In a bit of a state

lisa131067

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello - my name is Lisa. I'm a 57 year old who was diagnosed with type 2 four years ago. Since then I've managed to keep in range with my HBA1C with readings of 52-56. Today I had my first reading of 62. I have a really healthy vegetarian diet - eat no cakes, biscuits, chocs, alcohol, bread, crisps, pasta or potatoes. And I thought I was doing ok but this reading has put me into a spin. I'm about 3 stone overweight and due to only just being in menopause finding it really hard to lose weight despite the diet. I don't exercise every day but do at least 3-4 times a week including about 3 hours of walking on a weekend. My dilemma is that I really don't want to take metformin - I am anxious about the possible side effects and i don't like the idea of being on meds for the rest of my life. I m in a bit of a bad state mentally as I don't know what else i can do and the nurse at my doctors is no help at all, just goes through the motions on the phone as quickly as possible. I don't know if a reading of 62 is really bad, whether it will get worse and whether there is anything I can do to make myself better (I feel like a terrible failure), Id really appreciate any advice. I also don't know if NOT going on metformin will cause me all sorts of health complications. Feeling lost and sad. Sorry this sounds so dramatic - it's affected me really badly as I feel out of control and that I don't have enough info. Any advice/thoughts would be SO welcome and appreciated. Lisa :)
 

Martinstainer

Member
Messages
10
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi Lisa, I was on metformin for some time and didn’t suffer any major side effects. Being on meds for the rest of your life isn’t uncommon, most GPs prescribe statins once you get over 50 as these have several benefits in older life. Your diabetic nurse should redo the test in three months if it is concerning you and see where it is then. Hope this helps, Martin
 
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MrsA2

Expert
Messages
6,740
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello - my name is Lisa. I'm a 57 year old who was diagnosed with type 2 four years ago. Since then I've managed to keep in range with my HBA1C with readings of 52-56. Today I had my first reading of 62. I have a really healthy vegetarian diet - eat no cakes, biscuits, chocs, alcohol, bread, crisps, pasta or potatoes. And I thought I was doing ok but this reading has put me into a spin. I'm about 3 stone overweight and due to only just being in menopause finding it really hard to lose weight despite the diet. I don't exercise every day but do at least 3-4 times a week including about 3 hours of walking on a weekend. My dilemma is that I really don't want to take metformin - I am anxious about the possible side effects and i don't like the idea of being on meds for the rest of my life. I m in a bit of a bad state mentally as I don't know what else i can do and the nurse at my doctors is no help at all, just goes through the motions on the phone as quickly as possible. I don't know if a reading of 62 is really bad, whether it will get worse and whether there is anything I can do to make myself better (I feel like a terrible failure), Id really appreciate any advice. I also don't know if NOT going on metformin will cause me all sorts of health complications. Feeling lost and sad. Sorry this sounds so dramatic - it's affected me really badly as I feel out of control and that I don't have enough info. Any advice/thoughts would be SO welcome and appreciated. Lisa :)
You've said what you don't eat, but could you share with what you do eat?
And when you eat?
It may be that a few small changes make a big difference..

And you may want to check out the podcasts and articles by Real Life Medicine, run by 2 lady Australian doctors who really understand the difficulties menopause brings
 

lisa131067

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
You've said what you don't eat, but could you share with what you do eat?
And when you eat?
It may be that a few small changes make a big difference..

And you may want to check out the podcasts and articles by Real Life Medicine, run by 2 lady Australian doctors who really understand the difficulties menopause brings
Yes sure. I have four meals a day - a typical day would be - beans on keto bread toast for breakfast, salad for lunch, a stir fry or home made vegetable curry for tea with cauliflower rice and then a Greek yogurt or salad or fruit for supper. I drink water or tea. As I am always very hungry I have big portions of salad and veg and need to eat very often (every four hours). My first meal is about 9am and my last meal 9pm.its mainly all veg with some pulses some fruit and some proteins like nuts and seeds and occasionally peanut butter, eggs etc. I try to avoid fats also to control
My cholesterol. And mostly cook things from scratch. Would really value your input and experience. Thanks ever so much.
 

lisa131067

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi Lisa, I was on metformin for some time and didn’t suffer any major side effects. Being on meds for the rest of your life isn’t uncommon, most GPs prescribe statins once you get over 50 as these have several benefits in older life. Your diabetic nurse should redo the test in three months if it is concerning you and see where it is then. Hope this helps, Martin
Thanks very much Martin it’s good to hear metformin worked smoothly for you and am guessing you got things under control so don’t take it any more?
 

lisa131067

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
You've said what you don't eat, but could you share with what you do eat?
And when you eat?
It may be that a few small changes make a big difference..

And you may want to check out the podcasts and articles by Real Life Medicine, run by 2 lady Australian doctors who really understand the difficulties menopause brings
I’ll definitely try those podcasts thanks. This feels like such helpful and practical advice already. Really appreciate it.
 

MrsA2

Expert
Messages
6,740
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Yes sure. I have four meals a day - a typical day would be - beans on keto bread toast for breakfast, salad for lunch, a stir fry or home made vegetable curry for tea with cauliflower rice and then a Greek yogurt or salad or fruit for supper. I drink water or tea. As I am always very hungry I have big portions of salad and veg and need to eat very often (every four hours). My first meal is about 9am and my last meal 9pm.its mainly all veg with some pulses some fruit and some proteins like nuts and seeds and occasionally peanut butter, eggs etc. I try to avoid fats also to control
My cholesterol. And mostly cook things from scratch. Would really value your input and experience. Thanks ever so much.
Your head is already in a spin, so just realise it's going to spin some more...

A lot of us T2s in here, and across the world, are finding we can lose weight and lower our bg by adopting a form of eating called low carb. There are many variations of this and you will find which suits your body best.

But, as you have discovered, just cutting down on carbs leaves us hungry because the second half of the equation is to up the healthy fats and protein so you get full, satiated and have the right nutrients.

Also a lots of the so called "healthy" foods aren't so good for us, that includes beans, pulses and fruits, and even the starchy or sweet veg such as carrots or sweetcorn.

Then, eating multiple times a day means the body is having to work multiple times a day and because our insulin responses are broken, they never get a chance to start healing. Which is why most of us do some form of fasting, anything from skipping breakfast to whole days or more.

All this is probably messing with your head right now so I suggest changing nothing initially except to get a cgm and see how your body is reacting to your current way of eating. (You can do finger pricks as a cheaper option but it takes a lot of management and a quick cgm would probably be less stressful for you). While you are doing this, you can start researching and reading around about lchf and about fasting.

There's a huge amount to learn, and a lot to "unlearn" so don't rush, breathe and know its a marathon, not a sprint, but you will get there. There's loads of support and advice on here.

One final question, you mention vegetarian diet. Is that becuase you think its healthier, or for all the animal and planet reasons? I ask because it is harder to achieve a nutrient rich lchf way of eating if vegetarian or vegan. Not impossible just harder. By contrast some people get best results by carnivore once a day. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. Whichever route you take There's help here.

As you can see I'm not good at typing so will ask others to comments with the main links by tagging them
@JoKalsbeek for nutrients thingy
@Rachox for meters info
And anyone else with useful links. Most regulars put them in their signatures for easy reference
 

Rachox

Oracle
Retired Moderator
Messages
17,248
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thanks for the tag @MrsA2 , hi @lisa131067 and welcome to the forum, if you want to go down the testing route, which I recommend , here’s some info with links for UK meters, and to be clear I have no commercial connections with any of the companies mentioned.



HOME HEALTH have the Gluco Navii, which is a fairly new model and seems to be getting good reviews.

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-produ...ose-meter-test-strips-choose-mmol-l-or-mg-dl/



Links to the strips for future orders:

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/glucose-navii-blood-glucose-test-strips-50-strip-pack/



Then they sell the older SD Code Free, details to be found here!

https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/





SPIRIT HEALTHCARE have a meter called the Tee2 + which is quite popular:

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...e2-blood-glucose-meter?variant=19264017268793



The strips are to be found here:

https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...py-of-tee2-test-strips?variant=19264017367097



If there is a choice of units of measurement then ‘mmol/L’ are the standard units in the UK, ‘mg/dl’ in the US, other countries may vary.



Don’t forget to check the box if you have diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for all meters and strips)



If you’d like to try a free 15 day trial of the Freestyle LIBRE 2 plus follow this link:

Sampling | Diabetes Care | Abbott



Dexcom also offer a free trial of their Dexcom one + here

The Dexcom ONE+ CGM (Continuous Glucose Montoring) system | Dexcom
 

Martinstainer

Member
Messages
10
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Thanks very much Martin it’s good to hear metformin worked smoothly for you and am guessing you got things under control so don’t take it any more?
Things didn’t quite go to plan, ended up in hospital with DKA and sepsis, now taking insulin injections
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,595
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello - my name is Lisa. I'm a 57 year old who was diagnosed with type 2 four years ago. Since then I've managed to keep in range with my HBA1C with readings of 52-56. Today I had my first reading of 62. I have a really healthy vegetarian diet - eat no cakes, biscuits, chocs, alcohol, bread, crisps, pasta or potatoes. And I thought I was doing ok but this reading has put me into a spin. I'm about 3 stone overweight and due to only just being in menopause finding it really hard to lose weight despite the diet. I don't exercise every day but do at least 3-4 times a week including about 3 hours of walking on a weekend. My dilemma is that I really don't want to take metformin - I am anxious about the possible side effects and i don't like the idea of being on meds for the rest of my life. I m in a bit of a bad state mentally as I don't know what else i can do and the nurse at my doctors is no help at all, just goes through the motions on the phone as quickly as possible. I don't know if a reading of 62 is really bad, whether it will get worse and whether there is anything I can do to make myself better (I feel like a terrible failure), Id really appreciate any advice. I also don't know if NOT going on metformin will cause me all sorts of health complications. Feeling lost and sad. Sorry this sounds so dramatic - it's affected me really badly as I feel out of control and that I don't have enough info. Any advice/thoughts would be SO welcome and appreciated. Lisa :)
Hello Lisa,

Oh my.... I'll start here, as that's what @MrsA2 asked for: https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html Slight warning: it is written with omnivores in mind, so please don't be offended by all the animal products in there.

Second thing, also very, very important: Do NOT feel like a failure. You're left to your own devices and have to figure things out on your own. Considering that, your blood glucose could've been one heck of a lot worse. Really.

Metformin, well, some of us -like me- respond badly to it, others are on it for decades without problems, others can use it for a while and move away from it at a later date. Just keep in mind that it doesn't do a whole heck of a lot about what you ingest. It'll keep your liver from dumping a lot of glucose when it thinks it's being helpful (in the morning, or when you're stressed or ill), and improve your insulin sensitivity a smidge, but that's it. It's not a magic bullet, it's just an aid. And there's no shame in trying whether it suits you. Metformin makes it harder for your body to absorb vitamin B12 though, which on a vegetarian diet you're likely having to supplement as it is. So if you take it, have your vitamin levels checked regularly. Deficiency could mean cramping, neuropathy and other issues you don't want to deal with, on top of everything else.

Now, the food... I'm not surprised you're hungry all the time. I see very little protein in your diet, and practically no fats. There's three macro nutrients that can fuel our bodies. Humans generally run on carbs, as that's the thing our bodies find easiest to turn into fuel for muscles, brain, bodily functions and what have you. Cut the carbs, and it's the fats and protein that are burnt for fuel. And with the carbs gone... And little proteins and fats in your diet? You're running on empty all the time. There's nothing to burn. It's not just about cutting carbs, it's about keeping (healthy) fats up and protein moderate. What you're on now is more of a starvation diet, which isn't even doing what you're hoping for it to, likely because of things like fruits and pulses still driving your blood glucose up.

So while I'm not really very familiar with your method of eating, if you can find your way to more eggs, (most of the cholesterol we have circling around in our bodies we make ourselves, it's not per se from what we eat), avocado for fats, more peanut butter (the kind just made of peanuts, no nonsensical additives), maybe add in other things like hard cheeses, full fat cream, butter etc... https://www.dietdoctor.com/search?s=vegetarian might help some in that direction. The idea is also to just eat until you are full... You're not supposed to go hungry on a keto diet. I mean, I'm rarely hungry and I only eat twice a day. As @MrsA2 said, if the vegetarian way of eating has more to do with thinking it is healthy rather than religious or personal values, it might be time to re-evaluate. If not, it's not easy, but it's not impossible either. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/vegetarian-diet-forum.71/ is a relatively quiet area of the forum, but you could learn a lot there to help, possibly.

Hang in there, eh. And don't kick yourself around so much. You do not even remotely deserve that sort of treatment from anyone, least of all yourself.

Hugs,
Jo
 
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KennyA

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
3,855
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello - my name is Lisa. I'm a 57 year old who was diagnosed with type 2 four years ago. Since then I've managed to keep in range with my HBA1C with readings of 52-56. Today I had my first reading of 62. I have a really healthy vegetarian diet - eat no cakes, biscuits, chocs, alcohol, bread, crisps, pasta or potatoes. And I thought I was doing ok but this reading has put me into a spin. I'm about 3 stone overweight and due to only just being in menopause finding it really hard to lose weight despite the diet. I don't exercise every day but do at least 3-4 times a week including about 3 hours of walking on a weekend. My dilemma is that I really don't want to take metformin - I am anxious about the possible side effects and i don't like the idea of being on meds for the rest of my life. I m in a bit of a bad state mentally as I don't know what else i can do and the nurse at my doctors is no help at all, just goes through the motions on the phone as quickly as possible. I don't know if a reading of 62 is really bad, whether it will get worse and whether there is anything I can do to make myself better (I feel like a terrible failure), Id really appreciate any advice. I also don't know if NOT going on metformin will cause me all sorts of health complications. Feeling lost and sad. Sorry this sounds so dramatic - it's affected me really badly as I feel out of control and that I don't have enough info. Any advice/thoughts would be SO welcome and appreciated. Lisa :)
I'm not going to repeat what others have said.However, you say:

Since then I've managed to keep in range with my HBA1C with readings of 52-56. Today I had my first reading of 62.

HbA1c in 52-56 is not "in range". A normal HbA1c is usually around 38, and almost always somewhere between 36 and 41. Current NICE guidelines about target HbA1cs haven't been amended for over 20 years and take a very pessimistic view of the possibility of doing anything constructive about lowering levels. They encourage seeing blood glucose at diabetic levels as some kind of success.

The evidence from people on this forum is that it is possible and practical to achieve "normal" blood glucose levels.

The other thing is that given the allowable inaccuracies in the HbA1c testing, a variation in a test score of 56 to 62 may not be all that significant. A true value of (say) 58 could generate either result.

Best of luck. I found my HbA1c fell very quickly simply by eliminating almost all carbs. Since then (over five years) I've never had a out of range blood test, lost around six stone, and never been hungry.
 

lisa131067

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello Lisa,

Oh my.... I'll start here, as that's what @MrsA2 asked for:

Hang in there, eh. And don't kick yourself around so much. You do not even remotely deserve that sort of treatment from anyone, least of all yourself.

Hugs,
Jo
Jo - thank you so much. I appreciate it more than you could ever know. Off to look at those links now :happy: Thanks for giving me hope! Lisa