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Information for newbies and basic stuff.

Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by Lamont D, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    I think there are some inaccuracies in the "basics" and it would be good if you could change it:

    You write: "anything below 3.5 is a hypo"
    ---->Actually a hypo is below 4, not 3.5.

    Moreover, some people have symptoms in the (low) normal range.

    You also write: "a low carbohydrate intake is usually recommended"
    ----> That's not true. Usually a moderate carbohydrate intake is recommended, with slightly more fat and proteins. And more complex carbohydrates and less simple carbohydrates like sugars.
    Of course a low carbohydrate diet can work for people with RH, but it is not especially recommended.

    Also: "Flour of all grains are to be avoided"
    That's not correct. For example, whole wheat bread combined with a fat/protein source (cheese for example) is slower digested and doesn't necessarily cause problems.

    Hope you can update this.
     
  2. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Hi @Bryce74
    Welcome to our forum and I'm grateful for your input.

    You have already done that by your post, many thanks!

    This basic thread, was to make those who have, could have all types of Hypoglycaemia read for themselves that what knowledge we have gleaned is only a start.

    We are all different, for instance, I have late reactive hypoglycaemia and an intolerance to most foods containing carbs, but not gluten, whereas one of the mods,
    has T2, RH before that and a gluten intolerance.
    Trying to put in and be accurate is impossible, it is just a guide.
    The forum as a whole advocates lowering carb intake as a healthy option but is open to other ideas that recognise different ways to treat their condition.
    We as RH ers, have to find what works for us individually, I have no idea, where you come from, nationality, race, creed, availability of food, rich, poor, able bodied, young old or a doctor, nurse or specialist. Or more important, which foods you are intolerant to.
    We have to be careful what we recommend. It is against forum rules to diagnose, only offer help from our experience, and advise accordingly.

    The point about a hypo reading depends on the individual and the condition, because of the (elder) members and asking for professional advice. 3.5 was agreed.
    However, we have so many posters, saying it is too low, some say it is too high, most don't care enough because, the glucometer can be out by some degrees testing. They are not always accurate. The reason behind testing is to find your blood glucose levels at that point and record. Testing is about gaining control.
    Hypos should be treated as soon as possible. With RH it should be different because of the rebound effect. But still should be treated. We all have different levels when you have awareness of a hypo.

    In the end, it is all about finding your balance that helps you be as healthy as you can be by avoiding the foods that trigger the overshoot response from your pancreas!
    Through my experience, it is the insulin response that is the reason for the symptoms and avoiding foods. It is not low GI foods that do this but the insulin index, would help any RH er, be more aware of how and why they 'react'!

    Your input is essential and the more diverse the treatment, that has got to be more educational than being closed to ideas.

    Have you ever tried fasting? Because, that hasn't been included either!
    Best wishes and again welcome to our forum.
     
  3. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Lamont, the below 4.0 mmol/L (or 70 mg/dL or less) figure as a definition of hypoglycemia is generally, medically accepted.
    And yes, glucose meters can be 10-15% off, but that should not change the definition of hypoglycemia.

    "The forum as a whole advocates lowering carb intake as a healthy option but is open to other ideas that recognise different ways to treat their condition."

    The forum is mainly for diabetics and for them carohydrates have a different meaning. Too much carbohydrates and their blood sugar will rise and stay high.
    For people with hypoglycemia it is more important that there aren't spikes in blood sugar. I am not saying that low carb won't work for some people with hypoglycemia, but it simply is not generally recommended.
    In general a moderate amount of slow carbohydrates is recommended.

    I feel you cannot base "basic info" for others on your own experience or of other forum members.
    If you give basic info, you should give info that is generally accepted.
     
  4. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry Bryce you do not seem to understand RH.
    It is caused by going high first due to refined carbs. Then producing too much late insulin, then going low due to high self produced insulin.

    The only way to stop the roller coaster is to cut down to minimum on refined carbs.
    regards
    Derek

     
  5. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Hi, again, generally medically accepted treatment, what has people with diabetes and Hypoglycaemia go searching for answers because for most, any amount of carbs, wether slow acting, complex or wholesome low GI foods are nearly as bad as high GI carbs. I have RH, I have a carb intolerance, a lot of RH ers have nearly the same. No one is exactly the same.
    Generally accepted treatment does not work! I was recommended the eat well plate and to eat every three hours to offset the hypos. I became a lot worse off.
    Avoidance of carbs, sugars and fruit, in a low carbohydrate lifestyle does work!
    But by degrees, some can eat certain amounts of carbs, fruits. You cannot define it.
    It is what triggers the overshoot!
    Avoid the trigger, in other words the hyper, caused by those foods and you avoid the hypos!
    Your tolerance to carbs is why you need to keep records and use a glucometer to find those foods.
    You are very fortunate to be able to eat those starchy carbs, if you have Hypoglycaemia of any type!
     
  6. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    I am sorry Derek, but it seems you did not read my message very well.
    Nowhere I said that refined carbs aren't a big problem for us. I just said that a low carb diet is not generally recommended for reactive hypoglycemia. What is recommended, is a moderate carb diet with little refined carbs.
     
  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    By whom?
     
  8. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Sorry Lamont, but you were ill-advised, the "eat well plate" is not generally recommended for people with reactive hypoglycemia.
    And some people with hypoglycemia need to eat every 3 hrs, others every 2 hrs - that's different from person to person.
    But advising people with reactive hypoglycemia to stick to a low-card diet is ill advised and not according to recommendations.
    Of course in your basics you could say that people who don't do well on a diet that is generally recommended for hypoglycemia could try a low carb diet, but again and again: A low card diet is NOT advised for people just diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia.
    A low carb diet can unnecessarily restrict food items and complicate composing a healthy diet.
    The first thing people with reactive hypoglycemia have to do is *moderate* their carbohydrate intake (not go low), and replace refined carbohydrates (sugars) by complex carbohydrates, and add more fats and proteins to slow digestion.

    Again, THAT is the generally accepted advice, be it here in the Netherlands, in the UK or in the US.
    Don't make your experience the advice for all people. That would be plain wrong.
     
  9. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    By the general medical establishment. I see you advocate ultra low carb. That is fine, and of course there are always dissenting voices but I don't want to go into that. Point is that if you pretend to give basic information, you should give information that is widely accepted.

    An example: Personally I don't believe in the cholesterol and statins narrative. But if I were to write about cholesterol, I would first mention that doctors in general say that cholesterol causes cardiovascular disease and that therefore they prescribe statins to lower it.
    And only then I would add my own opinion. So people can make up their own mind.
    But it is simply wrong to present your own or a dissenting opinion as "basic info".

    At least, that's my stance.

    Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying low carb is good or bad, I feel neutral towards it, but it is not mainstream advice for people with reactive hypoglycemia.
     
  10. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Once again, you have misread my intention and my experience.
    My endocrinologist who actually diagnosed me and saved my life has continually advised eating a minimum of complex carbs to help with my balance of protein, fats and the very few carbs I can tolerate. It has taken me, three years to have him agree to my so called restrictive diet. It is not a restricted diet.
    It is healthy for me.
    Generally accepted treatment is too vague, not individual, not diagnostic. It is a broad spectrum of advice.
    I was told to eat low fat yoghurt with fruit, by another endocrinologist, who clearly misunderstood the symptoms and had no idea what happened when I ate what would be termed a normal plate of healthy food.
    What is healthy for most is not healthy for me.
    The world is changing, maybe if you challenged the generally accepted advice, you might be surprised of how to control your blood glucose levels.

    Best wishes
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Ah right those people that told me my Type 2 was a chronic progressive disease and that I would end up injecting insulin?
    That general medical establishment.. glad we got that sorted out.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    [QUOTE="Bryce74, post: 1789118, member:

    Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying low carb is good or bad, I feel neutral towards it, but it is not mainstream advice for people with reactive hypoglycemia.[/QUOTE]

    Mainstream advice for reactive hypoglycaemia is wrong, because there has not been the research done to quantify that statement,.
    It may be so in the Netherlands but, why is it the same advice given to T2s?
    The world is changing!
     
  13. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Nonsense. I did not misread your intention nor your experience.
    Both belong to you and it is not up to me to doubt them.

    What I can't agree with is presenting one's own, personal experience/opinion as general advice. And THAT is exactly what you are doing.
    Obviously we won't agree as you stick to your own experience and can't accept it can't be used as general advice.
    I'll talk to moderators about this. For me, this is a serious issue, everybody is entitled to his own opinion and experience and free to talk about them in a forum but to present one's experience as "basic stuff" in a sticky topic is seriously misleading people. Sorry.
     
  14. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Type 2 diabetes is not the same as reactive hypoglycemia.
    And doctors and the medical establishment are not infallible. It's great that you succeeded to stop your progression of diabetes.
     
  15. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Indeed but your unwarranted faith in the general medical establishment may well be a little misplaced in respect of a lot of things not only Type 2 where their fallibility is very evident.

    Also if you read the sticky the first point under treatment which you seem to have mysteriously missed is

    "Treatment.

    This is open to discussion."

    So rather than take people to task for what is, after all is said and done, simply your opinion maybe have a little humility and engage in a more measured manner? Just a thought.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    And immediately after it says: "However, a low carbohydrate intake is usually recommended."
    And THAT is simply not correct. Not for reactive hypoglycemia.
    Discussion and exchange of ideas is what a forum is for, I am all for it, but misleading people is a completely different thing. Especially when it is done in a sticky message and meant to give "basic info" to the casual reader.
    That's it, I don't feel I have to explain myself further to you.
     
  17. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    ... many eminent doctors would disagree as would hundreds on this forum. I'll go with the majority who've experienced the side effects.
     
  18. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    That's why I said " Personally I don't believe in the cholesterol and statins narrative."
     
  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Have you had RH Bryce?

    Low carb cured mine and now I can go from breakfast to my evening meal without eating.
    And I bet I take on more nutrients than the carb eaters.
    Derek
     
  20. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    I have had RH all my life. Runs in the family, probably.
    I am not into low carb as it leads to high protein and/or fat intakes.
     
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