is diabetes reversible

Re: is diabetes reversable

seanrigley said:

Can diabetes be reversed?
Yes! Remission as defined by fasting blood glucose <7.00 mmol without medication is well documented for individuals that have undergone bariatric surgery.

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Well, I'm on diet only, with fasting BGs lower than that, as are a lot of people on this site, but my Diabetes is not "in remission" as a couple of chocolate hob-nobs would prove. If that IS the definition of remission, I think it's meaningless. It's only my great care with diet that keeps my fasting BG at the level it is.

Re: is diabetes reversable

Grazer said:

as a couple of chocolate hob-nobs would prove. If that IS the definition of remission, I think it's meaningless.

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With respect Malc, no-one knows what a couple of chocolate hob-nobs would do, because the minimum practical measure of hob-nobs is half a packet.

Re: is diabetes reversable

borofergie said:

Grazer said:

as a couple of chocolate hob-nobs would prove. If that IS the definition of remission, I think it's meaningless.

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With respect Malc, no-one knows what a couple of chocolate hob-nobs would do, because the minimum practical measure of hob-nobs is half a packet.

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Typing error. Left out "packets of" after the words "couple of"

Re: is diabetes reversable

I reversed my diabetes...



And I now have setebaid

Re: is diabetes reversable

Grazer - I'm with you. I would be very upset if my fasting number got as high as 6. I aim for <5.5. However I know that a couple of hobnobs or a cold/flu would make them a lot highter :cry:

Re: is diabetes reversable

Nice one, Sid! :lol:

seanrigley, as the NICE definition of a non-diabetic fasting blood glucose is between 3.5 and 5.5 mmol/l, I'm afraid "less than 7" doesn't count as remission in my book. I haven't had a FBG in the high 6's for months - I'm still diabetic.

Viv 8)

Re: is diabetes reversable

Just noticed Seanrigley is a non-diabetic student researcher! Back to the studies Sean

Re: is diabetes reversable

Just catching up on this. I thought Gappy's comment was very funny. Does that make me a bad man?

Re: is diabetes reversable

Takes one to know one, Borofergie! or woman :wink:

Viv 8)

Re: is diabetes reversable

Yes,under certain conditions.There is a growing body of evidence that caught early,before the pancreas is permanently damaged,you can reverse the condition.As an example the trigger for some gastric band patients to have the operation is receiving a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes.There is a long running study which shows that 4-5 years after surgery approximately 75%-80% of gastric band patients are on all normal tests free of diabetes.This was the observation made by Newcastle University when they started their trial of 11 patients on a 600cal+non starchy vegetable diet.It is way too early to judge the success of the Newcastle trial,however in my case on finishing my version of the diet my fasting blood levels had dropped from 6.0-6.6 to an average of 4.7,and my GTT test had dropped from 8.2 to 5.5.My test meter shows that I am dealing with glucose peaks much more efficiently than before with levels declining to normal much more rapidly then before,indicating perhaps an increase in insulin sensitivity (I have long since taken myself off my daily Metforminx3)

If I presented myself for diagnosis today I would not be called a type 2 diabetic.In the long run I will be trying to eat only healthy non-processed food in reasonable quantities to try to maintain this improvement.

Re: is diabetes reversable

youngmanfrank said:

If I presented myself for diagnosis today I would not be called a type 2 diabetic.In the long run I will be trying to eat only healthy non-processed food in reasonable quantities to try to maintain this improvement.

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That's excellent Frank, are you still following a reduced carb diet, or are you able to eat "normally"?

Re: is diabetes reversable

It is way too soon to make sweeping generalisations in my case as I have only recently come off my diet,but I have returned to a "normal" diet and am still getting the same results.I used slimfast drinks in my diet and I have read the comment that these are relatively carb high.

I have decided to keep to a maintenance diet of 1800 calories or so for the first few months at least,while maintaining my exercise regime.Today is typical:dog walk after breakfast followed by 30 lengths of the local swimming pool.Busy around the garden all afternoon,but after tea I will drive into Exeter and watch the boy play a game of football,which means standing around in the cold for over an hour (burns a few calories!)

Meals are generally home made and I am actively avoiding food out of boxes,but I am quite prepared to eat (say) a home made lamb pasta or chilli con carne but no larger quantity than would fit into the smallest cereal bowl.

Re: is diabetes reversable

Eating sensibly for the rest of your life is the key to keeping these excellent fasting numbers. I am sure you would agree that you have not actually reversed but like me have it under good control so the odd teaspoon taste of sticky toffee pudding would be able to be coped with by the body It's just that when we get a cold/flu etc there is nothing we can do to stop these fasting numbers going up for a few days (unless someone knows differently!!)

With my latest batch of strips - instead of 4.6 I am getting reading of 5.1 but am not complaining. Does anyone else find that different batches of strips gives different readings?

Re: is diabetes reversable

I am still not sure that it is not possible to reverse diabetes.If 4-5 years after gastric band surgery a previously type 2 diagnosed patient has not reverted to diabetic glucose levels,then how can you say it has not been reversed?

The only clear conclusion I can reach so far is that I am now processing my blood sugars much better.I have a hideous confession.After 8 weeks of iron self will I bought myself a packet of chocolate ginger biscuits and scoffed the lot in celebration.I then read the packet and found out I had consumed 1800 calories at one go and felt sick (and full of self loathing).Two hours later I was back to 6.1 and after a salad tea the next morning I was 4.7.

If four years down the line I am still maintaining these levels of glucose control,then I will consider myself cured.However something made me diabetic,diet obviously plays it part and in future I will be eating a simpler calorie and portion controlled diet.

Re: is diabetes reversable

I think you have answered the question, youngmanfrank. Having got your BGs to non-diabetic levels, you are very definitely 'in remission'.

However, if you go back to eating a packet of chocolate ginger biscuits every day, I would expect you'd very soon be back at diabetic BG levels.

Maybe put it this way - you have been diabetic. Unless you control your eating, you still have the potential to be diabetic again.

Isn't that just what the gastric band surgery does?

Is it a cure? if it might come back?

Just a thought

Viv 8)

Re: is diabetes reversable

Newcastle University seem to be saying that fat on the pancreas "causes" diabetes,so diet the fat off,job done,pancreas regains its normal function and off you go.I don't entirely buy this as it is too simple an explanation,but the inference is if you can keep the fat from reforming with diet and exercise you will be OK in the future.

Excuse me while I walk the dog before going off for my pre lunch swim,I have still got to fit in my 3 mile run before tea.My wife calls me obsessive for some reason,maybe it is because for the first time in our 24 year relationship I now weigh less than she does!

Re: is diabetes reversable

Not trying to be overly pedantic but the Newcastle people are saying it may cause T2 diabetes mellitus, not diabetes, in people who fit a specific profile (as that was what they tested).

I know someone who had a stoma created as part of a large bowel op. They then had the stoma reversed, i.e. they reconnected the two parts of the intestine back up instead of having one bit come out through the stomach wall. That's a very physical demonstration of 'reversal'. The stoma is gone and can not physically reappear without surgical intervention (which may or may not become necessary).

Because we don't really know what causes T2, and why some get it and some don't, it is going to be very hard to prove (on current knowledge) that T2 has been reversed per se, but that you can observe that the response to glucose consumption is within normal tolerances. Nobody has yet done any long term study to say how long this reaction will last.

This is my problem with the work 'reversed'. Diabetes is described by its symptoms (i.e. hyperglycaemia) but is an umbrella for a yet unknown number of conditions with different etiologies. You might reverse the symptoms by this diet (or in fact by taking medication or exercise) but the condition may well not have been reversed.

One of the papers I read suggested that in mice, eating a diet artificially higher in palmitic acid (an FFA) caused impairment in the counter-regulatory mechanism of insulin / glucose production, possibly starting to help understand the link between obesity and T2 diabetes. I guess one of the questions is what other factors are influencing / causing the depositing of fat around the organs that the Newcastle study focused on? That for me is perhaps the key question. Without knowing the answer to that, you can't tell for sure that you won't put the fat back around the pancreas and liver.

But my last point is, as always, kudos to anyone who has lost weight and controlled their blood sugars through whatever means.

Re: is diabetes reversable

Final results now in.Average fasting blood over last 7 days is 4.7.GTT as before 5.5.Hb test now done,which covers the two months of my diet plus the last month of normal eating,and is 38 ( or around 5.6% in old money).All results fall within normal ranges and are substantially reduced on previous results.I am/was an insulin insensitive diabetic and I seem to have increased my insulin sensitivity with the result that blood sugar levels fall more quickly than before.

Weight over last month has remained rock steady at 12 stone exactly,which was first attained in week 7 of my diet,and this represents a BMI of 18.5 and is also my normal weight as a young adult (I am now 62).Upping the exercise during the diet period prevented muscle wasting and increased fat reduction and I am continuing this especially as I no longer run out of energy mid way through my swims and jogs.

I am trying to consume approximately 1800 calories a day,which is roughly what I should need to be comfortable without further weight loss or gain.I am not low carbing but have noticed that my tastes have changed,I prefer to eat more salads and fruits than I did before.I also seem to get full more quickly which is interesting.

Diabetes nurse is now on board and will maintain a watching brief over the next few months of metformin less existence.

Re: is diabetes reversable

Well done! :clap:

You should be very pleased with those results. Let us know how things progress, please.

Viv 8)

Re: is diabetes reversable

I'd never have believed it ,but in my recent experience it does appear to be reversible.

I was diagnosed Type II 7 years ago, and have controlled it by fairly low-carb diet ever since.
Four months ago I began to control post-prandial glucose levels, because it is known that they are a major cardiovascular risk, and by rigorous dieting managed to keep them to well below 7, roughly the same as a non-diabetic would register.

But I then noticed that even after eating a high carb dinner on a night out, my postprandial levels still stayed below 7(normally they would have risen to between 8 and 12 with the amount of carbs I'd eaten).

So I then did an Oral Glucose Tolerance Test (OGTT) which is the one that tells you you're diabetic if you score above 11. My reading was just 6.7 - well below even a pre-diabetic's!

For two weeks now, I have eaten meals with moderate portions of carbs, and the test results have invariably been the same; no different from a non-diabetic's.

I can't explain it, but if it is reproducible, and if it works for years rather than weeks, it could be very useful to anybody with a meter and a little determination .

Incidentally,avoiding carbs is not all that difficult, and dietitians' accusations that low carbing is 'dangerous' is supported by not one scrap of scientific or clinical or statistical evidence. Indeed, all the big dietary trials in recent years have shown that lower carb is actually safer than the standard diet.

Does any one know of other similar cases?

David Wilson

Perth ,Scotland