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Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition under co

Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Agreed.

No one has said anything to me yet about possible complications and how to reduce the risk. I know a fair bit about it because my mother is diabetic, but no where near as much as I'd like to.

If people aren't being told what can happen, how are they to avoid it? - how are they to see that the potential problems exist in the first place? And, if no one tells them, how do they know what to do? - with the media branding T2s as lazy, fat and a drain on national resources, where are they going to find the courage to stand up and say " excuse me? I have this condition, what do I need to do?" - I should imagine that a lot of people don't even know its possible to control diabetes.

We all know how ill we felt pre diagnosis. If someone who already feels that bad, physically and mentally, is told by their doctor "you have this (fat lazy porker disease that you've totally brought on yourself), take these tablets. NEXT!" How many are going to question further? About 20%??


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

LittleGreyCat said:
Just revisiting this topic.

That 20% has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?

Isn't that the same percentage as T2s who are obese on diagnosis?

Now correlation does not imply causation by any means, but it would be interesting to know how many of the 20% who were T2s and not obese on diagnosis are also the 20% who manage to establish control to the NICE standards. All, half, or perhaps virtually none?

Please note that this is purely scientific curiosity because the numbers seem so similar.

However there does seem to be a chance that some people who are unable or unwilling to control their weight before diagnosis may also be unable or unwilling to successfully manage their BG post diagnosis.

I suspect that the lack of freely available test strips may not be the greatest problem for the majority of diabetics.

The availability of affordable high calorie, high sugar, high carbohydrate food and drink may be more of a problem.
Coupled with the unwillingness of people to make sacrifices now in the hope of better things some time in the future.

If people are unable to relate to long term issues like pensions (relatively few people have been saving for retirement - so much so that the Guvmint has been making pension provision for all workers the default) then they are probably also unlikely to be able to relate eating and drinking less to provide for a healthy retirement.

Even with a strong, decades long campaign against smoking, high taxation, bans from smoking around other people, 'smoking kills' warnings on fag packets etc. loads of people still smoke.

So how are you going to prevent people from eating and living unhealthily?

:twisted: How about making being over weight a criminal offence? Punishable by being put in prison on a reduced diet and high exercise regime? Tourists especially beware!! :twisted:

Firstly, think how much of a vote winner that would be.
Secondly, think how much it would cost to implement (leaving aside the cost of the Human Rights lawyers).
Thirdly, think of the loss of profits of all the food and drink producers (noting that cigarettes have never been made illegal).
Fourthly, think of the impact of having so many workers in jail (although it might cut unemployment at a stroke as others are employed to cover their jobs).

Not sure this will ever get implemented? :lol:

So - does anyone have a scheme which they think would work in persuading people to live a healthy life and vastly reduce the incidence and complications of diabetes?

[For those T1s reading this - yes, I know that obesity is not a major factor in the onset of T1 however T1s are between 5% and 10% of all diabetics so addressing factors for 90% to 95% of diabetics is likely to be harder and cost more. Also, get rid of the T2s and there will be more focus on your care. :) ]

Are we doomed to watch a generation (or two) die early before our children (or their children) really understand the implications of lifestyle?

Or will someone come up with a wonder drug which reverses T1,T2, lung cancer etc. and keeps everyone with whatever lifestyle free from heart, lung, liver, pancreas, kidney and other major organ failure?
Which in turn would allow everyone to indulge themselves as much and as often as they wish.
**** - this is beginning to sound attractive. :lol:

Now if they also invent a super-Viagra which makes a 60 stone immobile drunk chain smoker permanently up for it and irresistibly attractive to all women (ummm.....perhaps not to another 60 stone immobile drunk but there goes the equality legislation) I might be able to kick this diet and exercise malarkey into touch and get back to the 90% of the supermarket shelves I currently studiously avoid.

Cheers

LGC

Please note that reality was only slightly harmed during the composition of this post.
Click to expand...

Even the Newcastle Diet clinical trial concludes two years on that 'These data demonstrate that intentional weight loss achieved at home by health-motivated individuals can reverse Type 2 diabetes'. Note the health-motivated which is not necessarily the same thing as wanting a quick fix for diabetes & weight. How many livers did George Best get through? How many people have used Atkins, Herbalife etc. etc. and benefitted long term?
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I posted this under "Indian Food" but it is relevant here.

At the "Hounslow Cardiovascular Alliance" Meeting 28 May 2013 which is a diabetes support group - with mainly Indians present, the subject of diet came up. (NOT just from me!)

A speaker from "Diabetes Voices" (a DUK initiative) told about it & asked about local needs & concerns. Hounslow has a very high incidence of diabetes, with relatively little follow up, mainly because of the transient population. Heathrow is adjecent to Hounslow.

The session was mainly open discussion with the speaker.

The Indian diet was stated to be a significant part of the problem, with the practice of sharing the Indian sweets, & the basic diet of rice, chapatis naan, etc. My diabetic Indian friends consider that a low carb diet is not practical - all the carbs are part of their diet. At the meeting, many spoke of the importance & benefit of reducing carbs - they mentioned my talk a year ago.

The chairman reported a D screening visit to a gurdwara where the leader told him not to accept what he was told - those screened are likely to have eaten Indian sweets immediately before the blood test - of course they register diabetic.

The problem is not helped by the DUK literature, which stresses a 40-50% carb, low fat diet. They do acknowledge the possibility of a low carb diet - when challenged - but then say that diabetics are all different, & I should do what works for me. "All different" does not stop them giving the same (high carb, low fat) diet advice to everyone newly diagnosed. DUK - we trusted you - until the complications we were warned would come did come.

Diet advice from health professionals was recommended - diabetic nurses now must undergo specific training. I pointed out that most HPs get their training when young, & have no personal experience of T2 diabetes. Diabetes is a long term condition, & the affects of wrong diet take years to become apparent. I was told at diagnosis that diabetes was progressive - so when complications come, & medication increases, & you go on insulin, you haven't failed - it's the nature of the disease.

I suggested a helpful local initiative would be to survey group members & assess the level of control - how good control is achieved, etc. If I can organise within Diabetes Voices, it will be DUK initiative :!: :D :!:
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Neil Walters said:
Take it to an extreme - why not just shoot them and be done with it!
Click to expand...

The new NHS policy of Zero Tolerance or a new government scheme to reduce waiting lists?
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

hornplayer said:
... is told by their doctor "you have this (fat lazy porker disease that you've totally brought on yourself), take these tablets.
Click to expand...

I think the proper term is 'great big fat hairy ass*d northern basta*d'.

obelix2.gif


The problem with doctors is that they learned too many greco roman terms, think they are Caesar and see the patients as Barbarians.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman said:
hornplayer said:
... is told by their doctor "you have this (fat lazy porker disease that you've totally brought on yourself), take these tablets.
Click to expand...

I think the proper term is 'great big fat hairy ass*d northern basta*d'.

obelix2.gif


The problem with doctors is that they learned too many greco roman terms, think they are Caesar and see the patients as Barbarians.
Click to expand...

Now Tubby, please don't be wailing
'Cos all of your efforts are failing.
Your friends do not look in YOUR mirror,
And don't want to stand on YOUR scales.
You're naturally sweet, and the nuts that you eat
Make you very attractive to males.

Sweet sugar dumpling

I often heard this on the way home from work in the 70s - takes me back 40 years.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

IanD said:
Sweet sugar dumpling

I often heard this on the way home from work in the 70s - takes me back 40 years.
Click to expand...

This song is my favourite way to tease my wife!

She always says she ought to be from the Caribbean because of the very bright colours that she like to wear, so it's my way of telling her that she can carry it off.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Are we drifting off topic a little - how do we press for better information to the newly diagnosed and better education of our kids when they are young - we have to arrest the tidal wave that is coming for their generation if there is continued fear, ignorance and apathy


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I don't see that we can do much when we have such blatant ignorance in charge of the message.

The recent media activity and comments from the health minister have made me, for one, extremely reluctant to discuss,and there for educate, my condition with any one. If the intention was to make the situation worse and foster ignorance, they have hit a home run in my book.


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Neil Walters said:
Are we drifting off topic a little - how do we press for better information to the newly diagnosed and better education of our kids when they are young - we have to arrest the tidal wave that is coming for their generation if there is continued fear, ignorance and apathy
Click to expand...

It's never been easier for people to get themselves informed and the best you can do for your kids is to show them how to go about it.

It's much easier to seek out the wise man yourself rather than call out for wise men to step forward.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman said:
Neil Walters said:
Are we drifting off topic a little - how do we press for better information to the newly diagnosed and better education of our kids when they are young - we have to arrest the tidal wave that is coming for their generation if there is continued fear, ignorance and apathy
Click to expand...

It's never been easier for people to get themselves informed and the best you can do for your kids is to show them how to go about it.

It's much easier to seek out the wise man yourself rather than call out for wise men to step forward.
Click to expand...

Well said that man!
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

All I can do is say how I feel. I'm not wise, I wish I was. i'm a normal, emotional being. I hope there are people out there who are braver than I am, but I learned on this forum, what happens when you stick your head above the parapet. If we can be that cruel to each other, how can we expect someone outside the group to listen without prejudice ?
. When I decide to run for public office, I'll let you know. ;)


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman said:
I think the proper term is 'great big fat hairy ass*d northern basta*d'.

obelix2.gif


The problem with doctors is that they learned too many greco roman terms, think they are Caesar and see the patients as Barbarians.
Click to expand...
OI I Resemble that remark :twisted: :twisted:
I'm a 'great big fat hairy ass*d scots basta*d'.
AND I'm bearded so barbarian is true BUT the romans needed a wall to hide behind to escape US! :lol: :lol:
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Yorksman you miss my point - I think that my kids know all and more than they need to know about exercising good choices and the consequence of not doing so - I was being figurative when I said how do we teach our kids, not literal.

The point is how do we as a society lobby for our fellow countrymen and their offspring who are less well informed than most people here, to be better informed etc etc? We here can only help to inform those that we know - who deals with everyone else?


Diagnosed type II 1998 2 x 80 mg Gliclazide, 4 x 500mg Metformin and 1 x 100mg Sitagliptin
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

You could make a start on dealing with everyone else simply by attracting general attention.

And you could attract a great deal of both public AND professional attention by demonstrating how the NHS could save lives (and avert misery) in the long term, and save a very great deal of money in both the long term AND the short term, by not wasting money on sometimes unnecessary and always exorbitantly expensive meter-read testing strips.

The requisite demonstration would have to involve communication, of course. And I've been aiming to effect such communication elsewhere on this website with regard to Betachek Visual testing strips.

I recognise a few of the names of the contributors to this thread, and they'll recognise mine. For anyone else, I've been a Type 1 diabetic for 30 years this month, and I expect to have no long-term complications due to the way I control my condition. Particularly crucial to this control are the visually read testing strips mentioned above. And I'm currently the only user of them in the whole of the UK.
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Ok, I give in ! Where can one get these visual strips ?


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Well, you're not 'everyone else'. But never mind.

In theory, you can get the strips from your pharmacist. For the strips are on the UK Drug Tariff. But there is currently no UK distributor.

But you could get some from the German diabetic organisation, Insuliner: http://www.insuliner.de/insublog/wordpr ... tstreifen/

Once you've effected a bank transfer, that German organisation will indeed send the strips to you very quickly.

The meter-read strips are very far from great, anyway. They can tend to inspire overconfidence. I've just used OneTouch Ultra for my last test of the day: the result was 5.8. But I decided to double-check: the result was 4.2. Without that double-check, I would almost certainly have had a serious night-time hypo later tonight. (Due to experience, rather than mere erring on the side of caution, I trust the lower reading.)
 
Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

Soooo, if the strips are so amazing , - and I'm not doubting for a moment that they are, - why are doctors not prescribing them??

PS. I buy my own strips.


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Re: Just a fifth of people with diabetes have condition unde

I'm not too sure why no British doctors, other than my own GP, prescribe Betachek Visual. But it may be the case that they simply don't know about them.

They're not especially amazing. They're much the same as the BM 1-44 strips which first came in shortly after I received my diagnosis 30 years ago.

I remember the specialist at Whipps Cross Hospital in London advising me to cut those BM strips into two. (The initials stand for Boeringer Mannheim - I think that's more-or-less the right spelling.) But I manage to cut each Betachek Visual strip into five. This brings the cost of each test down to around 1/20 of the meter-read sticks. (I might point out for Mr Happy's benefit that, if they read what I've just written, National Diagnostic Products would certainly slash any commission I might be receiving.) Clearly, meter-read sticks cannot be cut with scissors.

I doubt that doctors nowadays would feel comfortable about giving such advice. And I know there's at least one contributor to this website for whom that would be strictly VERBOTEN. For if you're not careful, you might touch the pad onto which the blood-sample goes, and so contaminate the strip - perhaps unwittingly.

Also, because diabetics' control is generally so appallingly bad, I suspect that doctors want an electronic record of their patients' blood-sugar readings. (This, I believe, is a function of what people eat and the way that they eat: see my yesterday's 2.29pm posting under 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say', under the 'little rant at Boots' thread.) And of course you don't get such a record with the visually read strips.
 
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