Keto diet not for me

I did not get UTI’s or kidney problems and can’t comment on that aspect of your situation as I have no experience - sounds like there is an underlying condition there that you’re managing alongside the diabetes, so you’ll need to listen to medical advice around that.

Some of the other symptoms could be due to the ‘keto flu’ - i.e withdrawal from sugar and carbs. I most certainly did experience that and it took a bit of stickability to get through it.

Could well be that those would ease if you reduced carbs more gradually, but with caution given the complicating factors in your case.

Winnie-the-Pooh said:

Keto diet lowers my blood sugar from 153 to 71 ( diabetic 2 , no insulin ).

That is good but


After 10 days of keto , I have a UTI , my kidney hurts , constant nausea, blood sugar drops to 60 , dizzy , confused , shaking , shivering , blurred vision and confusion.

So this evening, my endocrinologist doctor asked me to loosen up and my nephrologist doctor asked me to make sure I get some sugar via fruits and some cabs every day .

I love the keto good effects : low blood sugar , acne is gone , skin feels better but I cannot handle UTIs ( already have been to emergency twice due to kidney infection). So UTIs can kill me and my blood sugar constantly hovers on dangerously low values .


Anyone had this reaction to keto diet ? If so , how you find a balance .

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Keto didn't give me four UTI's in half a year... That was my age. (Once crossing the 40-something threshold, hormones change,so the lining gets thinner and we're more prone to infections in that particular area). The bacteria feed on the sugars in your urine, so keto should help with those infections, not make 'em worse... So this is a little weird. I know I would've needed antibiotics if I'd had higher bloodsugars, but now it was a matter of making my urine more acidic (D-Mannose/cranberry supplements and apple cider vinegar), drinking lots to flush the bacteria out, and they were gone in 24 hours. BUT, that was what was the case for me eh... If your kidneys are sore, there's a possibility the infection travelled up already, again. In any case, I hope you're getting proper treatment for the UTI's, because yeah... They can indeed turn very nasty/deadly. I don't think it's anything to do with keto, more likely peri-menopause, but that's neither here nor there: The UTI's here now and I hope you'll feel better soon. Especially with the holidays coming up, I've got my fingers crossed this'll get resolved right quick! Good luck, and a speedy recovery!
Jo

PS: You could be a little dehydrated due to keto-flu. Was about to post when i realised you'd only been at it for 10 days... When you switch to a ketogenic diet your body needs a little time to adjust, and it sheds a lot of water in one go. Try drinking some bone broth or coconut milk to get your electrolytes back up. You do whatever diet you want to, I'm not going to shove keto down your throat, but if you're feeling off (headaches, muscle and joint pain as well), that might be a quick fix while you figure out what diet you do feel a lot more healthy/balanced with. HUGS!

Winnie-the-Pooh said:

Keto diet lowers my blood sugar from 153 to 71 ( diabetic 2 , no insulin ).

That is good but


After 10 days of keto , I have a UTI , my kidney hurts , constant nausea, blood sugar drops to 60 , dizzy , confused , shaking , shivering , blurred vision and confusion.

So this evening, my endocrinologist doctor asked me to loosen up and my nephrologist doctor asked me to make sure I get some sugar via fruits and some cabs every day .

I love the keto good effects : low blood sugar , acne is gone , skin feels better but I cannot handle UTIs ( already have been to emergency twice due to kidney infection). So UTIs can kill me and my blood sugar constantly hovers on dangerously low values .


Anyone had this reaction to keto diet ? If so , how you find a balance .

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Were you taking any medication along with your diet?

Indeed sounds like the keto flu, one needs more sodium when doing a keto way of eating, also when starting off magnesium citrate is often helpful as well. It's all about electrolytes and keeping them balanced when starting out.

Have you had a pathology test to identify the UTI bacteria?

A good treatment if it's an E coli infection is D-mannose. But only works for E coli. However, since E coli makes up about 45% of bladder infections it's worth trying anyway, and it's cheap. GP's won't know about it and can be hard to get, we got some from online supplement store. There is scientific evidence for it, but an old treatment so no money to be made for big pharma.

Diabetes medication which causes the urine to be sweet can give the bugs an added source of fuel and makes UTIs more common and nastier, but eating a low carb diet actually reduces the probability of the urine containing glucose - because there isn't a lot in the blood.
It is unfortunate that all the advice given by Dr Atkins seems to be disregarded - you might find a copy of his New Diet Revolution would help a lot in managing the low carb way of eating, particularly the advice to have another 5gm of carbs added to meals, he suggests a side salad, if you have those symptoms.I have a 2003 edition, which was possibly the last one he was actually involved with.
As you have a glucose meter you could easily adjust your glucose levels up to where you feel the benefits of normal numbers.
I suspect that the term 'keto' is often used for a 'magic formula' type of diet, not adjusted to the requirements of the individual and without any warnings about what to do if it goes awry.

Winnie-the-Pooh said:

Thanks ! Your support means a lot to me <3
I think I might have been super hard on myself . The morning after my sudden diagnosis ( out of no where and terrible shock ), I started a strict keto diet and exercise. And then a week later , I went on metformin ( high dose for my Moderately high BG) . So my poor body and fragile kidney had to cope with everything at once .

I think going easy and remove carbs slowly might help . I’m at a loss .

I was born very small (1.5 kg at birth ). As a result , I’m very fragile and often show strong reaction to every medicine or change in my body chemistry. I think problem with doctors is that they don’t tune diet and medications to a patients body condition on case by case basis . They just follow a blind protocol.

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Although I went keto for a while, I found it was not for me either. I now low carb but not so low that I am constantly in keto. My good control of bgl levek, and combined with some fasting means that I can slip into keto painlessly, and on the few occasions when I start to hypo, I find being fat adapted (through the keto) helps me to recover by myself without getting the brain fog. So I find that hovering just above my kero level is comfortable, and safe, and I can be quite relaxed about it.

I doubt the UTI is due to keto, and agree that UTI feeds on sugar in the pee, Metformin is not associated with Uti either, and I have been on max dose for many years.

I am just starting my 5th year of LCHF diet, and my sugars are well behaved. I could not go back to the standard diet again without a major increase in medication. Once your body gets used to low carb then it becomes second nature. After a while I discovered that my insulin resistance improved, and I am able to introduce some more naughty foods without suffering a major penalty, For instance, a sticky pastry in the cafe is no longer off the menu as I proved a week or so ago, and I was surprised that it barely registered. Not to be repreated on a regular basis of course but an interesting experimnt nontheless.

You have seen the benefit of a keto diet, so maybe you just need to back it up a bit and just Low Carb.

People who have problems with recurrent UTIs and/or interstitial cystitis might find the following webinar useful - covers a lot about the effects of dietary oxalates on kidney/bladder health:


However, it sounds like dehydration and electrolyte issues from a newly adopted keto diet definitely were a factor.

Winnie-the-Pooh said:

Thanks ! Your support means a lot to me <3
I think I might have been super hard on myself . The morning after my sudden diagnosis ( out of no where and terrible shock ), I started a strict keto diet and exercise. And then a week later , I went on metformin ( high dose for my Moderately high BG) . So my poor body and fragile kidney had to cope with everything at once .

I think going easy and remove carbs slowly might help . I’m at a loss .

I was born very small (1.5 kg at birth ). As a result , I’m very fragile and often show strong reaction to every medicine or change in my body chemistry. I think problem with doctors is that they don’t tune diet and medications to a patients body condition on case by case basis . They just follow a blind protocol.

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Hello again,

Sore kidneys after metformin use? That could be a side effect of the met rather than the keto. ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29435189 ) . Just take it slow and don't throw absolutely everything and the kitchen sink at the diabetes right now. Try one thing at a time and see how the rest of your body responds to it. If not too good, try something else. (Though for me, keto flu is worth riding out, even if it does take 2 weeks sometimes. Its entirely up to you whether you dive in or go slow, whatever works for you!) It's hard to weed out causes for things when there's a bunch of them going on at the same time, and you don't have to have perfect blood sugars in a week's time. Give yourself and your body a moment to adjust and see what works for you specifically. No need to be hard on yourself: your body's already been tough on you, you don't need to add to it.

Cut yourself some slack and take stock of how you want to approach this. Make a plan, go from there.
*HUGS*
Jo

The rules which Dr Atkins set out for the Induction period, such as drinking six glasses of water a day are both sensible and what he worked out from seeing a lot of patients - I find the term 'KETO' can be very vague about safeguards and advice.

Winnie-the-Pooh said:

Also advised against too much or saturated fat , since it causes insulin resistance

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Can’t comment on the appropriate diet with kidney problems, but I’d be very interested indeed in any evidence the nutritionist has given you for that. I know of nothing that would support the view that fat causes insulin resistance. Did they provide you with any information?

Winnie-the-Pooh said:

There are lots of research papers if you search in an academic database .

For example look at this one :

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&q=fat+and+insulin+resistance&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=#p=y1p2g8sgX68J


There is lots on mice ( fat induced insulin resistance) and also humans . Look at a more recent one :

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2018&q=high+fat+insulin+resistance&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=#p=n6qVzn6YuRIJ


I suggest you to look at meta analysis. They are more statistically reliable .


Also look at the papers cited at the end of this article ( it itself not peer reviewed but the citations are )

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/insulin-resistance-a-vicious-circle-of-excess-fat/

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I wonder if they are distinguishing between pathological and physiological (often called adaptive) insulin resistance in the studies quoted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2903931/
"The effects on glucose homeostasis, however, are rapidly reversible upon resumption of a high-carbohydrate diet. Finally, despite the effects of a KD on peripheral insulin and glucose tolerance, responsivity to the anorectic effects of central insulin is enhanced. The results of these studies underscore the necessity to fully examine how dietary macronutrient manipulation affects multiple metabolic parameters to identify potential consequences."
A good reference, but older & not dealing with adaptive, reversible IR, detailing many mechanisms for IR is here. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1204764/

My triglycerides have not risen since moving to a high fat diet (70% animal fat which is not even 50% saturated containing many fats including much mono-unsaturated) possibly since I still consume between 20g and 40g carbs in the form of green veg in order to stay metabolically flexible. I am planning to increase carbs to 75g after weight loss goal as per Wolfgang Lutz's 'Life without bread'. Plans can change... if my triglycerides rise for instance, I will re-evaluate.