It's the medication that's dangerous

[catherinecherub]

Adding a bit of humour to the proceedings.

 

[cugila]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[graham64]

Ken this is a response to your previous post before you edited it :?

I am so glad you are well controlled. It is refreshing to hear. I think I can safely add you to the hypo unbelievers list then ?

As I am sure you are aware, most type two 's struggle to keep BG numbers down, not up. I made the decision to treat my diabetes with diet and exercise. Others like you, have gone the medication route. Each to their own. If you are on certain medications hypo's can be a problem, so you can safely remove me from your list.

Then again, as far as I am aware you aren't on any medication

True but then again the the thread was It's the Medications that's dangerous which of course was Hana's point.

As for the rest of your post, your point is ?

Just a response to your post which your point was :?:

Graham

 

[cugila]

Graham.

My post 8.21pm........your response, posted at 10.39pm. Now you do have me confused...... :?
I wouldn't have thought it was too difficult to respond to my ACTUAL post which as you say I edited. I mean that was over 2 hrs later, plenty of time to do your own editing I would have thought,
especially as you must have seen it before you posted........ :?

I actually think on my feet so I can react to changes, wherever they are made....... My reactions are good.


Never mind..... :wink:

 

[catherinecherub]

Graham,
I find it odd that you say that you chose to treat your diabetes with diet and exercise and that others, including Ken, have gone down the medication route. Do you really think that some diabetics can choose their management?
There seems to be a misconception here that all type 2 diabetics only need dietary changes and exercise to manage their diabetes.

 

[graham64]

Graham.

My post 8.21pm........your response, posted at 10.39pm. Now you do have me confused...... :?
I wouldn't have thought it was too difficult to respond to my ACTUAL post which as you say I edited. I mean that was over 2 hrs later, plenty of time to do your own editing I would have thought,
especially as you must have seen it before you posted........ :?

I actually think on my feet so I can react to changes, wherever they are made....... My reactions are good.


Never mind..... :wink:

Ken
I copy and paste into word as a rule, so I have a record for future reference. The“2 hrs later“ was spent attending to other matters, and as your edited post added nothing new I saw no reason to change my answer. But to keep you happy I will respond.

Really.....I doubt very much that you would have known anything about it. Mild Hypoglycaemia can be worked through very easily. Have you NEVER found yourself sweating, felt faint, gone pale, had a headache, had tingling lips, felt your heart pounding, been anxious, had blurred vision, felt hungry, been irritable or confused, found your concentration lacking, felt like your personality has changed (shouting at the kids, ranting at the telly, newspapers, life in general,) found it difficult to get up in the morning, or shaking..... Just some of the symptoms that you might get, not all of course. One I could add to the list is a blocked nose....very annoying, all rectified with two or three Glucotabs and a snack.

The answer to all those is NO I have NEVER experienced any of those symptoms, but if that's the effects of medications it reinforces my determination to stay on diet only for as long as possible. As for two or three Glucotabs and a snack, what are we talking about 20g carbs? that's more than I have in my meals, in fact I found my BG will climb from a low without the need to eat.

Hope that helps :wink:
Graham

 

[graham64]

Catherine

Graham,
I find it odd that you say that you chose to treat your diabetes with diet and exercise and that others, including Ken, have gone down the medication route. Do you really think that some diabetics can choose their management?
There seems to be a misconception here that all type 2 diabetics only need dietary changes and exercise to manage their diabetes.

In most cases a type 2 diabetic can choose their own management. Ken consumes more carbs. than me and requires medication to keep his BG numbers in a safe range. Using medication to lower blood glucose can override the bodies natural safety response mechanism and allow an overly low BG and cause a hypo. As the thread title suggests "It's the medication that's dangerous" for many diabetics.

Interpretation
Glucose thresholds for counter-regulatory hormone secretion are altered in well controlled type-2 diabetic patients, so that both symptoms and counter-regulatory hormone release can take place at normal glucose values. This effect might protect type-2 diabetic patients against episodes of profound hypoglycaemia and make the achievement of normoglycaemia more challenging in clinical practice.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... 40-6736(00)03322-5/abstract

There seems to be a misconception here that all type 2 diabetics only need dietary changes and exercise to manage their diabetes.

I am aware as I have often stated in other threads, that some type 2 diabetics have to use insulin and other medication to gain control. But as I said, most of us have a choice, perhaps it's the lack of diabetes education and adherence to DUK/NHS starchy carb diet that leads many to unnecessary medications.

Merry Christmas
Graham

 

[catherinecherub]

Arrogance diminishes wisdom.

Lots of people do not have a choice as to the management of their condition. For some type 2's , choices come later when they have managed to get things under control with medications/insulin.
For others, there will never be a choice and they will always need medication/insulin. We cannot accept that it is as easy as reducing carbohydrates. What we can realize is that everyone is different and have different responses to food and medication.

 

[cugila]

Have you NEVER found yourself sweating, felt faint, gone pale, had a headache, had tingling lips, felt your heart pounding, been anxious, had blurred vision, felt hungry, been irritable or confused, found your concentration lacking, felt like your personality has changed (shouting at the kids, ranting at the telly, newspapers, life in general,) found it difficult to get up in the morning, or shaking..... Just some of the symptoms that you might get, not all of course.

Graham.

You must be a remarkable fellow. All those symptoms above whilst denoting the onset of Hypoglycaemia for a Clinical definition are just the things that denote low blood sugars, in ANYBODY, Diabetic or not !

Now you, must be the only person, probably in the World, who has NEVER had experience of any of those things listed ? Forget about hypoglycaemia for a moment. Just think of life events.

I am impressed, you must tell us how you did such a thing. Was it Yoga perhaps, meditation, I am interested to hear just how that could be. Might not be able to assist me but I am sure many of our younger members would love to know just how they can avoid such things through their lives.....?
Perhaps it was something to do with your lifestyle over 60+ years, fascinating !

Hand on heart I have to admit to ALL of them at some point in my life, mostly prior to Diabetes. Some I am not particularly proud of (ranting at the kids), but they are all normal reactions which anybody at some time would have experienced.

As for my choices, I didn't have any. My levels were such that I went straight onto medication, only way to go. Not every body has a choice you know. Depends on the severity of the disease, the condition. Not everything can be fixed by diet only.

Oh yes, my carb count at mealtimes is at the moment around 30g per meal. A necessity. However, prior to a few weeks ago it was anything between 20 -25g per meal, not a great deal different from you. As for my hypo remedy, two Glucotabs is 8g carbs, and a smal snack would be no more than another 6g or so, a total of 14g carbs.....nothing much really in the way of snacks. Anyway it is for medicinal purposes, not for pleasure. I HAVE to take them. No choice yet again. Just a remedy for something that would make me feel bad. I know which I prefer to do.

BTW, I shan't be editing this one, so you are quite safe to copy it if you want.

Hope that helps. :wink:

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Have you NEVER found yourself sweating, felt faint, gone pale, had a headache, had tingling lips, felt your heart pounding, been anxious, had blurred vision, felt hungry, been irritable or confused, found your concentration lacking, felt like your personality has changed, found it difficult to get up in the morning,

Sounds like an average Saturday night out when I was younger :lol:

 

[Synonym]

Sadly this discussion is now descending from its instructional heights to a rather crabby exchange which makes it hard to follow. We all know ( even us newbies ) that one size does not fit all and that we have to work out for ourselves what suits our own particular make-up so why get so uptight when people do different things. :shock: Be cool chaps! 8)

 

[Fujifilm]

ranting at the telly, newspapers, life in general, found it difficult to get up in the morning

Have you been talking to my wife? :lol:

 

[cugila]

ranting at the telly, newspapers, life in general, found it difficult to get up in the morning

Have you been talking to my wife? :lol:

Fuji.

After what you have said about her on here.....are you mad !!! :shock:

 

[graham64]

Ken,

Graham.

You must be a remarkable fellow. All those symptoms above whilst denoting the onset of Hypoglycaemia for a Clinical definition are just the things that denote low blood sugars, in ANYBODY, Diabetic or not !

I thought we were talking about DIAGNOSED DIABETICS and Hypo's here :!: . I'll reiterate I have never had anything even resembling a hypo since diagnosis. The following probably explains why;

When blood glucose begins to fall, glucagon—another hormone made by the pancreas—signals the liver to break down glycogen and release glucose into the bloodstream. Blood glucose will then rise toward a normal level. In some people with diabetes, this glucagon response to hypoglycemia is impaired and other hormones such as epinephrine, also called adrenaline, may raise the blood glucose level. But with diabetes treated with insulin or pills that increase insulin production, glucose levels can’t easily return to the normal range.

In adults and children older than 10 years, hypoglycemia is uncommon except as a side effect of diabetes treatment. Hypoglycemia can also result, however, from other medications or diseases, hormone or enzyme deficiencies, or tumors

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/h ... nodiabetes

Now you, must be the only person, probably in the World, who has NEVER had experience of any of those things listed ? Forget about hypoglycaemia for a moment. Just think of life events.

I have NEVER experienced Hypoglycaemia symptoms since DIAGNOSIS, different thing altogether.

I am impressed, you must tell us how you did such a thing. Was it Yoga perhaps, meditation, I am interested to hear just how that could be. Might not be able to assist me but I am sure many of our younger members would love to know just how they can avoid such things through their lives.....?
Perhaps it was something to do with your lifestyle over 60+ years, fascinating !

So kind of you to be impressed, but I have always implied that I have never experienced any symptoms since “Diagnosis”. That you wish to expand this topic to a lifestyle pre-diabetes theme is your decision, I have no intention of being drawn into it :wink: . Anyhow I never liked Yoga Bear :lol: :lol: :lol:

SINCE DIAGNOSIS controlling my diet by restricting carbohydrates and avoiding high spikes has got my diabetes under control and has avoided the necessity for medications.
As the thread title says “It's the medication that's dangerous”,though some medications including metformin are not implicated when taken alone.

Other types of diabetes pills, when taken alone, do not cause hypoglycemia. Examples of these medications are

acarbose (Precose)
metformin (Glucophage)
miglitol (Glyset)
pioglitazone (Actos)
rosiglitazone (Avandia)

For a list of Diabetic and other medications/medical conditions that can cause Hypoglycaemia see the following link;

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/h ... nodiabetes

Hand on heart I have to admit to ALL of them at some point in my life, mostly prior to Diabetes. Some I am not particularly proud of (ranting at the kids), but they are all normal reactions which anybody at some time would have experienced.

They say confessions good for the soul :lol:

As for my choices, I didn't have any. My levels were such that I went straight onto medication, only way to go. Not every body has a choice you know. Depends on the severity of the disease, the condition. Not everything can be fixed by diet only.

Like I've said many times before some people have no choice due to late diagnosis and other medical conditions.

Oh yes, my carb count at mealtimes is at the moment around 30g per meal. A necessity. However, prior to a few weeks ago it was anything between 20 -25g per meal, not a great deal different from you. As for my hypo remedy, two Glucotabs is 8g carbs, and a smal snack would be no more than another 6g or so, a total of 14g carbs.....nothing much really in the way of snacks. Anyway it is for medicinal purposes, not for pleasure. I HAVE to take them. No choice yet again. Just a remedy for something that would make me feel bad. I know which I prefer to do.

As I eat 4 meals a day plus snacks. I'd say there is a difference as the 20 -25g per meal would equate to 80 -100g per day for me. I can't handle the level of carbs per meal that you eat, breakfast for instance has got to be minimal carbs, that leaves about 50g to be spread through 3 meals and snacks.
Your original :wink: post did state two or three Glucotabs and a snack hence the 20g carbs that you could consume, so shall we'll say 14-18g then :|

BTW, I shan't be editing this one, so you are quite safe to copy it if you want.

I'll take your word for that :lol: :lol: :lol:

Merry Christmas to all
Graham

 

[cugila]

Graham.

Thank you so much for that, although I'm sure I have seen most of it before..... :?

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you too.

Ken

 

[graham64]

All the best to you and yours Ken have a good Christmas.

Cheers
Graham

 

[wallycorker]

Good stuff that Graham!

Your explanations certainly seem to be the way that things work on me - i.e. another non-insulin dependent Type 2 such as yourself. In fact, we always sound to be very similar in many respects.

Have a great Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Best wishes - John

 

[cugila]

In fact, we always sound to be very similar in many respects.

That's very true John, remarkable in fact...... :wink:

Merry Christmas & A Happy and Healthy New Year to you and yours.

 

[catherinecherub]

Twins!!! Graham and Wally. :wink:
Hope both of you have a lovely Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Catherine.

 

[wallycorker]

Twins!!! Graham and Wally. :wink:
Hope both of you have a lovely Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Catherine.

.......and the same to you twins too!

Best wishes - John