Is a Atkins Diet Dangerous?

[catherinecherub]

I call it low carb junk. Chemically enhanced nutrition bars, shakes and the like. So much for the wholesome foods that some people keep banging on about.

They have stopped eating junk food to replace it with something equally as bad under the guise of low carb.

It wasn't long ago that some low carbers were spouting that you shouldn't eat anything that your grandparents didn't. How times have changed.

Reminds me of the Pied Piper. A "leader" who entices people to follow, usually to their doom.

 

[squarebanana]

Hello All,
I am a newly diagnosed diabetic (type 2), and boy has this been a learning curve over the past month or 2, i found out in January this year.

Righto ive done the Atkins diet in the past and lost a lot of weight with it, and i fully weighed :? up the pro's and cons at that time (2003) and read everything i could about the diet before undertaking it. I personally at the time suffered a little with constipation, but went through losing the weight over 3 months (3.5 Stone) without any major problems.

Since finding out about my diabeties and after getting told by my doctor about sugars (carbs) and the fact that i told him, I DONT TAKE SUGAR (LOL!).

It all seemed to make sense that all the rubbish i had consumed over the past 7 years, working with my wife in her SANDWICH SHOP eating a bacon barm (or 2 ) for breakfast and maybe another (couple) of barms with something on for my dinner, and yet again maybe another meat and potato pie ( or 2 ) for tea, that normally would get thrown if it ( or they )wasn't sold..... yep i was sure that this was the end result....... Diabeties.

Now as regards the Atkins Diet from February i have been reading the "Atkins Diabetic Revolution" book (£4 off amazon secondhand) and i have been cutting out all bread, even the (brown as it sends me to sleep) and have been having only proteins and "Good Veg" and keeping the Carbs to around 20g per day, and personally i haven't felt better for ages, my sugars down to around 8.0 (it was 16.0) and i have a lot more energy, the weight isn't coming off at the moment, but i have also recently cut out the alcohol because of what i read about the side effects of Metformin so that might help with that.

A friend to has found that following a low carb diet has got him down from 20stone down to around 18.5stone and his sugars are down also.

i am not promoting the book or damning the evidence thats in it, all i know is it's working for me, its given me a lot of valuable information about whats going on in my body and why its (probably)happened to me, getting this cursed disease.

Alan SB

 

[Lucozade]

What is even stranger Sid is this comment was from a person who posted that he ate,
.....a mini chocolate cheesecake
.....several packets of crisps
.....half a bottle of lucozade
.....a piece of swiss roll
in an evening :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Some people can eat sandwiches, some eat an open sandwich, some don't eat sandwiches and all have different metabolisms and insulin resistance so let's get away from the idea that bread is not to be eaten by all diabetics.

Hey! Come on, don't get all bent out of shape about my silly sense of "food humour" people! As for my carb binge, yes, it was FANTASTIC but I know, not good for me, but hey, you gotta live and if I could avoid carbs ALWAYS, I would, but I can't. Hell, I'm human!

I call bread, "death bread" pure and simply because for ME, personally, it puts me to sleep. It DOES NOT stop me from LOVING bread and I don't think all bread is bad, it's just a nickname I gave it due to it making me so sluggish.

As to carb wars, hey I'm no evangelist over one way versus another, I love food, all food and I am still finding out what works for me and what doesn't. In my weight training days, I used to like low carb, high protein, good fats type diet and felt good and thrived on it but BREAD is my downfall, I absolutely LOVE bread, but it makes me fat and sluggish, hence my silly nicknames for it, bread of doom, death bread, etc! :lol:

Please don't take me so seriously next time I throw in some silly humour, good God, this carb thing certainly does arouse some strong emotions!

 

[Lucozade]

TBH there is a difference - if it is a complete shake then it has to be labelled as a meal replacement such as slimfast etc.

Protein powders are aimed as protein replacements usually as a sports supplements - if they are only 3g carb they are not a meal replacement - can you specify which protein powder you are using ?

allyx

I used that one only as an example, if you wanted more carbs that would be up to you...add something else or use a different powder. Or you could try something like LipoTrim which is labelled up as a meal replacement but nutritionally is no different to constructing a properly balanced meal using a powder and supplements. If that is the choice rather than eating a sandwich every day and then comletely falling off the low carb wagon and gaining weight (if low carb is what works for you) then personally I'd rather have a meal replacement rather than go down the weight gain route. As to asking for names, I don't think it's appropriate to discuss specific brands or products here, anyone that is seriously interested in this kind of eating would of course find the information easily by conducting proper research.

All I can say is I love bread and would love to eat a sandwich every day but I fall asleep when I do and no matter how much I love bread, it just doesn't agree with me, as evidenced by my sluggishness when I fall off the wagon, hence my ironic nickname, devil bread, which seems to have upset a few people here, even though I am a major bread lover myself!

However, my problems are different in that I find it impossible to gain weight, in fact it takes a miracle for me to gain weight, having have lost 21 lb since Christmas for no reason, despite packing myself with food all day every day and finding it impossible to gain any weight. I have to eat about 4000-5000 calories per DAY just to maintain my weight. Believe me, that is just as hard a problem to manage as being overweight/obese and trying to lose weight and causes just as many problems in trying to sort out whilst working and travelling for work.

My point was really that it was a shame for you to abandon something that you said worked for you, purely on the basis of one meal a day being harder to manage and resorting to a sandwich then that having the knock on effect of you abandoning the whole framework of something that seemed to work for you.

 

[graham64]

Graham
Short memory me thinks, but here’s the link to the thread that you and several others took part in viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7656&hilit=exeter

Ok Jopar so were is the link to the study :?: , all we have is anecdotal evidence from Ally, so no short memory from me there methinks... If you had read my post you will have noticed I stated that no initial findings had been published... :roll:

Graham

 

[jopar]

Graham

At the end of the day, even before publication, the information discussed has been released, but not full publication, and yorself, fergus et el, all tried to trash the research even before the main conclusion was/is published..

And again, within this thread you have asked us to believe the anecdotal edvidence of that you and the other all followers Atkins theories are are fine, so it's not dangerous, but now I've pointed out a thread you are saying that it can't be accepted because in your opinion it's anecdotal edvidence put forward, even though the information put forward is from a validated research source, and the researchers had released some of their primary findings, but where finalising there conclusions!!!

I wish you lot would make your minds up to what you consider validated, and/or anecdotal edvidence and stick to it, not determin what can and can't be accepted dependant on whether you agree with it or not..

But there again, it seems that you can preach low carb theories to others, belittle those who require medication and follow a normal diet... But you and your followers do not have to practice what you preach, and you can decide whether to take medication after all, fallening of the wagon and using medication is now termed latitude perpose!!!!!

 

[ally5555]

oh dear - deja vu.

Graham if you trawl the literature (not forums and websites run by quacks!) there is enough evidence to show that there are various types of regimes that control type 2 - as for anecdotal evidence it is not scientific but just remember that those of us who actually work in the nhs do actually see and work with alot of real people so I feel confident that what I report is fact - I have the facts as well - access to medical records!

As for Atkins it is a business and is falling off the wagon as the diet has become yesterdays regime! That is why they are trying to revive it with a not so low plan!

Off to work soon!

 

[IanD]

oh dear - deja vu.

Graham if you trawl the literature (not forums and websites run by quacks!) there is enough evidence to show that there are various types of regimes that control type 2 - as for anecdotal evidence it is not scientific but just remember that those of us who actually work in the nhs do actually see and work with alot of real people so I feel confident that what I report is fact - I have the facts as well - access to medical records!

As for Atkins it is a business and is falling off the wagon as the diet has become yesterdays regime! That is why they are trying to revive it with a not so low plan!

Off to work soon!

I'm a real person, admittedly only one, but I have been down the NHS/DUK diet route, & suffered the predicted complications.

Also I have not followed or studied Atkins, so I cannot comment on his diet.

Correct me if I am wrong, but what has filtered out from the Exeter low carb study (as reported by you) is that
1. short term results show benefits;
2. sustaining a low carb diet is a problem, with a high drop out rate
3. long term results are not available
and
4. anecdotal results from long term low/reduced carbers (e.g. Fergus, Graham, Hana, myself & others) are not acceptable as valid data.

Also you do recommend reduced/controlled carb consumption at a rate vastly less than DUK/NHS.

IS what the Atkins folk are trying to revive substantially the reduced carb diet that many of us find successful on this forum :?:

 

[ally5555]

Hi - I know you are real but was just commenting that I see alot of people every week - actually in person!

The thing is ian that so many depts are not promoting this so called high carb approach either - I feel as though I am repeating this !

 

[Patch]

Has anybody seen any real evidence that following a restriced carbohydrate regime IS dangerous? And by that I mean, has anybody been diagnosed with a specific illness (Kidney failure, for example) while on a lo-carb regime, and had the illness directly linked to either:

reduced Carb intake
increased fat intake
increased protein intake

I'd really like to know. Because - if this evidence does exist, I'd be inclined to stop lo-carbing. I'm not interested in following a dangerous regime.

All I've ever heard is statements made by doctors that "increased protein intake MAY cause kidney problems" - no solid evidence.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Most consultants and doctors will tell you that smoking is bad for your lungs and heart and yet my wife's great grandmother is in her 90's and has smoked all her life and has never suffered a lung or heart problem. Does this mean all the doctors are wrong Patch?


Similarly most consultants and doctors will tell you that too much saturated fat in your diet is bad for you despite some people apparently eating lard by the truck load. Does this mean all doctors are wrong Patch?


BTW I smoked all my life till I suffered acute respiratory failure 3 years ago, I lived in denial, thinking it wont happen to me, needless to say I have not smoked a cigarette since.

 

[catherinecherub]

Read these three stories Patch.
Two are from survivors of the Atkins diet and the other one is told by the parents of a girl who died.

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/survivor.html

 

[IanD]

Read these three stories Patch.
Two are from survivors of the Atkins diet and the other one is told by the parents of a girl who died.

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/survivor.html

Is that cause & effect? Presumably we can infer that Atkins did not protect them from heart disease. We are constantly being told by the HPs on this site that anecdotal reports are not valid evidence. In the case of the young girl, & any youngster, proper nutrition is recommended, not a restrictive diet.

Two healthy & fit young men I knew, one in my family, died while playing football. Atkins wasn't to blame.

 

[catherinecherub]

Whether you agree or disagree the risk is there and is it a risk you are willing to take surely has to be the question that you ask yourself.
Personally I couldn't care less how other people manage their diabetes as long as they don't try to manage mine and other peoples. It is arrogant nonsense for anyone to claim that they know all the answers. Advice is all that we are qualified to give.
I had a friend who went for a health MOT at a reputable private clinic. She was given a clean bill of health and dropped dead the next day from a heart attack. We can all quote about people we know who appeared to be healthy.

 

[IanD]

That's the problem, Catherine, that we can all trawl the internet for anecdotal problems, none of which prove the case. At best they support, or warn against, the action we are prepared to take in our own condition.

Other people's anecdotal experience warned me about the side effects of simvastatin - in my case intense muscle pain. Also the possibilty of health improvement by carb reduction.

OTOH the medically approved medication & advice on diet resulted in predictable progression of the disease & appearance of disabling side effects.

I would rather risk the undocumented & unspecified supposed dangers of a reduced carb diet than suffer the failing health & chronic pain resulting from following NHS/DUK advice.

 

[Synonym]

I had a friend who went for a health MOT at a reputable private clinic. She was given a clean bill of health and dropped dead the next day from a heart attack. We can all quote about people we know who appeared to be healthy.

That is a very good point and it is worth bearing in mind when reading the three stories of Atkins diet problems where they all quite carefully say 'possible' when referring to causes of death or problems. We are all so different and react differently that we cannot possibly know 100%. How much simpler it would all be if there were 100% certainties! :roll:

 

[IanD]

Hi - I know you are real but was just commenting that I see alot of people every week - actually in person!

The thing is Ian that so many depts are not promoting this so called high carb approach either - I feel as though I am repeating this !

You say "so many depts are not promoting this so called high carb approach." That is anecdotal. I get the impression that very few contributors to this forum have met them. The best we ever get, AFTER WE HAVE TRIED A LOW CARB APPROACH is "it works for you, but we cannot recommend it to anyone else."

How do YOU deal with the NHS/DUK advice we all get? (Which YOU agree is wrong.) Apart from the recent X-PERT course, I saw my dietitian 3 times in 10 years. I get Balance every month.

 

[Synonym]

I would rather risk the undocumented & unspecified supposed dangers of a reduced carb diet than suffer the failing health & chronic pain resulting from following NHS/DUK advice.

I agree with Ian and would add that you have to do your own research and measure and weigh all the pros and cons before making your decision. It is no-one else's business really and we all have to take the consequences of our own actions - for better or worse!

Also in Ian's latest post he says, "The best we ever get, AFTER WE HAVE TRIED A LOW CARB APPROACH is "it works for you, but we cannot recommend it to anyone else."

So true and so grudging and so protective of their own backs it would seem. Many people are just too trusting that they are being given full information and so don't question and find out. If you are not told about all the possible avenues to explore and just told the High Carbs line you then go down the route of complications which we are told are "inevitable" - which it clearly is without choices. :evil: :roll:

 

[catherinecherub]

That's the problem, Catherine, that we can all trawl the internet for anecdotal problems, none of which prove the case. At best they support, or warn against, the action we are prepared to take in our own condition.

Other people's anecdotal experience warned me about the side effects of simvastatin - in my case intense muscle pain. Also the possibilty of health improvement by carb reduction.

OTOH the medically approved medication & advice on diet resulted in predictable progression of the disease & appearance of disabling side effects.

I would rather risk the undocumented & unspecified supposed dangers of a reduced carb diet than suffer the failing health & chronic pain resulting from following NHS/DUK advice.

I took statins for a very short while and questioned my GP as to why I had so many side effects. He concurred that they can cause problems and took me off them. It seems ludicrous to me that people will carry on taking them and feeling unwell and do nothing about it.

Not all NHS is bad though Ian. You cannot say that it is all bad as some of it is very good. I was given excellent advice from Day 1 . When I read on these boards that people followed bad NHS advice for up to eight years I begin to question as to why that individual did nothing about it. Perhaps it is about the relationship that some have with their Dr. If your weight is ballooning and your blood sugars are not under control then it seems odd to me to follow the advice. It is your disease and you have the right to ask questions of your Doctor.
I watched a programme last night about the British public being loathe to complain about shoddy goods and services and it would seem that a high proportion of us know that we do not have to put up with this but are loathe to complain as we don't want to upset anyone. Perhaps the same applies to bad management of our diabetes by HCP's.

 

[Synonym]

Yes, people do trust their doctors and other hcp and don't question and neither do they want to upset anyone often because they are concerned about their future care. This is why it is essential that full facts and choices are put before the patient so that they can have the confidence to question.

Not everyone is equally as confident and competent and they do get frightened particularly when they are unwell and therefore not functioning as well as they would normally.