Insulin making me fatter? :-(

Woody61

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Hi Gang

I am horrified to discover through reading these threads on Diabetes UK that using insulin can make me gain weight.. I am horrified I am already obese and have been cutting down and exercising and have been gaining weight I mentioned this to my 'Health care professional' who said it must be my portion size, nothing about using insulin will do this, I am considering going back on Gliclazide. what do you think? I am not a happy bunny, also I am considering surgery!
 
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Sean01

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I'm not and expert and I'm only T2 - using Metformin and not insulin, BUT I am also a weightlifter - training in strongman who is desperately trying to put some (just a bit) weight back on.
I lost over 6 stone in my first year (small portions) but have now settled at around 110 kilos. fat is still coming off but I am having trouble with building up muscle mass again - the reason - insulin. I control my blood sugars so tightly because long life is more important that trophies but by minimising insulin, I am prohibiting muscle gain.

So you are right - insulin can make you gain weight, but to be fair, insulin levels in your body may well be affected by portion size and what actually makes up your diet.

Not here to preach and I don't know your exact medical issues, weight, diet or the type of exercise you do, but, I try to keep to LCHF, watch the glycemic index and glycemic load on everything I do eat, watch portion sizes and exercise extremely hard twice a day. One session per day - very brisk uphill walk on a treadmill. Second session as per the first but followed by strength training session - about an hour.
 
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novorapidboi26

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I don't fully understand it myself but there is a link.......

being active and keeping the carbs down will help.......having meals with smaller carb load means less insulin, less insulin, means more accurate and efficient dose too....which will also help....

having surplus insulin in the system will probably be used towards storing fat.....
 
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There is a perception that insulin can make you gain weight.
Without insulin (or enough insulin), your body cannot gain energy from carbs: these carbs will stay as sugar in your blood (hence, high blood sugars). Instead, it will break down protein (I think) such as muscle to get energy. As a result, it is common for someone with untreated diabetes to lose weight. In fact, loss of weight is one of the symptoms for diabetes.
Once your blood sugars are reduced, your body is able to gain energy from carbs. As a. result, any weight loss (or control) due to the mechanisms I described above stop.
So, it is not the insulin that makes you put on weight but the lack of insulin which could make you lose weight (or gain less weight).
 
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lindisfel

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Hi Woody, if you have T2D, without carbs your body will need sufficient good fats to burn. Unless your a body builder you need to keep your protein down to c.1gm /kg of body weight / day else you could eventually have kidney problems. I you cut carbs and eat fats your demand for extra insulin will drop. People run marathons on fats and they don't hit the 'wall' like carb loaders, I am told, by sports gurus who believe in LCHF. T1D is a different disease and need insulin. T2D's have often flooded their systems already with their own insulin.
regards Derek
 
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bulkbiker

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Hi Gang

I am horrified to discover through reading these threads on Diabetes UK that using insulin can make me gain weight.. I am horrified I am already obese and have been cutting down and exercising and have been gaining weight I mentioned this to my 'Health care professional' who said it must be my portion size, nothing about using insulin will do this, I am considering going back on Gliclazide. what do you think? I am not a happy bunny, also I am considering surgery!

Assuming you are a Type 2 (as you have posted in the Type 2 Forum). It might be worth you checking out Dr Jason Fung and his take on treating Type 2 with insulin.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/category/lectures/type-2-diabetes-lecture-series/
Like a number of more modern thinking doctors he doubts that treating Insulin resistance with more insulin is a good idea.
Have a read around and see what you think?
 

TorqPenderloin

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@helensaramay explained the situation very well. I agree 100%. Insulin does not directly cause weight gain.

Hi Woody, if you have T2D, without carbs your body will need sufficient good fats to burn. Unless your a body builder you need to keep your protein down to c.1gm /kg of body weight / day else you could eventually have kidney problems.
For the record, there's nothing definitive to support that this is true. Excessive protein is only proven to be harmful to already damaged kidneys. There's nothing to suggest it can cause damage to healthy kidneys.
 
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lindisfel

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@helensaramay explained the situation very well. I agree 100%. Insulin does not directly cause weight gain.


For the record, there's nothing definitive to support that this is true. Excessive protein is only proven to be harmful to already damaged kidneys. There's nothing to suggest it can cause damage to healthy kidneys.
It all depends which guru you listen to, Torq!:) Since a lot of T2D's have stages of kidney disease as they get older, its rather academic what fit young people can consume in the way of protein. But this is not going to stop me having a 13oz sirloin when I got out for meal with my better half on Friday! :) Anyway Mercola says different to the other guru listed first on google.

Regarding insulin and weight, if a T2D cuts out carbs they produce less insulin and therefore lose weight. Hyper insulin in T2D's is implicated in the process of becoming fat, as many here have proved by cutting carbs. The young boy who Rangan Chattergee treated had a massive amount of insulin in his blood and his blood sugar for the time being was controlled. He was very obese and only when he cut his carbs and therefore cut his insulin production back did he lose weight. The link seems obvious to me, pedantism is not illuminating in this regard.
 
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Kristin251

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The only time I gained weight with insulin was at first DX but it was much needed. Then when I chased hypos with food. Also if I eat foods that make me insulin resistant. I stick very closely with low carb, moderate protein and higher healthy fats.
I gain tons if weight on carbs. Under 20 a day for me.

As far as protein, diabetics are susceptible to kidney disease so I keep mine at .8-1 g per kg LEAN body mass in order to try to prevent it. However I did have kidney stones after DX.

Simple meals with protein veggies and some fats. Done. I wouldn't want all those preservatives and I like to know what's in my food
 

Resurgam

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Insulin is labelled the fat producing hormone - most type twos have too much insulin either naturally or to try to bring blood glucose down with insulin resistance fighting it, so it makes weightloss very difficult.
 

Kristin251

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Insulin is labelled the fat producing hormone - most type twos have too much insulin either naturally or to try to bring blood glucose down with insulin resistance fighting it, so it makes weightloss very difficult.
Exactly. Well put.
Eating vlc, moderate protein and healthy fats allows me to keep my insulin doses very low and my weight perfectly steady.
And correct, many type 2 have too much circulating insulin and whenever they spike insulin either with carbs or protein they will most likely be stored as fat. Lowering insulin levels with low carb, moderate protein and higher fat is the only way I see being able to lose weight. At least for me.
 

kokhongw

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I am considering going back on Gliclazide. what do you think? I am not a happy bunny, also I am considering surgery!

gr2.jpg

This graph helps to give some perspective.
Chart from (http://www.ejinme.com/article/S0953-6205(09)00098-3/fulltext)

Most of us T2D have much higher levels of circulating insulin levels. Even for a number of years after diagnosis. Yet the high levels of insulin is unable to normalize our glucose level...if we continue with daily high carbs intake. Significantly reducing carbs intake will reduce the amount of insulin required to maintain a stable glucose level and allow more fats utilization. Then it generally becomes easier to achieve waist loss...not necessarily weight loss.

Focusing on normalizing glucose/insulin back to the earlier years in the chart eg -5 or -10. when postmeal and fasting glucose levels are below 125mg/dl ~ 7 mmol, approacing 100mg/dl~ 5 mmol...is the goal of T2D reversal. Then we would possibly give our overworked pancreas a few good years of rest and recovery.

Temporary insulin use would also help to provide short term relieve for the pancreas. But would not be as helpful as a combination of carbs/calorie reduction.

Dr Jason Fung's journey is a good starting read for his success in treating obesity related T2D
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/my-journey/
Instead, we were prescribing insulin to patients. Instinctively, most patients knew what we were doing was wrong. They would say to me “Doctor, you have always told me that weight loss was critical in the treatment of T2D, yet you have prescribed me insulin which has made me gain weight. How is that good?” I never had a good answer for this. Now I knew why. It was not good.

Plus his view on surgery
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/bariatrics-surgically-enforced-fasting-t2d-6/
So here’s the bottom line. Bariatric surgery has many proven benefits. Multiple studies show a short term benefit, although long term, it is more questionable. Weight loss and T2D are successfully reversed in the short term. But it’s not necessary. Imagine this. Bariatrics without surgical post operative complications. Without cost. Without the need for expensive hospitals or surgical equipment. Without the need for specially trained surgeons. You can simply do ‘medical’ bariatrics – or bariatrics without the surgery – fasting.

Note however that any significant carbs reduction may require adjustments in your insulin/medication dosage adjustments and would be best done with the agreement/guidance of your healthcare provider.
 
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ickihun

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Hi Gang

I am horrified to discover through reading these threads on Diabetes UK that using insulin can make me gain weight.. I am horrified I am already obese and have been cutting down and exercising and have been gaining weight I mentioned this to my 'Health care professional' who said it must be my portion size, nothing about using insulin will do this, I am considering going back on Gliclazide. what do you think? I am not a happy bunny, also I am considering surgery!
I'm on TIER3 for bariatric surgery but for me I've agreed due to immobility not so much for insulin injections to be reduced or eliminated.
How long have you been diabetic?
If you can get off insulin and be controlled by tablets only, go for it!
Only do bariatric surgery for the right reason.

It is common knowledge that too many carbs plus insulin to cater for those excessive carbs adds weight!
Low carbing and insulin doesn't have to mean adding weight. I'm losing on insulin and low carb, low fat.

I've hiccuped this past week due to kids been off school but normally steaming along, losing weight.

Do you low carb?
 

TorqPenderloin

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Insulin is labelled the fat producing hormone - most type twos have too much insulin either naturally or to try to bring blood glucose down with insulin resistance fighting it, so it makes weightloss very difficult.
Says who? Go tell that to someone with Type 1, someone with above average muscle mass, or most scientists/doctors. They'll laugh at you. Many of us with T1D almost died prior to our diagnosis due to a lack of the "Fat producing hormone."

That's the equivalent of saying "Food is a fat producing substance." Without it you will die, but no one is arguing that too much can be a bad thing. With that said, some need more than others. Insulin absolutely promotes fat storage when glucose is not immediately used for energy or stored as glycogen, but it also promotes muscle growth.

Insulin is a hormone that allows your body to use the energy from the glucose in your blood. When that energy isn't effectively used by your cells, it can lead to hyperglycemia (high blood sugar). Without insulin, the next way for your body to regulate your blood sugar is through your kidneys. Over time that can cause your kidneys to lose their filtering ability which in severe cases can lead to chronic kidney disease.

In type 2 diabetes, the body is unable to efficiently use insulin to pull energy from the blood. This inefficiency leads to hyperglycemia and can also lead to excess fat storage but certainly NOT ALWAYS.

I'm writing this because we know almost nothing about the OP and we also don't know who else is reading this. My advice is to go read up on stories of diabulimia and how people have literally died as a result of misunderstanding how insulin works inside of our bodies. Diabulimia DOES NOT just affect people with type 1. It can absolutely affect people with other types of diabetes as well.

Perhaps the better discussion is around finding ways to regulate, limit, or reduce your total daily insulin needs without negatively impacting your blood sugar levels? That's something I believe all of us could support.
 
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Resurgam

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They can laugh all they want - the description of the many functions of insulin are simple facts - but it seems that whenever the facts are presented there is a whole slew of people more than willing to poo-poo them - Banting and Atkins have helped many thousands control their weight, publishing their advice in the face of ridicule and total opposition and my health care professionals continue to trot out the same old mantra about carbs being essential for life.
I am perfectly aware that insulin really is essential for life, as too little is far worse than too much, and without insulin people die - looking at something like Wikipedia will provide a lot of information about phosphorylation and neutral triglyceride formation from fatty acids if you want to get the full facts as now known.
Food is not a fat producing substance - in the absence of insulin glucose is not converted to fat, nor glycogen, therefor it is not equivalent to my statement on the nature of insulin.
 

TorqPenderloin

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Food is not a fat producing substance - in the absence of insulin glucose is not converted to fat, nor glycogen, therefor it is not equivalent to my statement on the nature of insulin.

Thank you. What you just wrote only furthers my point.

Literally replace the words "food" and "glucose" with "insulin" in what you wrote above and the exact same conclusion still applies.
 

lindisfel

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They can laugh all they want - the description of the many functions of insulin are simple facts - but it seems that whenever the facts are presented there is a whole slew of people more than willing to poo-poo them - Banting and Atkins have helped many thousands control their weight, publishing their advice in the face of ridicule and total opposition and my health care professionals continue to trot out the same old mantra about carbs being essential for life.
I am perfectly aware that insulin really is essential for life, as too little is far worse than too much, and without insulin people die - looking at something like Wikipedia will provide a lot of information about phosphorylation and neutral triglyceride formation from fatty acids if you want to get the full facts as now known.
Food is not a fat producing substance - in the absence of insulin glucose is not converted to fat, nor glycogen, therefor it is not equivalent to my statement on the nature of insulin.
Don't let it concern you Resurgam we have found a method of cutting insulin that causes us to lose weight. We have a very different illness to Torq and he cannot see our point of view because lack of insulin is a very serious illness for T1's. The context of this discussion is not T1 and most of here appreciate the difference. I produce plenty of insulin the only trouble is it arrives late and causes me to hypo after going hyper, the way to effectively stop it is to stop eating refined carbohydrates. D.
 
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Resurgam

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I'm not really concerned - I find the whole argument of how diabetes ought to be treated quite interesting as there are so many facets to the errors which have built up even as the metabolic pathways have been uncovered.

I did take a wicked satisfaction in seeing the looks of total bewilderment on the faces of the team at the third diabetes education session, when they saw the results of my second blood test. I felt vindicated in my resistance to their advice, as it confirmed my belief that I had understood the problem.

That I was going hypoglycaemic over 40 years ago and it was never picked up is a regret - but at least I was able to do low carb and stay well for many years, even through pregnancy, and the future seems bright.
 

TorqPenderloin

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Don't let it concern you Resurgam we have found a method of cutting insulin that causes us to lose weight. We have a very different illness to Torq and he cannot see our point of view because lack of insulin is a very serious illness for T1's. The context of this discussion is not T1 and most of here appreciate the difference. I produce plenty of insulin the only trouble is it arrives late and causes me to hypo after going hyper, the way to effectively stop it is to stop eating refined carbohydrates. D.
See that's the mistake you are making: this is not an issue of point of view or opinion. This is a discussion about the basic science of how insulin works inside our bodies.

If we're going to have a conversation about perspective then see what I wrote previously:

"Perhaps the better discussion is around finding ways to regulate, limit, or reduce your total daily insulin needs without negatively impacting your blood sugar levels?"

I'm not really concerned - I find the whole argument of how diabetes ought to be treated quite interesting as there are so many facets to the errors which have built up even as the metabolic pathways have been uncovered.

I did take a wicked satisfaction in seeing the looks of total bewilderment on the faces of the team at the third diabetes education session, when they saw the results of my second blood test. I felt vindicated in my resistance to their advice, as it confirmed my belief that I had understood the problem.

That I was going hypoglycaemic over 40 years ago and it was never picked up is a regret - but at least I was able to do low carb and stay well for many years, even through pregnancy, and the future seems bright.
Once again, you're making the mistake of assuming this is about treatment options. This is a basic discussion about insulin.

The OP seems scared about artificial insulin and even mentioned going back on gliclazide. That suggests they have obvious confusion about what artificial insulin and sulfonylureas are. It's irrelevant whether your insulin deficiency is addressed with artificial insulin, or by taking a sulfonylurea that simply causes your pancreas to work harder. Either treatment is increasing the amount of insulin in your body.

For the record, I absolutely agree with your strategy to reduce carbohydrate intake and I'm a huge promoter of that way of eating. However, that's never what this discussion was about.
 

ickihun

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I think most type2s see their own producing insulin as the reason for excess fat on their body.
Myself I've always been mostly heavily muscular. Pushing weights heavier that most the men in our local gym (until recently).
I have to agree insulin affects your body make-up. I'm more fat than muscular now due to only been able to walk in pain but no other exercise.
Whenever I was on insulin for pregnancy I never added weight. Only once I stopped insulin did I add weight and get higher bgs.
I miss my stronger years. I could carry very heavy weights and sustain 12-14hr work shifts. I was one strong mama.
Not so strong physically I do worry about carrying this heavy fat body around. Neither wonder my back is in agony with bulging disc/s and scatica. Spasms don't help either.
Yes I've lost a lot of muscle mass to fat.
If I could tone up and gym it, I'd be laughing again.
Insulin is currently helping me lose weight on my current low carb, low fat diet.
I wonder what insulin will do for me when I'm forced into malnutrition mode? Far less than 600cals, I believe!