1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Keto and carb addiction

Discussion in 'Ketogenic diet forum' started by jpscloud, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I have for the first time ever completed Monday to Friday in ketosis on OMAD.

    After much reading and navel-gazing and about six months lapsing, I have arrived at the conclusion that a ketogenic diet with fasting will save my life.

    Much like stopping smoking saved my life at the age of 30 when I had chronic bronchitis and was treated with hefty doses of steroids to keep me breathing. I always thought that would be the hardest thing I'd ever have to do, but fast forward 26 years and no - giving up carbs is harder.

    I vividly remember reading a book that defined nicotine addiction as a monster living inside you that could be killed by abstinence, but only abstinence. After the withdrawal symptoms ended, the monster would be dead and could never bother you again, but if you fed it again before it was dead, you'd have to deal with it's tantrums as it demanded regular feeding once more.

    I put that idea firmly in my head and added to it thoughts about how much money was being made out of my misery by the tobacco industry and the government. It worked.

    See where I'm going with this? I've decided I need to identify carbohydrates as my current addiction, with Big Food benefitting from my misery.

    I know it's not a perfect match but it is sufficient to give me new motivation. I realise I am unlikely, given my track record, to abstain completely from carbs, let alone avoid lapsing ever again, so to continue the metaphor my monster will likely never die.

    However I have a chance to put it in a seriously weakened state, where its tantrums should bother me very little. This may be the best I can hope for.

    And this week has proven the analogy to hold up very well. I do not feel tempted by carbs once in ketosis. Don't get me wrong, I'm missing them a lot, but I want salvation more.

    It may be a step too far to expect to be able to manage the weekend without a lapse of some sort and I'm most likely not going to do OMAD. I'm so encouraged by this week though. I hope anyone feeling as despairing as I did/do who may be reading this will also be encouraged in some small way.
     
    • Winner Winner x 13
    • Like Like x 3
    #1 jpscloud, Jan 10, 2020 at 1:50 PM
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  2. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Try planning in something that feels naughty but actually is ok.

    Fat head pizza. A curry and home made naan? A fancy looking keto dessert? A really nice quality steak with mushroom garlic cream sauce and some of that tenderstem broccoli . A small bar of the highest % chocolate you can eat. Etc etc. Use nice plates and cutlery, put your water or dry wine in a fancy glass. It’s not just the food but the way it looks and feels. Fill the fridge with cold meats boiled eggs etc to grab in a weak moment.

    OMAD doesn’t have to be everyday. I think keeping your body guessing about what’s coming when is no bad thing so long as it’s nutritious and reasonably regular. ( ie not dropping metabolism)
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  3. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Fantastic advice - I'll incorporate as much of that as I can. I need to be careful with sweet food substitutes as these have unfortunately led to lapses in the past. I hope I will be able to moderate this reaction in the future and use them judiciously to help avoid total lapses.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    14,800
    Likes Received:
    10,667
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Know what you mean.. I'm the same with bread type stuff and have no off switch so just avoid them completely.
    Make sure you have a supply of yummy savoury favourites in case the temptations arrive.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

    Messages:
    7,170
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Recently I have taken to using gelatin along with the sugar free jellies, as they are overly sweet now and although I don't really have trouble with trigger foods, others might find it helps.
    I have flavours used in baking to add to the jelly/gelatin concoctions, and colourings too, if required, so I might go over to using all gelatin once I have worked my way through the stash of jelly sachets.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Thank you everyone for your encouragement!

    I did it - my first ever Friday (including the evening) on keto. I'm totally full and not really craving - maybe I'm on a high and that is helping me to avoid temptation but I'll take it all the same. I have in lots of streaky bacon, cold meats, cucumber, spinach leaves, chicken legs, eggs, full fat greek yoghurt (to which I am adding some MCT powder and a very few raspberries tonight), and a celeriac root. The last may or may not be used at this stage but I think it might stop me going for carbier roots. Oh and a tub of chicken livers I'm planning to saute tomorrow! That lot isn't all for the weekend by the way - most of the meats are going in the freezer.

    This week has involved some food wastage, but I have not used that as an excuse to delay starting a better diet. One of the difficulties I face is not having time to batch cook at weekends, and very little time to prepare food during the week either. I'm just about managing to throw together very nice meals though. Tonight's meal was chicken leg with crispy streaky bacon, coleslaw and cucumber slices in apple cyder vinegar and a good quality olive oil. I'm absolutely full and cravings are not an issue so far.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. lindijanice

    lindijanice Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    439
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hey @jpscloud, job well done! If you find you don't have lots of time to batch cook, when you do cook, like your chicken leg dinner, make enough for four servings, keep another meal out for the next day or two and freeze the other two. It's surprising how quickly you can have a lovely selection in your freezer for nights you don't have the energy to cook, or just don't want to! If you have a crock pot, even easier to batch cook, make soups, omelets and so on! There are wonderful recipes online that can help and will perhaps encourage new tastes to develop as well! Cheers/L
     
    • Like Like x 3
  8. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,224
    Likes Received:
    1,680
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I rarely spend more than 30 mins preparing a meal. Often much less. Frozen stuff helps prevent waste and speed prep although I’m a little selective which bits I’m willing to accept frozen not fresh. Learning how to use knives - in my own fashion - has saved me a lot of time. I slice 3 carrots at a time for example . I wash rather than peel a lot of veg (fibre in the skins) And I make massive quantities when I can and freeze it whenever my horde leave enough
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    11,388
    Likes Received:
    6,665
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Huge well done, @jpscloud . Hold those thoughts. Whatever works for you is fine.

    Spending a lot of time prepping and cooking food is a bind. I have to declare here that I am this household's sous chef, so I end up doing the prep and clearing away, whilst my OH does his magic in the middle. To be fair, I also make a pretty good fist at devouring the food too, but I digress.

    We have a couple of great time saving gadgets. We have an Instant Pot, which is an electric multicooker (other brands are very available too), which allows for a lot of dump and run cooking. We also have an airfrier that does the most fabulous chicken (pork, beef, crispy veg) you can imagine - fast.

    With the Instant Pot, when I'm in the cooking hot seat, I'll load it with the food when I think of it, and set it going - maybe hours before we're eating, but it has a keep warm function (at a food safe temperature), meaning we can eat very quickly, when we either feel like like it, or when hunger overcomes us.

    You can even cook from frozen - chicken, casseroles etc. Not joints though. So, it can be a real life saver if one forgets to take something out of the freezer.

    It can reheat from frozen. We've had some great (and, I might add, less great) brown brick surprise dinners!

    The other thing I have done is to prepare meals and frozen them in their raw state. That might be marinating chicken, pork (or whatever), then freezing them I need that state. Boy, that's good. I also sometimes will do spice mixes, for curries, or whatever, and make double, the remainder of which I then vacuum seal for another time.

    I'm not trying to flog you any of these things, but there are some great ideas out there, and some fab ideas on YouTube. There are more and more LC and Keto eaters out there to help us out when we need a bit of help or a nudge to deliciousness.

    I know this is hard for you, but one day a time a time seems like a decent plan, and to be stringing those days together is very encouraging.

    Keep going.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  10. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Yes - I absolutely see it as helpful to see the draw towards sweet things, and carby comfort food in the light of addiction.

    I personally see low-carb/zero carb substitution as being hugely helpful - and agree with @Resurgam on the wonders of fake-sugared jellies, even with the sulftites and colours. if you were once like me and ate packets of lollies, no end of desserts, cakes, muffins, sugary drinks - a weightwatchers lime jelly is a soothing dessert-treat that goes a long way (and over four or five days - a 0.4g of carb consumption in total). I eat mine with a couple of blueberries and cream so add another 10 g of carbs over the five days? (within cooee?) 2.2 g of carbs a day? (I am not a confident mathematician :).)

    I have experimented with fake sugars - and xylitol, ethryitol in small amounts - and absolutely stevia suits my digestion and my BG meter readings. My gut biome functions well enough with these, I would say. (I understand the arguments against such sweeteners, re gut biome health, and re cold turkey vs not - but I need substitutes I also say, as a sugar/carb addict.)

    Ice cream, my nemesis, I did 'cold turkey' on, on diagnosis 5 and a half years ago, of course, for a few years, until I forked out heaps of dough for an ice cream maker, being inspired by Dr Jay Wortman, a North American first nation doc and blogger/doc maker with type 2, who makes his own chocolate ice cream regularly with his fake sugars/sweeteners of choice. (His type 2 is in remission/resolved - whatever you want to call it.) For the last 2 summers I put the energy and cream and coconut milk, heaps of eggs, my fave stevia crystals, and low-carb/zero carb flavourings into batches of lchf/seriously Keto homemade icecream. It certainly deals with all the factory-made ice cream around me acting as a tormenting lure! It helps that I know all the stevia sweetened treaty 'stuff' I am good with. (Will I work on making my own additive-free jelly one day? Sigh - I guess I will!)

    I have also made from scratch my own fermented fizzies substitute for commerical no-sugar sodas, which were wonderful tasting tonics - but the work involved in that was HUGE - too huge.


    Do I sound like an addict? On substitutes? I would say yes!
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Thomas the Tank

    Thomas the Tank Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Have you tried Monk Fruit Sugar (the pure form not cut with ethryitol), It cost a fortune but is so sweet a light dusting is enough to give a very sweet taste and it is a potent anti-oxidant as a great bonus.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,404
    Likes Received:
    1,636
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Many thanks for the tip @Thomas the Tank. If I do another experimentation with sweeteners, and I run out of my present faves, I might give it a bash.

    Stevia has the benefit here in New Zealand of growing rather well (it's a native of south america I believe - same lattitude etc) so we are familiar with it, I have even grown it myself it more enthusiastic times. And it is a tried and truly for me, and it took me ages to find a really good relativeluy undoctored granulated stevia product - so I am not too keen on going thru that again with a new fake sugar! But all tips are good.

    I did give it a good look - and found this in 'healthline' as an additional possible con for me who is dropping tons of insulin out at a drop of a carb/hat -

    "Mogrosides may stimulate insulin secretion. This may not be helpful for people whose pancreas is already overworking to make insulin."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Thanks @DCUKMod - I recently invested in a ninja foodie, just getting used to it now and it is very good, so I really get what you're saying there. I need to get to grips with the pressure cooking function.

    The problem really is that time is so limited due to full time work with an hour each way commute and caring for my elderly mum (who thankfully moved to a house just around the corner a couple of years ago) - I literally need to take something out of the fridge or freezer and throw it in. Your tip about the prepared frozen raw stuff is very helpful, it hadn't occurred to me to do that. Might be better than reheated cooked food which I find often isn't as good after freezing.
     
  14. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    11,388
    Likes Received:
    6,665
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Oh, boy. I see what you mean about tight for time!

    Honestly, if you can find the time to do a bit of prep, and build a ready meal, or even just the spice packs, it makes it s o much easier, but that said, you can always load a chicken leg in from frozen, and it'll be done in around 12 minutes. It'll take a little longer to come to pressure, due to being frozen. You can then finish the skin in the over, or probably your crisper lid?

    Sorry, I'm not familiar with the Ninja.

    If you're looking for help with the gadget, there are likely groups on the demonous Facebook. I have joined a couple for the IP.

    As a matter of interest, does the Ninja have a non-stick inner pot, or stainless?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    The ninja foodie is a one pot cooker, and I'm good for lots of excellent you tube videos on it - just very little time to look at them!

    I'm fighting not just the clock but fatigue and stress, although both of those are much improved in the absence of carbohydrates, when I manage it! I cope well most of the time.

    The inner pot is non-stick, and it has a crisping basket too. I find it easy to use.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  16. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    11,388
    Likes Received:
    6,665
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Do you have some really simple, go-to things you can dump,and go? There's a dump,and go Facebook group out there, but it's the time thing again.

    Is your commute by bus/train, or are you driving yourself?

    I know for one job I had (it had been an internal promotion), one of my commutes was about 4 hours. They were killer days, potentially literally, so needless to say I bit the persons hand off when I was head-hunted internally for something I loved.

    Thankfully these days, when working, I work mainly work from home.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Yes this is an interesting subject - whether or not sweet substitutes "feed the monster". For me the jury is still out, so for now I'm avoiding them as much as possible, and will maybe use them to get over serious moments of weakness rather than joyfully embrace them.

    They do also tend to distract me from the real business of real food nutitional ketosis and have in the past set off lapses, although those do happen regardless!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,531
    Likes Received:
    6,727
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I find dessert / cake / sweet substitutes problematic. I like them but they get my interest (wouldn't call it a craving) for sweet things going again. Same with bread substitutes. Actually, ESPECIALLY with bread substitutes - and that CAN be a craving.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. jpscloud

    jpscloud Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    833
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I drive, and fortunately enjoy it.
     
  20. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    11,388
    Likes Received:
    6,665
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I enjoy driving, but the A14 challenged that. I did used to enjoy my train commutes into the City though, and used to catch up on all sorts when the train was taking the strain.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook