Intermittent fasting alongside LCHF. Mutual support, anyone?

[BarbaraG]

So I switched to LCHF over the course of January, and the past couple of weeks have added some fasting as well. I am determined now to maintain my weight at a much lower level, and if it is humanly possible, to put my type 2 diabetes into remission and keep it there.

Neither of these will be easy.

Anyone willing to be a cheerleader, and/or share my journey?

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

Where do I sign up? It is still early days for me - I've been on an informal version of LCHF for just over three weeks while also doing intermittent fasting at the same time (8/16 to 6/18). I think one element that's been missing is a bit of community support, especially when the going gets tough.

 

[Outlier]

It shouldn't be half as difficult as you anticipate. Honestly. Lots of lovely food, lots of variety on LCHF, never be bored, never be hungry. As for the fasting - just let it happen, as by degrees you will feel not-hungry for longer and longer. I never set out to IF - it just happened. Lots of support here too. Just ask whatever you need to know about and if we know we'll say, if we don't know we'll say that too. Most important is to realise that we are all different, so we share our individual experiences to give a wide perspective.

 

[ianf0ster]

If I may, I will mention a few things that helped me.
I'm not good at all the emotional support stuff. So it may not be what you are looking for.

At first, I thought it was going to be easy because my HbA1C was in the low 50s at diagnosis and I was only about 2 lbs overweight - a TOFI. I realised my mistake as soon as I started trying to 'eat to my BG meter'. I had to go a lot lower carb than I had been led to believe by those with more weight (and subcutaneous fat) to shift. But the NG meter was my own personal diabetes expert and kept me on the right path, just that I needed to get down into the 20gms to 40gms of carbs per day (mainly 20gms) instead of the sub 120gms I had anticipated.

Where I needed some information and encouragement was with calories, I didn't initially want to lose more than 1/10th of my body weight, but at the lowest weight I ended up losing much closer to 1/5th of it.

Fortunately many members told me not to fear fat - even saturated fat. I had been eating low fat with predictably high 'so called healthy carbs' for over 10yrs before diagnosis but that had not prevented requiring a triple bypass, not T2 Diabates. So this required some faith on my part, but I discovered the Cholesterol thread by @bulkbiker and from that @LowcarbGP and on what used to be called Twitter, then from those many other doctors (especially Cardiologists in the Low Carb community). So I ate as much fat as I needed to feel more than satiated - yet I still lost weight at a rate of 1 to 2 lbs per week - which I discovered is about the pace that most Health Systems advise for those needing to lose weight. The easiest way for me to eat fats was in the form of hard cheeses. eggs (low carb) nuts, olives, olive oil and avocado.

I paid no attention to calories except to try and keep my weight from dropping too fast.

I didn't try to introduce 'Intermittent Fasting' until the sudden realisation (after 4 months of LCHF) that I was no longer hungry at breakfast time and was merely eating my boiled eggs then out of habit. - I was thus, 'Fat Adapted' and once I started IF, I was easily able to progress from 2 meals a day to 1 meal (OMAD) when that was convenient.

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

I really suscribe to the idea of each individual needing their own individual approach, taking into account their individual circumstances. That is not to say that your approach can't be grounded in experience of those who have gone before you. I've tried LCHF before with varying degrees of success, but recently worked out that one of my fundamental challenges is that I'm a proper carb junkie and while I often know what to do I sometimes can feel utterly powerless when faced with my trigger foods. When it comes to carbs, I just need to abstain. There is no moderation. It's been three weeks and counting. For me, this is where community support becomes important.

 

[BarbaraG]

Thank you all for responding.

Perhaps I should have shared more context. I’ve been diagnosed with T2D for 26 years. I’ve been obese virtually all my adult life (was an overweight 8-year-old), at my biggest my BMI was 48.5. I have lost weight many, many times. Sometimes a lot of it. I just about got my diabetes into remission 11 years ago, but (surprise, surprise) couldn’t maintain the weight loss. So that’s why I say it won’t be easy, because of my long history.

I first discovered LCHF and IF 8 years ago and did very well with it. I made the mistake of giving in to the carbs when on holiday after about a year. And somehow never managed to get back onto it. So, yes to delicious food.

My history includes rampant binge eating and a very addictive/compulsive relationship with food - especially sweets, cakes, puddings, crisps etc. Having gone sort of cold turkey on all that kind of stuff, I’m now finding I can tolerate small amounts of sweet stuff occasionally without getting hooked again. But I really do need to keep a close eye on it, as I know I’m very susceptible to letting it sneak back in.

I’m trying to keep my focus on having a healthy eating style - mainly whole foods not processed, lowish carb, not eating between meals. But without being obsessive over every detail - so I don’t count calories or macros, though I have a general awareness of where the carbs are.

I’m doing 18/6 most days. I did a 21-hour fast last week, and intend to do 2 24-hour fasts in the coming week. Today, however, is Easter. There will be chocolate!

Oh - and introducing the IF has pushed my BG down another notch. Average for the last 7 days is 7.1, and overnight I’m seeing numbers between 4 and low 6’s. Almost normal! But of course - dawn phenomenon, highs from exercise, stress and eating etc. But all of those becoming lower than they were.

I’m on metformin and Trulicity. I have a tortured history with weight…. whatever I lose this time, I want to keep off. Even if that means I’m still technically obese.

First step is to get to a normal HbA1C on current meds. Then we can think about reducing them.

 

[AloeSvea]

This sounds like a very reasonable T2D treatment plan, @BarbaraG. As a long-term LCHFer and IFer, I'm very happy to come on in here and give you a cheer for the team!

I'm still trying out meds, and will continue to do so, but realise I need to do some more serious fasting to get my glucose levels back to a healthier level. After a couple of chocolate easter egg days myself - post-Easter is a good time to do so! For sure.

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

I'm continuing on my LCHF diet this week, still quite informally, but started tracking what goes into my mouth and when (food & meds)... hoping to review after a week or so and start optimising... Have mostly managed to keep to 14-16 hour fasts. Weight is continuing to slowly go down, but the biggest excitement this week was my Libre registering a couple of low glucose events. After speaking to my GP, I'm reducing one of the meds to half the dosage. After a decade and a half of increasing doses and additional meds, this is feels... I don't even know how to describe it. Rad!?

 

[jjraak]

I’m trying to keep my focus on having a healthy eating style - mainly whole foods not processed, lowish carb, not eating between meals. But without being obsessive over every detail - so I don’t count calories or macros, though I have a general awareness of where the carbs are.

I’m doing 18/6 most days. I did a 21-hour fast last week, and intend to do 2 24-hour fasts in the coming week. Today, however, is Easter. There will be chocolate!

Oh - and introducing the IF has pushed my BG down another notch. Average for the last 7 days is 7.1, and overnight I’m seeing numbers between 4 and low 6’s. Almost normal! But of course - dawn phenomenon, highs from exercise, stress and eating etc. But all of those becoming lower than they were.

Well @BarbaraG

From one who doesn't know your past
And we all have history, right

I can only judge by that attitude you post right here.

Determined, focused & fully commited.

Why do you need cheerleaders, again ..mmhh ?

But happy to sign up as one.
Not the first time I've stood around doing nothing. .

You got this

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

@BarbaraG, how are you getting on?

 

[BarbaraG]

Thank you for asking….. today I completed a 23-hour fast (7pm yesterday to 6pm today). I was/am already in the habit of skipping breakfast, so all it meant was skipping lunch and taking all tea/coffee without milk. Guess what, I’ve found I enjoy it! I also had the sense, as I was getting ready to cook this evening, that I could comfortably have skipped that too and fasted until tomorrow. I didn’t because a certain Mr BarbaraG was waiting for his tea….

Planning another 24 hours on Saturday then next Wednesday. Then a conversation with Mr BarbaraG about getting his own tea on the odd occasion so I can do a 36-40 hour fast.

In other news - the pharmacy can’t currently get my Trulicity. I didn’t have it in February, and average BG climbed from 7.5 to 10.0, before starting to turn down again. This morning, my average was 6.8. I should have had the injection today, but couldn’t. So I expect it to start rising. Not as high as last time, hopefully. And I’m going to keep on at the pharmacy to see if they can get it.

But my plan is to get off of it. Maybe I’ll just have to fast harder to e ove the need for it sooner.

PS I am down a stone and a half since January.

 

[BarbaraG]

I'm continuing on my LCHF diet this week, still quite informally, but started tracking what goes into my mouth and when (food & meds)... hoping to review after a week or so and start optimising... Have mostly managed to keep to 14-16 hour fasts. Weight is continuing to slowly go down, but the biggest excitement this week was my Libre registering a couple of low glucose events. After speaking to my GP, I'm reducing one of the meds to half the dosage. After a decade and a half of increasing doses and additional meds, this is feels... I don't even know how to describe it. Rad!?

What a wonderful feeling! Neither of my meds can cause hypos, so my plan was to wait until my BG was firmly in the normal range before discussing removing meds. But I can’t get one of mine now, so it may happen sooner than intended.

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

@BarbaraG - well done! Sounds like you are really going for it! I haven't been brave enough to fast longer than 18h - I get irritable if I don't get some food and might be thrown out of the house. I have to say, however, that over the last couple of weeks, I have had a few occasions where I'm preparing my lunch or dinner and am thinking to myself that I'm not really that hungry. Maybe I need to try and go from two to one meal a day and then see what happens.

I get your struggles around sourcing Trulicity and am sorry to hear that this is having an impact on your BG control. I'm also on it among other meds and have been struggling with access to it. Didn't have it Jan/Feb, then it turned up in March, but I just heard from my pharmacy that they can no longer get it for my next refill.

Your weight loss is fantastic! My progress is a bit slower, but I can't say that I have focused on this. Just checked my progress since Jan, and it is about 4 pounds down, with most of it coming off in the last 4 weeks when I started LC. It's about a stone to go to where I want to be.

How are you measuring your BG? Do you have access to Libre?

Anyway, keep up your efforts!

 

[kathryn59]

Thank you all for responding.

Perhaps I should have shared more context. I’ve been diagnosed with T2D for 26 years. I’ve been obese virtually all my adult life (was an overweight 8-year-old), at my biggest my BMI was 48.5. I have lost weight many, many times. Sometimes a lot of it. I just about got my diabetes into remission 11 years ago, but (surprise, surprise) couldn’t maintain the weight loss. So that’s why I say it won’t be easy, because of my long history.

I first discovered LCHF and IF 8 years ago and did very well with it. I made the mistake of giving in to the carbs when on holiday after about a year. And somehow never managed to get back onto it. So, yes to delicious food.

My history includes rampant binge eating and a very addictive/compulsive relationship with food - especially sweets, cakes, puddings, crisps etc. Having gone sort of cold turkey on all that kind of stuff, I’m now finding I can tolerate small amounts of sweet stuff occasionally without getting hooked again. But I really do need to keep a close eye on it, as I know I’m very susceptible to letting it sneak back in.

I’m trying to keep my focus on having a healthy eating style - mainly whole foods not processed, lowish carb, not eating between meals. But without being obsessive over every detail - so I don’t count calories or macros, though I have a general awareness of where the carbs are.

I’m doing 18/6 most days. I did a 21-hour fast last week, and intend to do 2 24-hour fasts in the coming week. Today, however, is Easter. There will be chocolate!

Oh - and introducing the IF has pushed my BG down another notch. Average for the last 7 days is 7.1, and overnight I’m seeing numbers between 4 and low 6’s. Almost normal! But of course - dawn phenomenon, highs from exercise, stress and eating etc. But all of those becoming lower than they were.

I’m on metformin and Trulicity. I have a tortured history with weight…. whatever I lose this time, I want to keep off. Even if that means I’m still technically obese.

First step is to get to a normal HbA1C on current meds. Then we can think about reducing them.

Oh Barbara!! You’re singing my song. I once asked my husband (tall and thinall his life), if he was ever sad to see the last bite of food on his plate. He looked at me like I had three heads!! I realized my relationship with food was not normal. Not sweets for me (although SkinnyMe chocolates have helped) but pasta, bread, rice…you get the picture. I’m in the States so my readings are different. I too did great on keto for 2 years but also gave in. Weight not as high as it was but still creeped up. Just started IF. And LCHF. Weight isn’t dropping like it did on keto but it is going down and I feel better.
So nice to hear your story on here

 

[BarbaraG]

@BarbaraG - well done! Sounds like you are really going for it! I haven't been brave enough to fast longer than 18h - I get irritable if I don't get some food and might be thrown out of the house. I have to say, however, that over the last couple of weeks, I have had a few occasions where I'm preparing my lunch or dinner and am thinking to myself that I'm not really that hungry. Maybe I need to try and go from two to one meal a day and then see what happens.

I get your struggles around sourcing Trulicity and am sorry to hear that this is having an impact on your BG control. I'm also on it among other meds and have been struggling with access to it. Didn't have it Jan/Feb, then it turned up in March, but I just heard from my pharmacy that they can no longer get it for my next refill.

Your weight loss is fantastic! My progress is a bit slower, but I can't say that I have focused on this. Just checked my progress since Jan, and it is about 4 pounds down, with most of it coming off in the last 4 weeks when I started LC. It's about a stone to go to where I want to be.

How are you measuring your BG? Do you have access to Libre?

Anyway, keep up your efforts!

You have to set the speed of my weight loss in the context of where I started - with a BMI of 41.5. If Imlose a firther 6 stone, I will just creep in the top end of “healthy weight”. The heavier you are, the easier it is to lose. At least at the beginning.

Yes, I’m using Libre 2. I have access to it by dint of paying for myself - the NHS will no longer provide me anything for self-testing, never mind Libres. Obviously it’s expensive, but I am able to afford it and I find it highly motivating. I won’t use it for ever. Once my BG has been boringly normal for several weeks, I will stop using it as a regular thing.

Its thanks to the Libre that I know that between midnight and 6am today, my BG was within the normal fasting range virtually the whole time, and that my highest peak so far today has been 7.6. How good is that?? And my average over the last 7 days has been 6.7.

Fasting really is so good for BG. I haven’t heard anything back from the pharmacy about Trulicity - I think I’ll Bob down tomorrow and check in with them. And if they say they can’t get it, well, so be it. Fasting all the way.

@kathryn59 - I have the world’s sweetest tooth, and always have had. I can also eat unfeasible quantities of crisps, given half a chance. The thing is - when I’m eating that way, the thought of being without them is torture. But when I go cold turkey for a few weeks, it’s like it breaks their stranglehold. I’m now at the point where I can have a little of something, sometimes, and it’s OK. I won’t let it become every day, though, I think that would be dangerous to me.

 

[Outlier]

In case it helps anybody - I found my interest in crisps disappeared when I started adding more butter/olive oil and salt to my food. That must have been what my body was trying to tell me it needed.

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

Yes, I’m using Libre 2. I have access to it by dint of paying for myself - the NHS will no longer provide me anything for self-testing, never mind Libres. Obviously it’s expensive, but I am able to afford it and I find it highly motivating. I won’t use it for ever. Once my BG has been boringly normal for several weeks, I will stop using it as a regular thing.

The same as you I find Libre 2 not only educational but also highly motivational. A bit obsessed with keeping my steaks of being in green going. I'm bracing myself for self-funding when a couple of sensors I got via GP run out. Not a welcome expense, but a necessary one.

I wasn't very proud of my max reading today - close to 9 in middle of the night. I abused my low glucose event last night before bed and just reached for that piece of cake, and then another one. The cake was gone before my conscious mind even registered it. But back on plan this morning.

 

[BarbaraG]

I went for a curry this evening. We do it once a month, and I threw caution to the wind. Peaked at well over 13!!! Down to 6.5 now and I hope and trust will fall further overnight.

You know what they say - what you do every day matters more than what you do now and again. Tomorrow I will eat two low carb meals, and then fast for 24 hours.

 

[jpscloud]

Congratulations to you @BarbaraG and @TheSecretCarbAddict - have a lot in common with both of you I think. I do intermittent fasting all the time at the moment as I've gone full carnivore for a bit. When I allow any vegetables in I find they make me want to eat more and more, I kid you not, I start bingeing on cauliflower!

On carnivore I'm not anywhere near as interested in food but do really enjoy what I eat so that's working for me, for now.

All the best of luck to you both and please let us know how it goes!

 

[BarbaraG]

A quick check in from me. I fasted for 24 hours on Saturday as I drove to visit my mother for a few days. I’ve done my best with low carb here and breakfast-skipping….. but after deciding I could have a few chocolate mints after eating on Sunday night, I suddenly found myself scoffing a load more while my mother was out of the room, so obviously the chocolate monster in me is still there.

There is no point in beating myself up over that, but there IS a point in learning from the experience. So yesterday I bought some olives - then if the chocolate urge strikes me this evening, I will have those instead. I didn’t want any chocolate yesterday evening because the meal we had (curry) was so filling, I was stuffed. I had one popadom and one onion bhaji, declined any rice, but fried some green veg in curry spices. Today we are going out for lunch, so I had a look online at the menu for the pub we are going to. It’s all chips, pastry, pasta and burger buns! But they do a mixed grill - 4 different sorts of meat and a fried egg, so that’s what I’ll be having.

I head home tomorrow. So I’ll be fasting until the evening meal, that will be 22-24 hours depending exactly what time we eat tonight. Then I plan to talk to Mr BarbaraG about him sorting out his own meals a few times a week. I think I’d like to aim for 24 hour fasts (skip lunch) on Mondays and Fridays, 36-42 hour (a full day without food) on Wednesdays, and skip breakfast (16-18 hours) every other day.

I need to intensify my fasting a little if I’m not going to be able to get the Trulicity. I managed to forget to check with the pharmacy on Saturday before I left, but they haven’t texted me to say it’s in, so I’m guessing it’s not. The first few days after missing the dose it there didn’t seem to be much impact on my BG, but it is definitely starting to move up now. So hoping that more fasting will counteract that.