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Discussion in 'Reactive Hypoglycemia' started by Lamont D, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    I "heard" what you said. I don't "see" the evidence, at least not in my experience. Research is better than blind trust
     
  2. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Seems you misunderstood me: Personally I believe cholesterol as a cause of atherosclerose is much overrated, even questionable as a cause and statins are seldom indicated and a source of -sometimes very serious- adverse effects.
     
  3. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    By now, I have read and understood your feelings towards my advice, I have thought long and hard and have adjusted that sentence.
    I do hope that you will want to read it before commenting further.
    However, as I am always open to how RH is seen to those and you clearly have a understanding. Can you tell me what tests they use in The Netherlands to diagnose RH? I would expect better treatment than our own health service in the UK.
    Do you have specialist endocrinologists?
    What particular foods are you intolerant to?
    I have a lactose intolerance, do you have similar?
    Are you gluten intolerant?
     
  4. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    It's not just that sentence. I think you should state that the general advice is that with reactive hypoglycemia a reduction to a moderate amount of carbohydrate is advised and that these carbohydrates should be mostly complex carbohydrates (contrary to refined ones).
    After that you could state that some/many people here in the forum follow a low carb diet. Point is that if you pretend to give basic info, you cannot leave out the generally/widely accepted advice.

    Same -and I repeat myself- with the (below) 4.0 mmol/l figure as a definition of hypoglycemia and not 3.5.

    I was lucky to be diagnosed in our neighbour country Belgium by a knowing endocrinologist.
    He used the oral glucose tolerance test and measured glucose, c-peptides, insuline and a few other things.
    Afterwards my Dutch GP called the diagnosis "a wild tale by foreign doctors".... needless to say that I never saw that GP again.

    The Dutch health care system is almost as much a disaster as the UK NHS.
    Fortunately I have also access to the Belgian health care system and live close to the border with Belgium so now I have an excellent Belgian GP and if I need a specialist, I visit a Belgian one, too.
     
  5. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    Perhaps I did ... but I'm very anti statins and could easily run a crusade against them
     
  6. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Well they were the ancestral foods for our preagricultural forebears.

    Unless one was a card carrying Neanderthal vegan who wouldn't eat his gaint groundsloth burgers. :)
    Derek
     
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  7. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Oh, then we can shake hands :) Dr Kendrick rings a bell, I guess? :)
     
  8. Mike d

    Mike d Type 2 · Expert

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    He sure does ... :)
     
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  9. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    It's not that simple. First of all there are many thousands of years of evolution between us and them.
    And secondly, both tribes that eat mostly carbohydrates and tribes that mainly eat meat have been discovered and apparantly in good health. So, personally, I don't believe in the carbs versus fats/protein "war". I believe in moderation for everything but on the other hand, if necessary I certainly would try going low carb if nothing else would work.
    I just don't believe in dogmas and cult-like things.
     
  10. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Ten thousand years is a tick on the clock of time. There is very little difference between us and our sapiens ancestors of 40,000 years ago.

    I think some likel to argue, but most of us are comfortable and settled in our current situation if it works?
    If sitting on the fence makes some enjoy having a sore backside, good luck to them.
    The investment of time in this thread is not worth the energy!:)
    D.
     
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  11. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    You might not be injecting insulin which is a good thing of course, but who says your diabetes is not chronic and or progressive?
    Did (very?) low carb cure you, can you normally eat carbs now?

    I also read in your blog you had a coronary calcium score test. Apart from the fact that this test can be useless (my aunt had one, and 6 months later she had a severe heart attack), since (or not long before you had the test) you changed your diet while the radiologist told you to continue like you did before...
    I hope that with the sudden change in diet, your next calcium score test won't be worse. But anyway, calcium score tests have limited value.
    You are aware that you are using yourself as a guinea pig, I hope?
     
  12. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Sorry to say but you yourself decided to chime in.
    And does it really work, low carb? Maybe, maybe not. I feel neutral toward it. I believe it can help diabetics with blood sugar. Logical, more fat, more satisfied, weight loss, less carbs, lower blood sugar. But the greater amount of fats and proteins *might* be very dentrimental in the long run. But severe diabetes is too, of course.
    If I had severe diabetes, I would give it a try. If I had "light" diabetes, I wouldn't.
     
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    My last 4 HbA1c maybe.. and why would I want to eat the things that made me ill in the first place.
    That would be completely stupid don't you think?

    You think that processed carbs are a part of a "normal" diet then I'm afraid you have given your mind over to the marketing guys.

    As for the CAC scan I think that looking at plaque build up is a far better method than looking at the levels of cholesterol in the blood as a proxy. I thought you would at least agree with that. As for your Aunt what was her score?

    The radiologist made no mention of diet so I'm not sure where you got that info from and I had already been ketogenic for 18 months before the scan.

    If you had bothered to read my signature where I am quite happy to share almost all my health markers you would see that I happily admit that I am using myself as a guinea pig. I try all this stuff out on myself which is why I am currently fasting.

    I see that you have decided to share nothing and instead seem to engage in overly criticising others. I do wonder exactly what your agenda is here?
     
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  14. Bryce74

    Bryce74 · Guest

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    Your HbA1c doesn't prove you were cured, it just proves you keep the values in check.
    You were criticizing the medical establishment (and no, I am not part of them) for telling you your condition is chronic and progressive.
    Well, if you were right and if you were not chronically suffering from diabetes and cured , you would be eating (more) carbohydrates again.

    I never said that processed carbs are part of a "normal" diet. Refined carbs are not ok but complex carbohydrates are part of a healthy diet.

    I don't know my aunts' exact score but at least it was good enough not to worry.
    I agree a CAC scan is better than looking at cholesterol levels but unfortunately calcium score is just a little part of the whole story. I am not saying it is completely useless, it can give some information but it is not highly predictable.
    It costs a lot of money and you get radiation:

    "A study based on computer modeling of radiation risk suggests that widespread screening for the buildup of calcium in the arteries using computed tomography scans would lead to an estimated 42 additional radiation-induced cancer cases per 100,000 men and 62 cases per 100,000 women, according to a new report."

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090713170655.htm

    Of course I don't know your history. I think CAC is good for people with symptoms suggestive of cardiovascular disease, but otherwise it's quite useless, because imagine if they had found something, what would you do? Start taking statins?

    As for the radiologist, it seems I misunderstood the text on your blog, my apologies.

    I have reactive hypoglycemia, so I I simply don't have much in common with diabetes patients, apart from, of course the hypo's, the diet and the burden of disease.

    Of course it's everyone's own decision to use him/herself as a guinea pig, as long as you are aware of it I am fine with it.

    And I have no agenda at all, just came here for my reactive glycemia and I reacted to a few posts, is all.
     
  15. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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  16. Ivey

    Ivey Reactive hypoglycemia · Member

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    Thanks for this, I have just started to look at my yogurt suspiciously, as I noticed a new brand I bought dropped my glucose horrendously!! I started at 80 (4.4 in UK) and found myself at 32 (1.8 in UK) 30 mins later. I thought I might have to cut dairy out but it's a big source of protein for me. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me and see what else I can come up with.

    Many Thanks,
    Ivey
     
  17. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    You get some bizarre results from foods if some cut your blood glucose back as you say! They sound like fast acting insulin.
    I would get checked out by endo if I were you.
     
  18. Ivey

    Ivey Reactive hypoglycemia · Member

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    I have seen 2 Endo doctors and they both say it's reactive hypoglycemia, a rare complication from gastric bypass surgery, as there is nothing wrong with my endocrine system. Even though my cortisol and C-Peptide tests came back low 4 days in a row (72hr fasting test). Right now seems like everything except salad, zucchini, chicken thighs, some fish, bison, lamb, green veg, a third of a carrot, less than a quarter cup of peas, water, coffee, tea, coconut water (the lowest in sugar I found is 8 grams per serving), bamboo shoots, bean sprouts, water chestnuts and broccoli don't drop my glucose. I have to be careful with sauces and condiment as they contain corn starch or other food starches which drop my glucose. I see my Endo again this week and will see what he says about my latests results and about my update on my glucose/food diary. I will just keep trying and testing and adding or subtracting from my food lists until they can give me more info. I am afraid to ask but am beginning to think this is a permanent condition?!?
     
  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear of your food limitations, Ivey.
    I know what its like because I have an adrenal tumour and can't get rid of sodium as well as R.H. Ones food choices are restricted.

    Sometimes gastric bypasses miss out the small intestine from what I have read and this improves the tolerance to carb content. But your situation seems to indicate you may have more issues than simply R.H.
    The foods that drop your b.g. perhaps raise it to a peak first, possibly c. 1hr after first bite?

    It seems you'll have to eat little and often.
    regards
    Derek
     
    #59 lindisfel, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:10 PM
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  20. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    What type of yoghurt was this, low fat, no fat, full fat, with fruit?
    You might not get the answers you are looking for.
    I believe you are already on the right track by eliminating the food that is upsetting you.
    You have normal fasting blood levels, your hba1c is in normal levels, you don't have endocrine issues.
    But, your RH from your surgery, means that your pancreas overshoots insulin.
    If you are not aware, since surgery, you first insulin response has grown weak, hence the spikes, you either get glucose dumping or you get a secondary insulin response which is the overshoot.
    Only when you don't trigger the secondary response do you avoid the after effects of RH. This is achieved as you have already discovered is by your food list.

    I have searched for years trying to find any research, but to no avail, I have read articles which misunderstand how it can be so horrible because of the normal health advice which doesn't take in to account why certain foods have to be avoided, how certain fats, certain so called healthy foods are not healthy for us. How processed foods have to be put back on the shelf. Why we have to cook from scratch to make certain that what we eat won't effect our health. Why we have to shop and recognise bad ingredients, even what or when it is beneficial to fast, if we can.
    There is no magic pill that will cure, though I take a drug (sitagliptin) that helps with spikes, but not the hypos if I don't eat properly.
    Wether it is permanent, I have no idea, but I don't want to take the risk, my battle for nearly twenty years was my hypo hell period, I'm not going back to that.
    The good news, is it can be controlled and by control, your health should improve. Having your blood sugar levels being in normal levels more and more, or being in ketosis, it will improve your symptoms and your health.
    I know this, because that is what has happened to me, I have been in ketosis for four years (ish), no hypos! Excellent health and fitness.
    This is the way I would encourage and advise anyone having the symptoms and diagnosis of Hypoglycaemia.

    By the way, I'm dairy intolerant, have been since childhood, it has got to be the lactose, which triggers the symptoms and response.

    Best wishes
     
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