or deliberately courted one.

A persons action will have an effect on their health, in my opinion that’s a fact. Whether those actions were done in knowledge of and despite the outcome ie blame is a totally different discussion.

My point was some people don’t even try. I am NOT addressing this to anyone in this forum here. But I have known people including friends and relatives that outright say “I don’t care if this may harm me, I don’t care if I’m told this makes me unhealthy, I don’t care if I should move to the best of my ability - I can’t be bothered and don’t want to change” and then followed these words with the same actions. This is very different to “I tried my best within my physical, educational, information and mental abilities to be healthy but genetics and poor official advice were against me”.

It is however wrong to assume anyone falls into this camp and blame them. We don’t know their story, they may choose to hide it behind a front. But these people do exist and to deny this is counter productive.

I too hate the blame culture but look at it differently to some on here. That doesn’t make me heartless or attacking of anyone. All anyone can do is make an effort to be healthy within their knowledge and physical abilities and taking official guidance in good faith.

For many diabetics it is not enough, for some potential diabetics it just possibly is - depending on their abilities, knowledge, advice and actions. To deny them the chance to dodge the bullet by refusing to accept that actions do have some effect is a disservice to those following behind us. I know I am educating my children differently as a result in a hope to prevent them suffering the same fate as me.

 

[Deleted member 371625]

Yes many of us did our best, only to find out that the mainstream advice we followed in good faith was all wrong. Those people whose bodies didn't react badly to the bad advice are the lucky ones, yet these are the people we get most grief from because they assume we must have done something differently to them.

I wonder what's makes people think they are so perfect that they can judge others who are worse off than themselves? That surely is a real character flaw, not accepting that **** happens, so they need to know that their own good health is down to their own efforts and that they are in control then **** won't happen to them. Well I have news for these people - life can change in an instant. Don't judge others, you may be next to face that judgement.

I do not judge other, I have merely said that I have the right to blame myself for my own actions.
I certainly cannot look myself in the mirror and say that I have always done my best to stay healthy and I judge myself accordingly.
It is up to others to judge themselves. I have no right to do so.

 

[zand]

I do not judge other, I have merely said that I have the right to blame myself for my own actions.
I certainly cannot look myself in the mirror and say that I have always done my best to stay healthy and I judge myself accordingly.
It is up to others to judge themselves. I have no right to do so.

Well then we agree. I am still obese (was morbidly obese) but I can look myself in the mirror and know that I have always done my best to stay healthy.

 

[SkinnyAussie2]

I’m a skinny type 2 for over 20 years and a healthy eater.

I have the genes for types 1 and 2. Not aware of anything I did to trigger diabetes.

We are all different but share the struggles.

 

[lucylocket61]

The title of this thread is: I did not cause my type 2 diabetes.

My point: that in order to become type 2 diabetic, one has to have the trigger. It is not a matter of eating and drinking the wrong foods, and not exercising. Its a matter of having that trigger waiting in our bodies.

I am saddened by the lack of awareness of how much mental health issues have affected some, the lack of compassion by a few about the way different bodies react differently. And how, even on here, people have swallowed the diet and exercise mantra.

I was slim, I exercised at the gym 3 times a week. I was very depressed. I took antidepressants which, I now know, affected my liver in a rare reaction. I put on 6 stones in 10 months or thereabouts, and became very, very tired all the time. Doctor told me to eat lots of carbs to give me energy. I changed anti depressants, I continued to gain weight, more slowly, I became more and more tired.

I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic, told its nothing to worry about by GP and, 3 years later became type 2. Then I discovered this site.

However IF I had not had the type 2 trigger in my body, i would not have become diabetic, just more and more tired and overweight.

I did everything the GP and psych team told me to do, and I ended up type 2. I am glad I did, as it stopped the cycle of carbs harming my body.

I wish there was a thread for those of us who do all the best things, and still cant lose weight etc. I would hide out there, away from the misinformed ones who blame others for their condition.

After all, we can accept that you dont get flu unless you are exposed to the virus, and have the sort of immune system which cant fight it (many people, even in a flu epidemic, dont get it) so why is it considered different for type 2 diabetics?

 

[Flora123]

This is an excellent video which talks about this

 

[HSSS]

Believing that genetics are not the whole story all by themselves in every single case is not swallowing the mantra. It’s a belief that’s it’s multifaceted in many cases. The trigger needs a bullet and pressure and gunpowder and a hammer too! We don’t know for sure what they are. Alone anyone one of them stands a chance to win the diabetes roulette, all or most together probably not.

In some it may overwhelmingly be the case that genetics would win regardless of actions or choices. In others we may have helped it along or had options to slow progress to diagnosic levels. That’s my personal belief same as yours is that in your personal case there was nothing more you could have done. You may well be right, at the same time as am I.

Nor in my case is a lack of awareness of mental health issues, having been affected directly and indirectly by that demon.

Causation is not the same thing as blameworthiness. You identify poor advice as being a factor. By that same logic good advice or knowledge would have been a factor. A factor, a cause, not blame or shame.

I don’t enjoy being accused of ignorance or lack of compassion because my views on MY diabetes are different to yours. (I know you didn’t explicitly say this : I’m not trying to put words in your mouth). Same as you don’t like being blamed by society for your illness. The science doesn’t have all the answers yet and neither do I.

It is not a personal attack on anyone who genuinely believes they did the best they knew and were able to do. I don’t read other posters with similar views blaming anyone either the way the press does. Just identifying what might have made a difference in their lives.

I’m going to bow out now as I don’t wish to cause upset or offence ,beyond what I inadvertently already have, my point made as clearly and unjudgementally as I know how.

 

[lucylocket61]

I

Believing that genetics are not the whole story all by themselves in every single case is not swallowing the mantra. It’s a belief that’s it’s multifaceted in many cases.

I agree, I am not saying there are not many triggers. My point is that there has to be a trigger to a pre-disposition due to some fault in insulin response.

You identify poor advice as being a factor. By that same logic good advice or knowledge would have been a factor. A factor, a cause, not blame or shame.

I agree, a factor in the treatment of those possessing the trigger.

I don’t enjoy being accused of ignorance or lack of compassion because my views on MY diabetes are different to yours. (I know you didn’t explicitly say this : I’m not trying to put words in your mouth).

I get the feeling this reply is to me? I ask as isnt clear if it is or not. My post, which you seem to be replying to, was not a reply to you. it is a general post, commenting on the responses from the whole of this thread.

I am sorry if you thought i was directing my reply to you personally. If i had been reply to you, I would have used the small reply button at the bottom left hand side of your post. I used the 'write your reply' box, as it is a general reply. perhaps you are unaware of the two different reply buttons?

 

[HSSS]

It was a general reply that included your comments too, as I thought yours was too. My apologies if I was mistaken or misled in my reply.

I often don’t use the specific reply button, only when addressing a particular poster which I wasn’t specifically meaning to on this occasion.

 

[briped]

I wish there was a thread for those of us who do all the best things, and still cant lose weight etc. I would hide out there, away from the misinformed ones who blame others for their condition.

But there is. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/support-thread-for-those-of-us-who-dont-lose-weight.112253/, but please don't hide out there. I, for one, would miss your posts.

 

[Deleted member 371625]

only if you have a faulty insulin response. Otherwise, no it doesnt increase your chances of becoming a type 2 diabetic.

If you don't know your genetic risk which is true for most (if not all) of us, the poor lifestyle does increase your risk.
And if it doesn't increase T2DM risk, it increases heart disease and cancer risk amongst many other conditions.

 

[Deleted member 371625]

I am finding your posts very difficult. You don't seem to understand that some of us put on weight and became lethargic through no fault of our own.

Yes of course I knew that being overweight brought risks to my health, what I didn't know was how to stop putting on weight. Mainstream advice just made things worse at least in the long term and let's face it it's the long term that really matters. I didn't even know I was depressed because I had always been like that. I didn't know I had repressed memories because...they were repressed. I didn't know that diet drinks messed up your metabolism and gut and left you at a greater risk of T2. I didn't know that regularly consuming fewer calories than I needed would result in weight gain long term. I didn't know that walking 2 miles a day would simply make my body used to the exercise so that when I couldn't walk because of illness the weight gain would be rapid. I didn't know that when I sought help for my unexplained weight gain that I would need counselling and anti-depressants. I didn't know that when the repressed memories came to light I would have PTSD which would set me back further. It was not a lifestyle choice to have to deal with PTSD and depression. It was not a lifestyle choice to be fat.

It is however a choice to be compassionate to others when they have had different experiences to your own.

I am glad I am me.

I do not judge other people.
If I could look in the mirror and say that I was not responsible for my condition in any way, then I would be happy to do so. However, in my case this is not true.
It is up to each of us to judge our own level of responsibility ourselves, and not really anyone's business to judge someone else.

 

[Deleted member 371625]

You are absolutely correct. although you cannot deny bad luck plays a massive part? Unless you are saying the people who live terribly unhealthy lives, smoke etc. And live to a ripe old age are not lucky? if they are then the reverse simply has to be true! But this is about blame not luck.

Most people do not suffer with depression, are people with depression to blame because they never went out and lived life to the full? Suicidal people to blame because they never spent enough time at the circus? Many older people are very active into their 90's + so are the ones that are not with mobility issues to blame because they never did tai chi 5 times a week? If no one ever drove a car, no one would ever die in road traffic accident, are motorists to blame for the thousands of road deaths a year?

If we are to blame, we are all to blame for everything. the marathon runners are to blame for the plastic water bottles, the meat eaters are to blame for the methane the cows fart out, astronauts are to blame for the pollution the rockets cause.

humankind is to blame for progression.

lets get some long sticks and poke people we walk past in the street for the thing they are to blame for.

Or is it just type 2 dia ****** betics?

Jeeez im grumpy today

Edited by moderator for language

I don't, and never have denied the part played by luck (or genetic inheritance).
All we can do is improve our chances, we can never eliminate our chances of getting T2DM or even be sure of developing it no matter what we do.
I think of it like Russian roulette of sorts, where healthy weight/ exercise means one chamber is loaded but unhealthy/ no exercise means 3 chambers loaded. After that it is pure luck.

And yes, the same applies to some other conditions but not to others. Few people would deny living on doughnuts and burgers and fries increases your chances of heart disease (and probably cancer too). Also driving a car at 100mph is probably more likely to result in a fatal accident than driving at 50mph.
With current knowledge it would be difficult to know what risk factors are associated with illnesses such as depression. It isn't one of the conditions normally connected with lifestyle so probably isn't relevant for this discussion.

 

[lucylocket61]

And if it doesn't increase T2DM risk, it increases heart disease and cancer risk amongst many other conditions.

In this thread i am only focussing on type 2 diabetes.

 

[zand]

Last December I decided to walk to my son's house (3 miles away) so that I could get an electrician round for him as my son had to be at work. I couldn't drive there as there was too much snow. When I got about half way I slipped on the ice and broke my wrist. I continued to my son's house, phoned the electrician and waited for him and then took painkillers and walked to the hospital to be treated. Then I walked home (up a massive hill). 7 miles in all. I had previously broken bones (rib and sternum) in a freak accident at a football stadium in Germany, so this meant there was concern that I may have osteoporosis, ( I was 60 years old) so I needed bone scans.

Now the great news is that my bones were fine. Not even osteopenia. My bones were as strong as the average 30 year old woman! Yep all that extra weight I have been carrying around for years has strengthened my bones. So should I judge slim women who have the misfortune of having osteoporosis? Of course not, but then why do people judge me for being fat and being T2? I just don't get it, I really don't. It is not my fault that I am fat. It is not my fault that I have T2.

 

[ickihun]

I often recall the song "I am what I am!". If I want to try and improve my health, no matter my health status, then what is the problem?
If not diabetic then a woman premenopause age or post menopausal has other health risks.
Should i forsee every health condition caused by hormones and eat or exercise to the recommendations otherwise we are at fault? Where do you draw the line?
I am active (but in pain). I am on a 800cals diet (but I'm hungry). However I'm losing weight BUT
no change to the fact I'm on insulin for type2 diabetes.
So yes it helps but..... I am what I am!

 

[Mbaker]

Opposite to the title "I DID CAUSE MY CONDITION" (through carb / sugar ignorance) In the November of 2014 I felt fine and decided that in December I would go on a health kick. The major changes to my diet were an increase in breakfast oats (no sugar or similar), increased grapes, bananas, dates, orange juice every day along with home made banana and soda bread. I was probably pre-diabetic before December with no symptoms, and the dramatic increase in basically sugar for around 4 weeks definitely pushed me over the edge. The worse thing was whilst getting the thirst I was committing what I now know to be diabetic suicide, by drinking more orange juice, then more and more - ignorance is a bad enemy. I am sure the continual orange juice drinking to quench thirst put my HbA1c into the stratosphere of 134. Powers that be just educate punters on what carbs are, an educated me would have made appropriate choices.