Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition under co

[Anonymous]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman you miss my point - I think that my kids know all and more than they need to know about exercising good choices and the consequence of not doing so - I was being figurative when I said how do we teach our kids, not literal.

The point is how do we as a society lobby for our fellow countrymen and their offspring who are less well informed than most people here, to be better informed etc etc? We here can only help to inform those that we know - who deals with everyone else?


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin

I am assuming that you are thinking of T2 diabetics where the wider public has a choice? What would be the objective of informing the wider public? Spiralling costs to the NHS or pure altruism? Prevention or management of the condition? Is there a definitive position on the condition with regards to causes and management with which to inform others? I don't get that impression even from this site, certainly on the question of prevention, since most of us are already beyond that, or the best way to manage it or the end result thereof. Change, e.g. lifestyle change, is one of the most difficult things to influence, and can only come from individuals themselves and the information has to be unambiguous and irrefutable, both of which are nigh on impossible. People seem to be more influenced by sensational media news, or hastily contrived and very 'dodgy' papers from scientists than sensible, rational facts.

On a personal level, managing my diabetes goes beyond issues like carb intake. I no longer drink alcohol (although I could probably get away with the odd drink). I 'sit out' sugar cravings and don't hunt around for low-sugar sweets or low-sugar copies of the things I crave or miss (bit like a vegetarian making a pie which looks like a meat pie). I fix or preempt a hypo with an apple rather than a dextrose tablet or cocacola (appreciating this may only work for me). I eat the minimum of packaged foods and eat fresh as much as I can. I don't 'do' sweet desserts. If offered a biscuit or piece of cake I take them rather than telling people why I can't. The bag of Tate and Lyle sugar in my pantry is over two years old. My carb intake is around 250g per day and average bG 5.9. But, guess what? I am described as being 'lucky' rather than managing my diabetes well which rules me out as a role model. But, hey ho!I hope my 'luck' continues to hold out.

 

[Neil Walters]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

If you go back to the original thread this was about why is it that so few people have modest control of their condition but hey as you say you are fine - so that's ok we can all relax then


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

The fact that only 20% of diabetics have their condition under control is hardly surprising when most diabetics dont even seem to care until the complications start and by then they have been brainwashed into believing that "its inevitable" Whats the point of changing anything when T2 diabetes always leads to insulin and will kill you, "I'll live my life the way I want to" said Jimi Hendrix and thats how most diabetics look at their condition, "well ive only got one live so i'm going to live it the way I want to, why should I stop smoking? Why should I watch what I eat when everyone else can eat what they want? If its going to kill me anyway because its progressive, then I'll just enjoy what live I have left." Now I am sure thats quite a common outlook, that or denial, or is that the same thing? The fact that most doctors dont know much about it of course does not help this situation.

Giving out test strips is totally useless and a waste of money without education on how to use them, T2's who do get test strips are often told to test every morning or twice a day!! What the hell for? All thats going to tell you is what your levels are at that time!!

The only way to get control of T2 is to test everything you eat in every combination and portion size, then over the course of several months/years if you have worked hard you will have your diabetes under control and will not need to test so regularly, in fact a couple of times a week once you have good control is probably fine. But you need to get that control in the first place.

Now lets look at obesity, we know that 80% of T2's were overweight at diagnosis and we know that loosing weight will help to improve insulin resistance but how many diabetics manage to lose enough weight for this to happen? And why many that do then keep that weight off? Again you can lead a horse to water etc.

So most diabetics dont care anyway or thats how it seems and most GP's dont know much about diabetes and many T2's fail to take the advice given to lose weight.

No I am not surprised at all that so many diabetics are not well controlled I am actually surprised that so many are well controlled

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

If you go back to the original thread this was about why is it that so few people have modest control of their condition but hey as you say you are fine - so that's ok we can all relax then


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin

I was clearly responding to your latest post which is why I quoted your post in my reply. I am sorry if that wasn't obvious. Many people don't do this which makes it difficult to know who is responding to whom about what. I don't recall saying I was fine. I don't even know what that means. Only you can explain what you mean. The original thread (post?) doesn't mention the word 'modest' so there you go again. If I quote anyone I quote from what is written in the post rather than replacing it with my own words or interpretation. But then communication is a skill. If people find a random post which is totally unrelated to the thread they can just ignore it. If you don't want people to respond to your posts then just say so or don't post.

 

[Neil Walters]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I am so glad that I am me and not you


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I am so glad that I am me and not you


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin

And this is related to the thread in what way exactly? Are you saying you are glad to be on three drugs rather than none?

 

[Yorksman]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman you miss my point - I think that my kids know all and more than they need to know about exercising good choices and the consequence of not doing so - I was being figurative when I said how do we teach our kids, not literal.

I wasn't writing about exercising good choices or the consequences of not doing things. What would be point of that if they don't understand those matters on which they are expected to choose? I'm talking about independent thinking, finding out for one's self and a process of lifelong learning. 'Exercising good choices' is the sort of hyperbole I wish to avoid. It has no meaning without an explanation of what is meant by 'good' or indeed why it is 'good' is and who is to make those sort of judgements?

The point is how do we as a society lobby for our fellow countrymen and their offspring who are less well informed than most people here, to be better informed etc etc? We here can only help to inform those that we know - who deals with everyone else?

I do not have that missionary zeal and the fact of the matter is that, at the time of writing and despite the fact that there is an All Party Parliamentary Group on Diabetes, they are more concerned with the issue of culling badgers. Personally I'd prefer them to think about stimulating the economy and not blowing more millions on Syria.

Everyone on this forum found their way here and my GP did give me the published literature from DUK. I've learned a lot from this site, about testing, what to look for, what foods to eat etc etc. Rather than lobbying people who frankly have other things to do, just spread the word that here is a useful resource and let them decide. If you feel the need to promote awareness, go to the DUK forum where they organise events for such things.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Soooo, if the strips are so amazing , - and I'm not doubting for a moment that they are, - why are doctors not prescribing them??

PS. I buy my own strips.

I was thinking that, at 11.50 euro for 50 strips, they are similar in price to some meter strips and more expensive than the cheaper strips on the market. Still, not having a meter may make things less cumbersome.

 

[michaeldavid]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

With a good pair of scissors, you can cut each strip into five.

That makes the cost per test around 1/20 of the cost of meter-read sticks.

The UK cost of Betachek Visual is £6.80 for 50 strips.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Now lets look at obesity, we know that 80% of T2's were overweight at diagnosis and we know that loosing weight will help to improve insulin resistance but how many diabetics manage to lose enough weight for this to happen? And why many that do then keep that weight off? Again you can lead a horse to water etc.

According to the Gov.uk website, 61% of people in the UK are overweight or obese.

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/ ... oving-diet

This figure has not arisen because they were unaware of it. "I ain't bovvered" has a major part to play.

 

[michaeldavid]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

The kind of food advertised on the television, and widely sold in supermarkets, has a still more major part to play.

So-called breakfast 'cereals' are a particularly significant example of this, I believe.

 

[Yorksman]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

The kind of food advertised on the television, and widely sold in supermarkets, has a still more major part to play.

Well to a large degree low fat means high sugar and low sugar means high fat. They could do with stopping that. Also, take aways are notoriously bad. Ching-He Huang's Healthy Chinese cooking showed how 1 typical sweet and sour takeaway contained more fat than 20 burgers. The number of these outlets must have quadrupled where I live.

At least there are many programs now which teach healthier cooking and there is a lot of info available. The number of farm shops and specialist markets too seems to be increasing but, as Sid states, you can lead a horse to water but ...

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

The kind of food advertised on the television, and widely sold in supermarkets, has a still more major part to play.

Well to a large degree low fat means high sugar and low sugar means high fat. They could do with stopping that. Also, take aways are notoriously bad. Ching-He Huang's Healthy Chinese cooking showed how 1 typical sweet and sour takeaway contained more fat than 20 burgers. The number of these outlets must have quadrupled where I live.

At least there are many programs now which teach healthier cooking and there is a lot of info available. The number of farm shops and specialist markets too seems to be increasing but, as Sid states, you can lead a horse to water but ...

Are you on commission or have you just got the 'hots' for Ching-He? 8) 8) 8)

Seriously though, many foods around the world are basically very similar but they have different slants on them in terms of ingredients, measures, fat & carb content. It's quite easy to adapt a recipe without destroying it. For example, paella, byriani, jambalaya to name a few. I still go back to good old Delia for basics and some good, healthy recipes, and I suppose my food is a kind of 'fusion' although others may call it roadkill. The one thing I don't do is to try to get my food to taste the same as it tastes in the local Indian or Chinese, because that means I have probably got it wrong.

 

[michaeldavid]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I'll pick a seemingly unrelated example. I smoke tobacco: I roll my own.

But I would never touch ready-made cigarettes. In fact, I believe they should be ... if not banned, then taxed to hell.

If people want to smoke drugs, then I believe they should be required to roll their own. And I'd make the same point with regard to cannabis, which I also smoke (when I can get hold of it). It should be legal, but taxed. And I never, ever want to see manufactured packs of ready-made spliffs.

The point I'm making is that it should be far more difficult and expensive for people to make bad choices.

So I believe the problem revolves around the issue of capitalism. In principle, I have no problem with it. There's no way I could be doing what I do without capitalist culture.

But there is a very serious problem concerning the way things are currently operating. And I believe it's very clear that the diabetes epidemic, and the way in which it's currently being handled, is but one manifestation of this problem.

I read an article the other day about Ethiopia: it's one of Africa's major sugar producers. And it will soon be producing much more sugar. So it's clear what way Africa is now headed.

The likes of sugar and white flour, etcetera, should be heavily taxed - bloody potato crisps, too.

Or is that unrealistic?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I'll pick a seemingly unrelated example. I smoke tobacco: I roll my own.

But I would never touch ready-made cigarettes. In fact, I believe they should be ... if not banned, then taxed to hell.

If people want to smoke drugs, then I believe they should be required to roll their own. And I'd make the same point with regard to cannabis, which I also smoke (when I can get hold of it). It should be legal, but taxed. And I never, ever want to see manufactured packs of ready-made spliffs.

The point I'm making is that it should be far more difficult and expensive for people to make bad choices.

So I believe the problem revolves around the issue of capitalism. In principle, I have no problem with it. There's no way I could not be doing what I do without capitalist culture.

But there is a very serious problem concerning the way things are currently operating. And I believe it's very clear that the diabetes epidemic, and the way in which it's currently being handled, is but one manifestation of this problem.

I spend far less on food now that I cook fresh so I don't think it is so much capitalism as lack of time, willingness or motivation. I've got a cupboard full of herbs and spices (some of which I admit have not seen the light of day for a long time) and I can knock up Moroccan, Turkish, Indian (homemade onion bhajis are good), Oriental and 'Brits abroad' food to create variety with pretty much what is in the kitchen. If I haven't got something I improvise. To take a small example, why bother buying Helleman's Mayonnaise when you can knock up your own larger quantity with a couple of eggs, oil, garlic, mustard and white vinegar in 2 minutes.

Our food bill has dropped from about £250 per month (monthly shop plus extras during the month) to about £100, which astonished me when I realised. I'm just off to the local veg/fruit stall. Whilst I won't claim that these are cheap any more than farmers' markets are, somehow it is working out cheaper. The caulifowers, for example, are huge, and last 2-3 meals. The food also seems to last longer than the refrigerated veg. and fruit on the supermarket shelves before spoiling (although I expect it has been on cold storage just the same).

 

[michaeldavid]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

You seem to be reasonably well educated.

But the teachers in British schools, for example, do not seem to be very well educated at all. Never mind about those who they're supposed to be teaching.

When I was a teenager at school, I opted to do so-called 'domestic science' instead of metalwork. (I was the only boy in that class.) And I can remember it very well: I learned very little. The title 'domestic science' is very telling. What does it have to do with learning about food, and how to cook?

I'm not even sure that they still teach cookery in schools. If they do teach it, I wonder what they call it now.

When I drop into Tesco Express to buy some milk (I buy nothing else there), I see what people are buying - young people especially: they buy basketfuls of junk. They do not have a clue about food.

 

[hornplayer]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

The likes of sugar and white flour, etcetera, should be heavily taxed.

Or is that unrealistic?

You're not wrong - in my opinion, but I think that might be a little unrealistic.

Much of what exists in the accepted modern western diet is there, in some way or other, because of money. - diet foods, for example. Hugely pushed and recommended. - Low fat, but really high in sugar and full of all sorts of nasty things. There is no way the powers that be are going to start recommending we turn away from such products, as the industry which creates them is so enormous. Yes, a tax on unhealthy things would maybe make people think twice, but the backlash from industry would by huge. - and would diet food be included in the healthy or unhealthy pile??

Fast food and ready meals, junk food. We'd all be better off if these things didn't exist, but they do. Children in schools aren't always taught to make things from scratch anymore, most lessons seem to start out with something ready made. - like a pizza base or ready made pastry. Children aren't learning to cook at home because, in many cases, parents are working late or are just too tired to do more than slam something together, if they don't just reach for the phone.

If we really want to control the way people eat, ration cards would maybe be a way forward. ( no, I wasn't around the last time they were in operation! ) Yes, the outcry from the food industry would be deafening but we also have another problem. Human nature. We are almost programmed to want what we can't have. It's the rebellious child in us. People will seek out the things they shouldn't eat and gorge on them , just to spite those who say they shouldn't.

We also have the problem of every one being different. Years ago. Before I had to stop eating gluten completely. I found that white bread was easier to tolerate than any whole grain alternative. I don't know why. It makes no sense, but I'm sure I'm not alone. A tax on white flour would have seemed a bit unfair to me.

Just my opinion.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[michaeldavid]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Okay, point taken. But I wonder if sugar alone couldn't realistically be taxed. I believe this might have a significant educative effect.

But it's surely unrealistic for the likes of us here to be talking about such things, anyway. For none here are politically involved in any significant way.

So back to those testing strips: if the German diabetic association 'Insuliner' can sell them and effectively promote them, why is it that Diabetes UK can't do the same? They don't even seem to know of their existence.

If they were widely prescribed, as opposed to (or in addition to a limited amount of) meter-read sticks, the NHS would undoubtedly save money immediately. And with better education regarding control of blood-sugar, diabetics' long-term health would improve dramatically.

My diabetic control could scarcely be better. Why is it that people like me are not investigated by medical professionals? For with professional involvement, my expertise in diabetic management could very readily be passed on. Indeed, I wonder if there are any medical professionals out there reading this. I suspect not.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

You seem to be reasonably well educated.

But the teachers in British schools, for example, do not seem to be very well educated at all. Never mind about those who they're supposed to be teaching.

When I was a teenager at school, I opted to do so-called 'domestic science' instead of metalwork. (I was the only boy in that class.) And I can remember it very well: I learned very little. The title 'domestic science' is very telling. What does it have to do with learning about food, and how to cook?

I'm not even sure that they still teach cookery in schools. If they do teach it, I wonder what they call it now.

When I drop into Tesco Express to buy some milk (I buy nothing else there), I see what people are buying - young people especially: they buy basketfuls of junk. They do not have a clue about food.

I enjoyed the 'reasonably well educated' :lol: But people don't need a degree to tell the difference between fresh veg. and fruit and
colourful packets. I bet you were called some names at school (I think it was poof or homo then)!! I think that some schools do Domestic Science or Home Food Economics but I don't know to what extent they teach nutrition (e.g. food labelling etc.)

I do, however, remember the bread strikes in the 60's. Queues a mile long, panic buying, stockpiling etc. The parents were obviously lost for something to feed their families on without their daily loaf. Nothing else was in short supply because they weren't panic buying that stuff. Goodness knows what lessons their children were learning. And those were pre-supermarket and mass takeaway days, where fruit and veg. were delivered by mobile grocers (no one needed to shift their arses to shop for food). My father had an allotment which was 6 miles from where we lived (no family car then).... yes ... we lived in
t'shoebox on t'motorway! We knew nothing about good and bad food but we got meat, corned beef, spam!, veggies, fruit and all homemade. And I'm still standing at 62.

 

[hanadr]

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I heard a broadcast snippet on BBC RADio 4 the other day claiming that the Medical Research council in Cambridge has pretty much proven that weight is likely to be genetically fixed. It's not a simple lifestyle matter. In any case very few people lose a significant amount of weight and keep it off for as much as 5 years.
The only diet, for which I have seen evidence of longterm success is Atkins. This is systematically rubbished and pronounced dangerous.
We all now know that counting calories and low fat diets just don't work in the long term. Even Baryatric surgery fails eventually in many cases and loads of people like me, who are not hugely overweight wouldn't qualify for any kind of treatment for that weight.
Doctors just tell you to lose some, but don'tdo much to help. I suspect there's not much which can be done.
I'm struggling to get even a kilo at a time off and I do understand the metabolic issues.[and I'm low carb about 90% of the time. I have an occasional slip-up!]
Hana