Intermittent fasting alongside LCHF. Mutual support, anyone?
- Thread starter BarbaraG
- Start Date
jpscloud
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 997
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Tablets (oral)
Fantastic results! I think a lot of us are kind of all or nothing when it comes to blood sugar control - it's vital for most of us to improve insulin sensitivity and the only way to do that is to keep BG under control almost all the time, at least until insulin sensitivity has improved.@BarbaraG, I just wanted to check in and see how your LCHF / IF journey is progressing? Are there any updates on Trulicity front?
For me, the last week has been full of positives, to the extent that most of it still doesn't feel real, and I'm scared that any moment I'll wake up from my pleasant dream.
Had an appointment with my GP last Thu to review my progress. In addition to stopping gliclazide, I'm now also completely off dapagliflozon (diabetes) and ramipril (hypertension). He is already plotting the next steps pending my blood test results. What?!
Had my blood test done on Fri with results on Monday. HbA1c down from 95mmol/mol to 56mmol/mol after just six and a bit weeks of LCHF. Cholesterol and liver function also improving. My best result in years. And with the least medication in years. I just keep kicking myself that I didn't do all this sooner, but I guess for me, it has been a journey rather than something you do or don't do.
While I haven't been following any formal LCHF diet, I have reduced my carbs quite drastically and now average under 25-30g a day. Weight has been trending in the right direction, but as I have come off my diabetes medicine, I noticed my BG starting to slowly creep up and that longer periods without food are helping to regulate. Feels like I'm naturally at a point where I want to explore fasting as a more formal tool. Now reading Dr Jason Fung's Complete Guide to Fasting.
I've been reflecting on some of the other threads in this forum and discussion around how well controlled your BG levels need to be versus effort and mental toll of being too strict with yourself. I had a chance to compare my CGM reading with a non-diabetic relative who decided to monitor themselves out of curiosity, and I'm now generally trending below them. I started to question if I'm pushing myself a bit too much. But then again, I'm a control freak and wouldn't know the difference - I need to be all in and in green, otherwise what's the point. Yeah, I need to relax and get a life...
Sadly, insulin testing isn't offered (unless I'm mistaken, please tell me if I am!) on the NHS so for someone like me with a lifetime of overeating carbs I only have BG levels and food testing to indicate insulin sensitivity. I hope one day my insulin sensitivy will be good enough to let me eat carbs in my usual diet but for now, they're as reduced as I can get them.
I have "meal holidays" now and again, and the resultant spikes tell me I'm very much still in the woods with insulin sensitivity, so I may be joining you in some more extended fasting.
Don't think you need to "get a life"! I think you are getting a much healthier one by doing what you're doing.
@TheSecretCarbAddict thanks for asking - apologies for delay in responding - I will explain!
Firstly - fantastic news on your results! Well done, long may it continue.
Secondly - Trulicity is definitely a no-show now, and I’m more than 3 weeks since I should have had a dose. My 7-day average glucose went up from 6.7 to 7.5, but has now shown signs of starting to turn the corner. You can make an estimate of A1C from average BG and vice versa, and if my current average BG was maintained consistently for 3 month, we’d be looking at an A1C towards the top of the pre-diabetic range. So that’s it, I’m staying off Trulicity.
I upped my fasting regime last week, as a way of keeping the lid on BG without Trulicity. My regime is 1x42 hours each week (no meals on Monday, break the fast with lunch on Tuesday) plus 2x24 (eat evening meal only on Wednesdays and Fridays), and 18:6 the other days. Doing the full day of fasting was psychologically challenging, but in practical terms not difficult at all. In the sense that I didn’t struggle with hunger, or headaches, or feeling weak, or any of the other things that people sometimes get.
I also bit the bullet earlier this week and signed up for an IF masterclass with The Fasting Method, which starts on Tuesday. As part of that package, I get a month’s membership of their community, with all its resources, live meetings and specialised bulletin boards.
I had in mind that I might subscribe once I was further along. Either when things stopped going well, or when I approached a stable weight, to help me transition into maintenance. But having seen what they offer, I think it quite likely that I will subscribe at the end of the included month. There is so much detailed information, with psychological aspects and habit change as well as the practicalities of fasting, plus the support. I really feel it could make the difference for me. So I have been consuming a lot of their material and spending time on their bulletin boards, hence not been here as much.
At the moment we are away for a few days staying with friends. Food options are less than ideal, but I am negotiating it the best I can.
My mantras are:
- lower carb real food, as much as possible
- full meals, no snacks - and no calorific liquids between meals either.
- time restricted eating as my basic pattern - my new normal
- add fasting as needed to reach metabolic and weight goals.
Once I am in maintenance mode, or for holidays, or times when I just want a break - then the first three lines above will be my new normal way of eating, with perhaps a 24-hour fast once a week, maybe a longer fast now and again, for autophagy and disease prevention.
I am feeling very positive!
Firstly - fantastic news on your results! Well done, long may it continue.
Secondly - Trulicity is definitely a no-show now, and I’m more than 3 weeks since I should have had a dose. My 7-day average glucose went up from 6.7 to 7.5, but has now shown signs of starting to turn the corner. You can make an estimate of A1C from average BG and vice versa, and if my current average BG was maintained consistently for 3 month, we’d be looking at an A1C towards the top of the pre-diabetic range. So that’s it, I’m staying off Trulicity.
I upped my fasting regime last week, as a way of keeping the lid on BG without Trulicity. My regime is 1x42 hours each week (no meals on Monday, break the fast with lunch on Tuesday) plus 2x24 (eat evening meal only on Wednesdays and Fridays), and 18:6 the other days. Doing the full day of fasting was psychologically challenging, but in practical terms not difficult at all. In the sense that I didn’t struggle with hunger, or headaches, or feeling weak, or any of the other things that people sometimes get.
I also bit the bullet earlier this week and signed up for an IF masterclass with The Fasting Method, which starts on Tuesday. As part of that package, I get a month’s membership of their community, with all its resources, live meetings and specialised bulletin boards.
I had in mind that I might subscribe once I was further along. Either when things stopped going well, or when I approached a stable weight, to help me transition into maintenance. But having seen what they offer, I think it quite likely that I will subscribe at the end of the included month. There is so much detailed information, with psychological aspects and habit change as well as the practicalities of fasting, plus the support. I really feel it could make the difference for me. So I have been consuming a lot of their material and spending time on their bulletin boards, hence not been here as much.
At the moment we are away for a few days staying with friends. Food options are less than ideal, but I am negotiating it the best I can.
My mantras are:
- lower carb real food, as much as possible
- full meals, no snacks - and no calorific liquids between meals either.
- time restricted eating as my basic pattern - my new normal
- add fasting as needed to reach metabolic and weight goals.
Once I am in maintenance mode, or for holidays, or times when I just want a break - then the first three lines above will be my new normal way of eating, with perhaps a 24-hour fast once a week, maybe a longer fast now and again, for autophagy and disease prevention.
I am feeling very positive!
I’m in my 3rd week of fasting 3 time a week, and the impact on my BG has been nothing short of stunning.
It’s now 5 weeks since I last had a shot of Trulicity. A week after that, i.e. when I should have had the next shot, my 7-day average BG was 6.7. Naturally it rose over the next few weeks, although only up to 7.5. But now it’s coming down, and this morning it’s back to 6.7!
Back in January it was high 9’s while on Trulicity. Now it’s 6.7 without. That predicts an HbA1C just at the top of the normal range.
So, great progress. Now to tackle the metformin!
PS I am down over 2 stone and have gone from Class III TO class II obesity. Another 10lb and I’ll be into Class I.
It’s now 5 weeks since I last had a shot of Trulicity. A week after that, i.e. when I should have had the next shot, my 7-day average BG was 6.7. Naturally it rose over the next few weeks, although only up to 7.5. But now it’s coming down, and this morning it’s back to 6.7!
Back in January it was high 9’s while on Trulicity. Now it’s 6.7 without. That predicts an HbA1C just at the top of the normal range.
So, great progress. Now to tackle the metformin!
PS I am down over 2 stone and have gone from Class III TO class II obesity. Another 10lb and I’ll be into Class I.
TheSecretCarbAddict
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 298
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Tablets (oral)
@BarbaraG - that's really fantastic progress and well done for staying the course! Sounds like The Fasting Method have a lot of really useful content to support your journey. I find that it is often not necessarily knowing what to do, but having tools to apply it and then stick with it. And a supportive community is a must (I keep a couple, each helps in its own way). And to get off one of your meds (even if it was a forced on you) is a fantastic result!
I got inspired by another thread on this forum tracking a four day fast and started fasting along. Broke through my psychological barrier of 24 hours and got to 44. Could carry on for longer, but lost my nerve as my Libre 2 was screaming at me and saying I've been having a day long hypo (confirmed by a finger-prick test, but didn't feel any other symptoms). I think the whole new world of fasting awaits.
I really like your mantras, I saw something similar on X a couple of weeks ago and decided I need one of these list of guidelines. Have been making a mental list, but haven't gotten to writing it down yet.
Today marks exactly 8 weeks since the start of my LCHF and dabbling with IF journey. It feels like it was only yesterday that I decided I needed to do something about my T2 after 15 years of not doing much and I can't believe that I can now seriously start to consider a possibility of a remission. Had my check in with GP today and got more medication either reduced or taken away and next blood tests booked in for the end of the month. From all the cocktail of medication you can still see in my profile only Metformin 850mg*1 daily (down from 3*daily) and Atorvastatin 10mg*1 daily (down from 40mg) remain. While the BG levels remained stable after removal of the first lot of medication, it will be interesting to see what happens with removal of Trulicity and reducing Metformin quite considerably, hopefully reduction in statins will offset some increases, but like yourself I might need to put more focus on IF.
I got inspired by another thread on this forum tracking a four day fast and started fasting along. Broke through my psychological barrier of 24 hours and got to 44. Could carry on for longer, but lost my nerve as my Libre 2 was screaming at me and saying I've been having a day long hypo (confirmed by a finger-prick test, but didn't feel any other symptoms). I think the whole new world of fasting awaits.
I really like your mantras, I saw something similar on X a couple of weeks ago and decided I need one of these list of guidelines. Have been making a mental list, but haven't gotten to writing it down yet.
Today marks exactly 8 weeks since the start of my LCHF and dabbling with IF journey. It feels like it was only yesterday that I decided I needed to do something about my T2 after 15 years of not doing much and I can't believe that I can now seriously start to consider a possibility of a remission. Had my check in with GP today and got more medication either reduced or taken away and next blood tests booked in for the end of the month. From all the cocktail of medication you can still see in my profile only Metformin 850mg*1 daily (down from 3*daily) and Atorvastatin 10mg*1 daily (down from 40mg) remain. While the BG levels remained stable after removal of the first lot of medication, it will be interesting to see what happens with removal of Trulicity and reducing Metformin quite considerably, hopefully reduction in statins will offset some increases, but like yourself I might need to put more focus on IF.
- Messages
- 723
- Type of diabetes
- I reversed my Type 2
- Treatment type
- Diet only
Hi @BarbaraG and @TheSecretCarbAddict - just read through this thread for the first time. I can't really explain why, but I never ventured into the fasting section, despite fasting being the core of my own Damascene journey.
I would have definitely have joined up in Jan/ Feb though, that was quite the time for me - I was looking also at dropping my meds, with no real approval from GP, and essentially had a period of time in which to prove that forgiveness was justified, even having not asked permission, so I read all the posts about your meds not being available, and getting to the point of not needing them with a real sense of appreciation - bravo !! - Clearly it's not a thing for everyone, and we need to keep our GPs on board, not all of them are supportive, but I'm hugely impressed with the bravery and determination.
I particularly like your asides about MrBarbaraG - there was one day fairly recently when I was on a fasting day, and my wife and daughter were having a roast chicken, and (because I tend to do most of the cooking in our house) - I was asked if I could take the chicken out of the oven and carve it up after it was rested...
"you know I haven't had a thing in 24 hours, and you want me to take a roast chicken out of the oven and stand over it for ten minutes?" - I didn't ask... but you know, say I was a recovering alcoholic - nobody would say, "pour me that Whisky and just warm it up in your hand for a bit.. swirl it around and give it a good sniff..."
But we have to do what we can - I needed to build up a sense of "me versus the world" - I was full of righteous indignation and that fuelled me to go headlong into alternating daily fasting - so 36 hours (being the sweet spot as far as I could tell from all the info from mainly Dr Fung) on a rolling basis.
Years ago, I gave up smoking overnight, when we were starting trying for a baby, so that all-or-nothing kind of plan works for me. I do believe that different plans work for different people - there is no right way. Only what you can do.
I definitely find that looking back seven months or so, I know so much more than I did back then, but at the same time, the more l learn, the more I'm aware of how much there is... so the harder I go at it, the bigger the topic gets, and to some extent I feel that I'm relaxing into the longer term with less stress on a day-to-day basis.
As for the fasting schedule.. I was surely planning on a "correctional" phase, leading into a "sustainable" phase, but now I think more in terms of it all being an experiment, so long as the big numbers are going in the right direction, great, and the rest is about trying to find a greater sense of humility ... the human body is just such an amazingly complex system; I feel both lucky to have been forced into discovering some of it, and blessed that .. knowing some of that, I can do something for myself that plenty of people can go through their lives never even being aware is possible.
Tomorrow looks like a fasting day, and while I can't do them too often (I have to hold my weight up rather than down) I find that I feel so good for that magical period beyond 24 hours (autophagy is such a big topic by itself, but I think it's a worthwhile thing to aim for even on it's own merits, putting diabetes aside altogether) and the feeling of enjoyment of breaking that fast ... it's become something that I just want to do every now and again for it's own sake.
Anyway - I really wanted to say thanks for this thread - it's amazingly motivational, and the best of luck to you both..
I would have definitely have joined up in Jan/ Feb though, that was quite the time for me - I was looking also at dropping my meds, with no real approval from GP, and essentially had a period of time in which to prove that forgiveness was justified, even having not asked permission, so I read all the posts about your meds not being available, and getting to the point of not needing them with a real sense of appreciation - bravo !! - Clearly it's not a thing for everyone, and we need to keep our GPs on board, not all of them are supportive, but I'm hugely impressed with the bravery and determination.
I particularly like your asides about MrBarbaraG - there was one day fairly recently when I was on a fasting day, and my wife and daughter were having a roast chicken, and (because I tend to do most of the cooking in our house) - I was asked if I could take the chicken out of the oven and carve it up after it was rested...
"you know I haven't had a thing in 24 hours, and you want me to take a roast chicken out of the oven and stand over it for ten minutes?" - I didn't ask... but you know, say I was a recovering alcoholic - nobody would say, "pour me that Whisky and just warm it up in your hand for a bit.. swirl it around and give it a good sniff..."
But we have to do what we can - I needed to build up a sense of "me versus the world" - I was full of righteous indignation and that fuelled me to go headlong into alternating daily fasting - so 36 hours (being the sweet spot as far as I could tell from all the info from mainly Dr Fung) on a rolling basis.
Years ago, I gave up smoking overnight, when we were starting trying for a baby, so that all-or-nothing kind of plan works for me. I do believe that different plans work for different people - there is no right way. Only what you can do.
I definitely find that looking back seven months or so, I know so much more than I did back then, but at the same time, the more l learn, the more I'm aware of how much there is... so the harder I go at it, the bigger the topic gets, and to some extent I feel that I'm relaxing into the longer term with less stress on a day-to-day basis.
As for the fasting schedule.. I was surely planning on a "correctional" phase, leading into a "sustainable" phase, but now I think more in terms of it all being an experiment, so long as the big numbers are going in the right direction, great, and the rest is about trying to find a greater sense of humility ... the human body is just such an amazingly complex system; I feel both lucky to have been forced into discovering some of it, and blessed that .. knowing some of that, I can do something for myself that plenty of people can go through their lives never even being aware is possible.
Tomorrow looks like a fasting day, and while I can't do them too often (I have to hold my weight up rather than down) I find that I feel so good for that magical period beyond 24 hours (autophagy is such a big topic by itself, but I think it's a worthwhile thing to aim for even on it's own merits, putting diabetes aside altogether) and the feeling of enjoyment of breaking that fast ... it's become something that I just want to do every now and again for it's own sake.
Anyway - I really wanted to say thanks for this thread - it's amazingly motivational, and the best of luck to you both..
Hi @BarbaraG and @TheSecretCarbAddict
Just to add that I too had some success with IF and 24 hour fast became a way of life with mostly OMAD. Occasionally I found the smell of hubby cooking bacon irresistible in the morning so would have the occasional breakfast and also an occasional 36 hr fast. Usually all the above was following Low Carb High Fat. Things started to slide a bit during lockdown as my son came to live with us and as I am an interested cook so the whole day revolved around mealtimes (for me evening meal) - with wine as an accompaniment. Cooking potatoes meant I would just have one - etc. I would bake a loaf of bread - I'll just have a bit with cheese. I had already ceased using meds and had no testing strips but my last few Hb1Ac were in the prediabetic range but creeping up as was my weight. As a 4 foot 11.5 inch elderly woman with limited exercise I have to be particularly careful with the amount of food I eat as my BMR is only 1350 so yes it is hard and the only way I have found to keep me on track is to be a spreadsheet and weighing scale addict. I took myself in hand 8 weeks ago and have now managed to lose 5.2 lb which has brought my BMI down to top end of normal. I am still overweight though and determined to get rid of some more belly fat. So I commend you on your efforts to date and I will be continuing my journey with you. I have made a slight change to my method recently as I developed IBS so I have starting having 2 meals a day instead of just 1. That extra meal is 20g milled flax seed soaked in almond milk overnight or at least a couple of hours with a dollop of full fat Greek yoghurt. This enables me to take medication beforehand and doesn't mess up my macros. I have no doubt I will be able to do some more fasting at some point and one of the things that previously helped me during a 36 hour fast was a drink made with 1 beef oxo cube in water - helps with the salt intake and strangely kids you into thinking you have had something more substantial. Good Luck and keep at it.
Just to add that I too had some success with IF and 24 hour fast became a way of life with mostly OMAD. Occasionally I found the smell of hubby cooking bacon irresistible in the morning so would have the occasional breakfast and also an occasional 36 hr fast. Usually all the above was following Low Carb High Fat. Things started to slide a bit during lockdown as my son came to live with us and as I am an interested cook so the whole day revolved around mealtimes (for me evening meal) - with wine as an accompaniment. Cooking potatoes meant I would just have one - etc. I would bake a loaf of bread - I'll just have a bit with cheese. I had already ceased using meds and had no testing strips but my last few Hb1Ac were in the prediabetic range but creeping up as was my weight. As a 4 foot 11.5 inch elderly woman with limited exercise I have to be particularly careful with the amount of food I eat as my BMR is only 1350 so yes it is hard and the only way I have found to keep me on track is to be a spreadsheet and weighing scale addict. I took myself in hand 8 weeks ago and have now managed to lose 5.2 lb which has brought my BMI down to top end of normal. I am still overweight though and determined to get rid of some more belly fat. So I commend you on your efforts to date and I will be continuing my journey with you. I have made a slight change to my method recently as I developed IBS so I have starting having 2 meals a day instead of just 1. That extra meal is 20g milled flax seed soaked in almond milk overnight or at least a couple of hours with a dollop of full fat Greek yoghurt. This enables me to take medication beforehand and doesn't mess up my macros. I have no doubt I will be able to do some more fasting at some point and one of the things that previously helped me during a 36 hour fast was a drink made with 1 beef oxo cube in water - helps with the salt intake and strangely kids you into thinking you have had something more substantial. Good Luck and keep at it.
Just completed my first extended fast (92 hours). Used home made bone broth once a day instead of my usual meal. Was easier than expected. Lost over 3lbs and half an inch off my waist as well as great bs levels. Even got down to 3.2 but did not feel at all affected - full of beans and very sharp. The fact that I could do this without meds has given me hope. Will definitely do again but in the meantime back to Lchf and OMAD most days.
