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Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition under co

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

hanadr said:
I heard a broadcast snippet on BBC RADio 4 the other day claiming that the Medical Research council in Cambridge has pretty much proven that weight is likely to be genetically fixed. It's not a simple lifestyle matter. In any case very few people lose a significant amount of weight and keep it off for as much as 5 years.
The only diet, for which I have seen evidence of longterm success is Atkins. This is systematically rubbished and pronounced dangerous.
We all now know that counting calories and low fat diets just don't work in the long term. Even Baryatric surgery fails eventually in many cases and loads of people like me, who are not hugely overweight wouldn't qualify for any kind of treatment for that weight.
Doctors just tell you to lose some, but don'tdo much to help. I suspect there's not much which can be done.
I'm struggling to get even a kilo at a time off and I do understand the metabolic issues.[and I'm low carb about 90% of the time. I have an occasional slip-up!]
Hana
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Phrases like 'pretty much proven' and 'likely' are a bit wishy-washy for my liking. I got down from 18st to 13.5 without a special diet except for cutting out alcohol. Keeping it off was easy for 2.5 years UNTIL I started drinking alcohol again (slowly back up to 16st). I am now on the way down again (without the alcohol) and my expectation is to keep my weight down and to survive to an older age than Atkins did.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Dr Atkins died aged 72 when he slipped on ice on his way to work, and hit his head. He didn't die as a result of cutting down on carbs.


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

It was at Chapel End School in Walthamstow that I did cookery with the girls. And nobody ever once took the **** out of me for doing that. If they had done so, I perhaps would have laughed first off. And then maybe I would have hit them. I suppose it would have depended on what exactly they said, and the way that they said it.

After all these years, I think you are actually the first person to even come close to taking the **** for what I did, or to appear to do so. And that's quite striking.

In fact, I thought it might be a bit of a laugh to do cookery. Being a boy, I was already doing woodwork. (My father was a joiner, and I learned more about woodworking from him.) And I didn't really fancy doing metalwork too, which all the other boys did in addition to woodwork.

The girls also did needlework, which I'd say would be useful for anyone. But my mother was, and still is, handy with a needle and thread. And I picked things up from her.

Of course, on the face of it, all of this has nothing to do with diabetes. But I believe it has everything to do with a certain pathology of thought and behaviour. And I'm quite sure that such pathology does have a great deal to do with the modern, Western diabetes epidemic, and with the mismanagement of diabetes.

If p-i-s-s can be automatically deleted, then I'm surprised that 'poof' and 'homo' passes muster. That's a sign of yet more pathology of thought and behaviour, I'd say.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

gezzathorpe said:
Are you on commission or have you just got the 'hots' for Ching-He? 8) 8) 8)
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Not at all sir. I am just as partial to Manjula's cooking as to Ching-He Huang's, despite the considerable age difference.

Here she makes a wholewheat gobi paratha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btY8c82RWgI

gezzathorpe said:
It's quite easy to adapt a recipe without destroying it. For example, paella, byriani, jambalaya to name a few.
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That is essentially what I do and, just to show no sex bias, my favourite meal of late is the Hairy Biker's Southern Style Chicken and Prawn Jambalaya but with brown rice and other ingredients tweaked to better suit diabetes.

The attraction of the indian or chinese cooking is that the spices perk up the simplest of ingredients. Chole for example is mainly chickpeas with tomato. The spices transform an otherwise bland meal.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

michaeldavid said:
I read an article the other day about Ethiopia: it's one of Africa's major sugar producers. And it will soon be producing much more sugar. So it's clear what way Africa is now headed.

The likes of sugar and white flour, etcetera, should be heavily taxed - bloody potato crisps, too.

Or is that unrealistic?
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The last 50 years have seen cash crops come and go whether it's palm oil or bananas. Yes there is a case for stopping coffee being cultivated and the land being turned over to growing crops that feed people rather than generate cash but, until oil is sold in currencies other than dollars, these countries need cash. What does Ethiopia do to earn the $1.3 billion that it needs to buy the oil that it requires? What has Ethiopia got to sell? It exports $3.2 billion but imports $10.6 billion. That's why it's poor. Taxing its produce will not help.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

michaeldavid said:
Okay, point taken. But I wonder if sugar alone couldn't realistically be taxed. I believe this might have a significant educative effect.
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As long as we believe in free trade and are members of the World Trade Organisation, these steps cannot be taken without the risk of retaliatory sanctions. Britain, Germany, Italy and France already have certain product groups targetted by the USA who impose punitive 400% tariffs on them for the EU's refusal to allow the import of hormone injected beef from the USA. Subsidies to one south American country are seen as protectionist by the USA because they put american banana producers at a disadvantage in other south american countries.

Australia; Barbados; Belize; Canada; China; Colombia; Cuba; Fiji; Guyana; India; Jamaica; Kenya; Madagascar; Malawi; Mauritius; New Zealand; Paraguay; Saint Kitts and Nevis; Swaziland; Tanzania; Thailand; Trinidad and Tobago; United States and Côte d’Ivoire are all complaining already about the EU's subsidy to sugar beet farmers and if you want to tax sugar, you further discriminate against all those sugar producing countries. It would just be seen as a prelude to a trade war.

Here's a list of cases heard by the WTO in reverse chronological order: http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dis ... atus_e.htm
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

gezzathorpe said:
yes ... we lived in t'shoebox on t'motorway!
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Aye lad, in Yorkshire, where the M62 is cobbled, men are men and the sheep nervous.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

michaeldavid said:
If p-i-s-s can be automatically deleted, then I'm surprised that 'poof' and 'homo' passes muster. That's a sign of yet more pathology of thought and behaviour, I'd say.
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One would need to consult the Historical Thesaurus of the Oxford English Dictionary, http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/de ... even-poole

A must for anyone who wondered when terms like rhino, moolah, sponduliks, akkers etc., all terms for money, were used.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Sketcher said:
Dr Atkins died aged 72 when he slipped on ice on his way to work, and hit his head. He didn't die as a result of cutting down on carbs.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
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I know. I don't think I said he did. Wish people would read posts more carefully.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

michaeldavid said:
It was at Chapel End School in Walthamstow that I did cookery with the girls. And nobody ever once took the **** out of me for doing that. If they had done so, I perhaps would have laughed first off. And then maybe I would have hit them. I suppose it would have depended on what exactly they said, and the way that they said it.

After all these years, I think you are actually the first person to even come close to taking the **** for what I did, or to appear to do so. And that's quite striking.

In fact, I thought it might be a bit of a laugh to do cookery. Being a boy, I was already doing woodwork. (My father was a joiner, and I learned more about woodworking from him.) And I didn't really fancy doing metalwork too, which all the other boys did in addition to woodwork.

The girls also did needlework, which I'd say would be useful for anyone. But my mother was, and still is, handy with a needle and thread. And I picked things up from her.

Of course, on the face of it, all of this has nothing to do with diabetes. But I believe it has everything to do with a certain pathology of thought and behaviour. And I'm quite sure that such pathology does have a great deal to do with the modern, Western diabetes epidemic, and with the mismanagement of diabetes.

If p-i-s-s can be automatically deleted, then I'm surprised that 'poof' and 'homo' passes muster. That's a sign of yet more pathology of thought and behaviour, I'd say.
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Well ... I used to be a Morris Dancer so stones and glasshouses come to mind. :D :D
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman said:
gezzathorpe said:
yes ... we lived in t'shoebox on t'motorway!
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Aye lad, in Yorkshire, where the M62 is cobbled, men are men and the sheep nervous.
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Do you remember 'The Testing Of Eric Postlethaite' from 'Ripping Yarns'?
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

gezzathorpe said:
Sketcher said:
Dr Atkins died aged 72 when he slipped on ice on his way to work, and hit his head. He didn't die as a result of cutting down on carbs.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
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I know. I don't think I said he did. Wish people would read posts more carefully.
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Hello gezzathorpe. By "people", I assume you mean me, as you quoted my post; if you didn't mean me, then you should ignore the rest of this post. I did read your post carefully; you juxtaposed a statement about reducing your weight without a special diet, with one about keeping your weight down in the same way, and outliving the famous proponent of a special diet:

Quote: "Phrases like 'pretty much proven' and 'likely' are a bit wishy-washy for my liking. I got down from 18st to 13.5 without a special diet except for cutting out alcohol. Keeping it off was easy for 2.5 years UNTIL I started drinking alcohol again (slowly back up to 16st). I am now on the way down again (without the alcohol) and my expectation is to keep my weight down and to survive to an older age than Atkins did." Unquote

Any reasonable person reading this would believe that you were making a point about how Dr Atkins met his end: if not, why not just say you intend to live at least another 10 years (to save readers the bother of looking up that you are 62 and Atkins died at 72); or use the example of some other person who also died at the age of 72 (Richie Havens, John Wayne, Paul Shane)? I think my inference (based on the assumption that you thought about what you were posting, and the observation that you are normally a high quality contributor to this forum) was reasonable.


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Sketcher said:
why not just say you intend to live at least another 10 years (to save readers the bother of looking up that you are 62 and Atkins died at 72);
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I read the statement, "my expectation is to keep my weight down and to survive to an older age than Atkins" as you suggest, in fact, longer than you suggest. It is open to a degree of ambiguity but it's hardly a point worth persuing once clarified.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Good point, Yorksman. I admit I gave in to a slight feeling of umbrage (is that how you spell it?) at the suggestion that I had not read the post correctly.


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

As far as I know Sketcher, yes.

People often write as they would voice the sentiments but, when writing them, it can come out different. Our motto at my place of work used to be:

"I know you say that you understand what you think you heard me say but I am not sure that you realise that what I said is not what I meant."

Or words to that effect.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman said:
"I know you say that you understand what you think you heard me say but I am not sure that you realise that what I said is not what I meant."

Or words to that effect.
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Hope you don't mind me asking, but where did you work?? ;)


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Sid Bonkers said:
Giving out test strips is totally useless and a waste of money without education on how to use them, T2's who do get test strips are often told to test every morning or twice a day!! What the hell for? All thats going to tell you is what your levels are at that time!!

The only way to get control of T2 is to test everything you eat in every combination and portion size, then over the course of several months/years if you have worked hard you will have your diabetes under control and will not need to test so regularly, in fact a couple of times a week once you have good control is probably fine. But you need to get that control in the first place.
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IME quite a few people within the NHS are rather anti-testing for T2s. Including advising no need to test at all or advocating the likes of "test on alternate days". The latter only possibly making sense to people who ate exactly the same thing at exactly the same time, at the same time, every day.

You'll only tend find advice along the lines of "Test before AND after eating. Then decide if eating X raises your blood glucose too much." from forums like this one.

Now lets look at obesity, we know that 80% of T2's were overweight at diagnosis and we know that loosing weight will help to improve insulin resistance but how many diabetics manage to lose enough weight for this to happen?
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How many people would actually lose weight following the commonly given dietary guidelines? Wonder how much help someone would get if they reported not losing (even gaining) weight doing what amounts to "lots of glucose with every meal".
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman said:
michaeldavid said:
The kind of food advertised on the television, and widely sold in supermarkets, has a still more major part to play.
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Well to a large degree low fat means high sugar and low sugar means high fat. They could do with stopping that. Also, take aways are notoriously bad. Ching-He Huang's Healthy Chinese cooking showed how 1 typical sweet and sour takeaway contained more fat than 20 burgers. The number of these outlets must have quadrupled where I live.
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Not that meaningful a metric, since burgers can vary greatly in what's in them. (Even if they actually contain "meat" from the right animal.) There also don't appear to be any chain/franchise "Chinese" takeaways so what they actually supply may vary greatly.

Also food labels mislead by separating "sugars" from "carbohydrates". Even though starches are quite often worst in terms of both GI and GL.

At least there are many programs now which teach healthier cooking and there is a lot of info available. The number of farm shops and specialist markets too seems to be increasing but, as Sid states, you can lead a horse to water but ...
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Assuming we actually know what actually is "healthier" for humans. Quite a bit of the 70-80's radical change in eating advice has been proven to be less healthy. As well as this being the period of time in which both obesity and T2 has increased. How many cookery programs are using recipes which predate 1980?
 
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