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Keto and carb addiction

Discussion in 'Ketogenic diet forum' started by jpscloud, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hi @jpscloud

    Coming to this thread late but wanted to add some thoughts. Firstly congratulations on the 5 day OMAD in ketosis, and also kudos for putting this thread up.

    Totally agree with your sentiments about abstinence. Applies to me too. For me it’s not carbs that are the issue, rather certain trigger foods that spark cravings and over-eating. For me they’re high % cocoa chocolate, nuts, nut butters and some savoury snacks. While none of them trouble my BG, they provoke massive over-eating. Trying to manage in moderation doesn’t cut it.

    Good luck as you try to fight this.
     
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  2. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - I guess the reason I am officially LCHF rather than Keto is sometimes, often, I eat too many berries. So Ketosis for me is a weaving in and out state. I would need to go carnivore I expect, to knock the berries/sweet tooth thing on the head. But, I don't get the portion size/overeating fear at all, and, probably because of, I have a very hearty appetite. If I started worrying about that on a daily basis I would go nuts and rail against the gods for the dia-blooming-betes more than I do. Don't want to go there. Better for me to go cold turkey entirely on food every now and then, with periodic fasting, and just eat to satiety all the other times. And have stevia sweetened substitutes and keto/lchf bread substitutes made out of almond flour, in my usual/day to day life. At this stage of my life in any case.

    If we were in a room and were discussing our metabolisms and food choices and ways of eating choices I think it would make more direct sense - as part of our ways of eating choices is to do with our body types and physical activity levels and so on - all things that you can see in face to face life. And for me - part of who I am and what lead to me to diabetes in the first place is a really strong sweet tooth, and I am pretty active. And, I absolutely want carby things when I am stressed in a majorly way (like with a friend dying, or some such thing). The stevia sweetened/baked substitutes are probably for me, a life saver. My joke is - "I have a really strong sweet tooth. And here I am with type two. Who knew?!"
     
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  3. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all, I wish we had a thanks button!

    I really am grateful for the comments and encouragement, it makes all the difference to me.

    So far this week back to attempting keto - while at work I find it not only easier but actually helpful to not eat, so OMAD is turning out to be ideal. Not long ago I found OMAD very difficult because of obsessing about the one meal, but that has changed.

    Maybe keto will seem just as natural if I keep working on it.
     
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  4. Lotties

    Lotties Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Yup, it will :) and it's not an end in itself and can be modified anytime you need to. Nice job!

    I'm eating 2 to 3 times a day as I am water-fasting 3 days a week. Halfway through and my appetite on eating days is very much reduced so OMAD again is arriving naturally.
     
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  5. Thomas the Tank

    Thomas the Tank Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure I would call either Stevia or Monk fruit Sugar 'fake sugars' no more so than say maple syrup is fake sugar. Not fully understanding why a product that stimulates insulin secretion would cause a pancreas which has to work overtime to make insulin to need to work harder instead of helping produce more easier. Can anybody help me reduce my ignorance please.

    and i did find this "

    Unlike stevia, there is no evidence of monk fruit extract or sweeteners being mutagenic. As part of the Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) determination, lab results filed with the FDA report the “powder extract did not exhibit any cytotoxic or mutagenic potential.”
    "With stevia, mutagenic side effects are seen in both lab and animal research." Oh well at least the good old boys at the FDA give sugar a clean bill of health!
     
  6. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Insulin production in Type 2 diabetics is usually in overdrive which theorists say leads to the pancreas "burning out". Stimulation in this case would be unhelpful because it would cause burnout to happen faster.

    Insulin is the fat-making hormone. As Type 2s, whether small or large in size, have a lot of visceral fat, it is desirable to keep insulin levels as low as possible, by not stimulating insulin release.

    This is the purpose of low carb and keto ways of eating - no sweet stuff, less insulin production.

    Some sugar substitutes contain zero or very few carbs, yet are thought to stimulate insulin production, which could negate the work a person does to limit insulin production.
     
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  7. ZedZeeZet

    ZedZeeZet Type 2 · Active Member

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    For what it's worth I did try (for science :)) a spoonful of Erythritol last week to see how much of a glucose rise it would give. In my case absolutely none. Xylitol does though. Interesting video here by Non-diabetics on blood glucose rise with different sweetners.
     
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  8. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My quoted post is about insulin rather than BGL - it is possible insulin to be stimulated when blood glucose levels are not raised.

    Xylitol is only about half the calories of sugar, which may account for your experience, or may not, I don't know!
     
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  9. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Not to mention triggering cravings.
     
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  10. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Things are going quite well in week 2 of OMAD - haven't wavered on that at all, but I succumbed to baked beans (no added sugar, but still way too many carbs) last night. Because of not eating during the day I am still seeing numbers around 0.5 ketones though. Blood sugar is nicely between 4.5 and 6 but I am on three medications for that.

    I'm not craving sugar as much as I thought I would, but I do daydream about it quite a bit. Did better tonight, and feeling very full after quite a small dinner. I'm feeling comfortable on OMAD, but weekends are a bit too much of a challenge yet - I'll moderate as best I can and see where I can get with it.
     
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  11. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Sounds like you’re doing great. I’m the opposite, much easier to OMAD at the weekend when I’m out and about all day.
     
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  12. Lotties

    Lotties Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Superb news!
     
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  13. maltham 2

    maltham 2 Type 2 · Member

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    Keep up the good work.

    Remind yourself occasionally that the downside is so awful it should be avoided. Who wants to lose a limb or eyesight?

    And the upside: cut out the carbs (or most importantly cut any combo of fat and carbs ) and you will find a diet that works, makes you less tired, less hungry between meals and overall feel better.

    Worth trying?
    And don't forget to burn it of - walk if you can, walk faster if poss....
     
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  14. liza_h

    liza_h Prediabetes · Member

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    I'm sure that I was addicted to carbs too. Since giving up carbs and sugar (except for carrots and berries which I restrict) and going towards lots of veg, salad, some fish, an egg each day and a couple of handfuls of nuts/seeds I've stopped the cravings completely. I feel full for longer too. I've not actually achieved ketosis yet - only just started to go this low with carbs and it's too early to see if my hba1c levels have dropped, but my waist size has which is a start! I like intermittent fasting but it seems to raise my BG levels so I'm going to keep going in the hope that the body will adjust eventually. For me very low carb/ pescatarian keto is going to be my future!
     
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  15. VashtiB

    VashtiB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @jpscloud ,

    Thanks for starting this thread- it has been a very helpful read for me.

    I am now doing OMAD on most but not all work days. To date I have been prepreparing my lunches on the weekend- spinach leaves, spring onion, betta and smoked salmon but this week plan not to eat lunch on any of the work days.

    I still use the artificial sweetener- if I drink alcohol it is usually something with a diet drink - I'm not a wine drinker but did love my cocktails when meeting up with friends- certainly not often but I haven't found a way round it and it is impacting my social life and my mental health. I use thinks like diet jelly when I have a real craving for something sweet. Over the last 6 months that has educed a lot. They are useful when we have a function at our house- next weekend we are hosting my mother's 80th and there will be cake and dessert. I plan a dessert made up of diet jelly and keto custard and cream. It makes it a lot easier for me.

    I think it is absolutely an addiction. It is what keeps me 'on the wagon' so to speak. I grieve the loss of carbs -some days more than others but agree- not having them weakens the monster- so I like that analogy

    I am aware of the problems with the gut they can cause- not done enough research on it but @JoKalsbeek has mentioned it in some of her posts- I do need to do more research I guess. For me at the moment it is what I can cope with and I'm not sure I can give them up next- it feels like I'm being punished Anyway I also agree that my current favourite treat a teaspoon of peanut butter can be hard to stop at one but I've basically told myself if I can't stop at one teaspoon then I can't have it at all.

    I liken it in my mind to any addiction- some people can control their addiction- I'm not one of them- one piece of nice chocolate or one lolly would be one too much at at the same time- not enough. I'm all or nothing so nothing it is at the moment.

    Thanks for this thread!
     
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  16. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @VashtiB - on the hop at the moment so will reply properly soon!
     
  17. DJC3

    DJC3 Type 2 · Expert

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    Exactly how I feel about it, and try to control it in the same way. Well said.
    I’m following a DietDoctor keto meal planner at the moment and the meals are so rich and filling that I haven’t felt the need for a sweet treat this week. Have you looked at them? They do have some very quick and simple meal ideas. Quite a few cold plates with deli meats and cheeses, lots of quick things with eggs etc.
     
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  18. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Winner and agree! Carnivory is helping keep me on the straight and narrow!
     
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  19. Wilber123

    Wilber123 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know why I can’t leave carbs alone. I keep to around 130 pr day. Iv tried to eat less but I am constantly hungry with a ache in the middle of my tummy.
    I hate salad. Eats a good amount of veg, all types. I eat cheese all meat and fish. I can’t lose weight. I’m pre diabetic. Am I worrying too much.


    Edited by moderator to merge 2 posts that had got separated
     
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    #39 Wilber123, Jan 18, 2020 at 9:14 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2020
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    That may be your problem.. just enough to keep your glucose topped up and stopping you becoming a fat burner?
    Eating less won't help (unless its less carbs of course) as you'll just trigger all your hunger hormones.
    The trick would be to cut carbs to an absolute minimum and up protein and fats to trigger satiety. Then once you get into fat burning mode your body will fill in from stores what you don't eat because you aren't hungry. A win-win.
     
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