LC/HF Diet Not Working For Me

[Sirzy]

Hi everyone,

I'm diet controlled and have been following a LC/HF diet since I was diagnosed around 18 months ago. It's been controlling my bg brilliantly, my last HbA1c was 5.1, and both myself and my diabetes consultant are pleased with that. BUT, I thought I'd ask for a lipid profile during my last appointment, just to see how it was doing since I switched to a LC/HF diet, and after reading so many posts on here about people who are able to eat a lot of fat and still have healthy lipid levels, I wasn't expecting a total value of 5.8, and was quite surprised that it was so high (I wasn't given a breakdown of HDL to LDL, but was told that the total value should be around 4.5 for a diabetic. I'm now following a low fat diet (still low carbing of course), and hoping to avoid the dreaded statins!!

Has anyone else found that high fat doesn't work for them? I'm MIDD, so I'm wondering if this may have something to do with it.

Cheers, Sarah

 

[Superchip]

Sirzy Hi I'm 18 years post heart transplant and have managed to get my total cholesterol up to 7.2%, this really ticks off my consultant at Papworth, BUT I am much happier at this level, I just do not believe all the high cholesterol nonsense out there.
I have refused statins for all but 2 years in that time, only took them and suffered the dreadful side effects through ignorance.
5.8 is not high, if you are aged over 50 it is a bit low, in my opinion. What is MIDD ?, sorry for my ignorance...

ATB

Superchip

 

[Sid Bonkers]

5.8 is not high, if you are aged over 50 it is a bit low, in my opinion. What is MIDD ?, sorry for my ignorance...

Of course in most peoples opinions 5.8 is quite high and if mine were that high I would definitely try to reduce it.



Nigel (Noblehead) has posted a useful link several times in the past about cholesterol and how to lower it, hopefully he will see this thread and add the link again :thumbup: (it may have been the British Heart Foundation - but I'm not sure)

 

[Sirzy]

Hi Superchip,

That's quite brave to let your cholesterol get to 7.8! Do you know your HDL to LDL ratio, and you triglyceride levels? My total cholesterol levels were 5.1 pre-diagnosis which is just on the border of healthy so I gather from my GP (I'm 38 btw). Have you had any heart or circulatory problems apart from your transplant?

MIDD is Mitochondrially Inherited Diabetes and Deafness. It's not very well know, but it basically causes diabetes, deafness and potentially lots of other problems too

I really don't want to take statins as I hear they can cause muscle pain and tiredness and I already have this as part of my MIDD, so I really don't need anymore of it just now, I've already spent the last three days in bed with terrible fatigue and leg pain.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

What is MIDD ?, sorry for my ignorance...

I had to look this one up too Superchip MIDD = Maternally Inherited Diabetes and Deafness

 

[Sid Bonkers]

MIDD is Mitochondrially Inherited Diabetes and Deafness. It's not very well know, but it basically causes diabetes, deafness and potentially lots of other problems too

Oops you beat me to it Sirzy

 

[Sirzy]

Hi Sid,

That link would be useful, although I think I'm doing most things right just now. I've cut out the obvious culprits such as cheese, dark choc and cream, and have switched to spray oil for cooking and 0% fat yogurt. I know I need to do a bit more exercise too, which is hard when feeling tired a lot of the time, but my GP is pretty firm about the statins if my cholesterol doesn't improve by March :roll:

Just out of interest, do you follow a low fat or high fat diet yourself, and what sort of cholesterol readings do you have (if that's not too nosey!)

 

[Sirzy]

Yeah, MIDD isn't very well known at all, not even amongst diabetic specialists. Will make for 'interesting' treatment for me in the future I imagine!

 

[Sid Bonkers]

My diet is fairly low carb but I have not increased the amount of fats I eat, I was obese at diagnosis so I needed to loose weight and whenever I ate cheese it just made my weight loss stall so I just eat small amounts occasionally now and rarely eat cream but then I have never eaten much fat as I have never liked it very much always preferring leaner cuts of meat, my weight was caused purely by overeating, it was not unusual for me to eat something like two sandwiches, two bags of crisps and a pastry or two for lunch every day, I would also eat two or three choc bars a day as well as other snacks.

So although losing weight wasnt easy, all I had to do was stop eating so much, sounds easy but in reality overindulgence had been a lifestyle for me but I was so scared by my diabetes diagnosis that I new I had to lose weight. I was 18.5 stone at diagnosis and lost around 4 stones in the first 7 or 8 months and now weigh in at 13.5 stone so a total loss of 5 stone (70lb's). I did try to walk between half a mile and a mile a day at diagnosis and for the fist year or so but my arthritis is so bad now that for the last 2 years at least I have not been able to do any exercise at all other than the work I do around the house and walking round Tescos supported by a trolley :roll: needs must as they say.

So my weight loss came without much exercise at all really, just a lot less food :lol: And I have found that now I have got used to eating less food and of course as I have lost weight I need fewer calories to keep me going so again I have never needed to add more calories in the form of fat to my diet. To me it seemed counter productive to reduce the cals I ate by eating fewer carbs and then add more cals in the form of fat when all I needed to do to lose weight and keep it off was to reduce the overall amount of food I ate and especially the carbs.


As for cholesterol I guess I'm lucky that I have never had a high cholesterol reading and since diagnosis it has been between 3.8 and 4.2 in total and my last test showed total cholesterol of 3.9 and trigs of .5

I just dont know about statins though, having read a lot of stuff I am none the wiser really but as I have never been offered one it is not something I have had to face, many people use them quite happily and many seem to have side effects. I have read that the Benecol (is that how its spelt) drinks seem to work in reducing cholesterol in many people but I have no personal experience of it.

 

[Superchip]

Thanks Sid, but 7.2 works for me.

And in answer to Sirzy, I am not brave, possibly mad, but I tend to listen to my body and occaionally to my heart consultant at Papworth. He originally suggested that to reach 13 years post transplant was indeed an achievement, SO 18.5 years so far seems OK to me ! I do trully feel that all this cholesterol nonsense is just out there to sell more c**p for the idiot public to swallow, along with the pharmceutical dogs feeding at the trough of public fear, heavily supported by the so-called medical profession in the back pockets of the pharmadogs.

All IMHO and the best possible taste...

Happy New Year

Superchip

 

[Sirzy]

Well done on your weight loss Sid, I'm sorry to hear you're not able to exercise as much as you'd like to, but it sounds like you must be doing something right with your diet if you have such low cholesterol My MIDD tends to make me slim, on top of this, when I started low carbing I lost a bit of weight, and ended up being underweight, hence the replacing of lost carb calories with fat, but this obviously doesn't work for me without the increase in my cholesterol. Hopefully, I'll keep the weight I've gained on now I'm going low fat. I've had a look at Benecol, but it has a few ingredients that would irritate my bladder, so that's not an option. To be honest, I think cutting right down on the fat should be enough (fingers crossed), because I was eating a fair bit of it! :shock:

 

[SamJB]

I personally wouldn't be too worried with that cholesterol level. If you take a look at this link (from the World Heath Organization), it tells you that the minimum mortality rate occurs at a total cholesterol between 5.2 and 5.7 (I converted the units in the graph from mg/dl to mmol/l):

http://freetheanimal.com/images/2009/09 ... tality.gif

The following graph is one of the large studies that doctors base their cholesterol range on. The cholesterol level that you gave (5.7 mmol/l) is 224 mg/dl. Doctors will tell you that at this level your chances of suffering from cardiovascular disease is about 1.1 times that of the recommended level of around 4.5 (175 on the graph). This is true, but it also means that the mortality rate increases by 7 per 10,000. This means that if a population of 10,000 increased their cholesterol from 4.5 to 5.7, 7 more people will die per year. I personally don't consider this to be significant, but I expect that some people will.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=e...35&start=24&ndsp=32&ved=1t:429,r:24,s:0,i:162

I'm in a similar situation, my HbA1c is 6.5% (I'm T1) and total cholesterol is 6. I will strive to bring my cholesterol down to appease my doctors, but I'm not worried. If I can't get it down I'll take statins to decrease it as I'm equally concerned about going blind, having limb amputations, kidney failure, strokes etc, which will surely come if my HbA1c creeps up.

As a scientist, I know that as there is a lot of evidence both for and against the cholesterol-heart disease idea that neither side completely convinces me. As mentioned I'll take statins, continue my healthy lifestyle and good diabetes control.

 

[noblehead]

This may be the link that Sid is referring to earlier, it's from The British Heart Foundation and if you type the word Cholesterol in the BHF search engine you will find all sorts of useful information regarding cholesterol and heart disease:

http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/cond ... terol.aspx


Next time you are due to have your bloods taken Sirzy you should ask for a fasting cholesterol check so you can get a full lipid breakdown, the target levels for someone with diabetes are as follows:

Your total cholesterol level should be below 4.0mmol/l.

LDL levels should be less than 2.0mmol/l.

HDL levels should be 1.0mmol/l or above in men and 1.2mmol/l or above in women.

Triglyceride levels should be 1.7mmol/l or less.


I don't wish to comment on whether you should be concerned about your total cholesterol figure as I'm not medically qualified to do so, what I do know is that people with diabetes have a heightened risk of dying from a heart attack or stroke and it is for this reason that I follow the recommended guidelines for cholesterol and blood pressure.

Often we are too focused on achieving good bg control whilst taking our eyes off the other things that can be detrimental to our health, I believe that maintaining good bg, bp and cholesterol levels whilst eating a health diet and to remain active gives us the best possible chances of leading a long and healthy life, it may be that you could still follow a LCHF diet but by looking at the type of fats you eat and the quantity may help lower your cholesterol levels, either way I wish you the best of luck and good health

 

[Sirzy]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think, as I'm at an increased risk of heart problems and strokes, even more so than normal diabetics because I'm a MIDD diabetic, I'll be trying to reduce my cholesterol and cutting right down on saturated fats.

Thanks for the advice regarding the fasting cholesterol checks noblehead, I'll request this from my GP when I'm next due a blood test. I think you are quite right about becoming too focused on bg and neglecting other problems too. I swapped my sweet tooth for a fat tooth I think, as fat didn't really affect my bg too much. I've had a rude awakening to eating this way now though and won't be neglecting my cholesterol or bp levels in the future!

 

[hanadr]

A total lipid cholesterol number is of no real use. You really need the HDL LDl figures. If most of your total is HDL, then you have NOTHING to fear. The cholesterol thing is pretty contraversial anyway.
Hana

 

[Yorksman]

I'm now following a low fat diet (still low carbing of course), and hoping to avoid the dreaded statins!!

Has anyone else found that high fat doesn't work for them? I'm MIDD, so I'm wondering if this may have something to do with it.

Yes, it is common. Roy Taylor commented on it in a follow up to the diabetes study in Newcastle:

"Given the range of intraorgan fat levels observed in the volunteers both with and without diabetes, it is clear that different individuals exhibit different susceptibility to fat accumulation in the vital organs. This ‘liposusceptibility’ allows simple explanation of the common observation that different individuals develop diabetes when BMI rises above a personal threshold – maybe 35, or maybe 25kg/m2 for example. In additional to the liposusceptibility, individuals of the same BMI may store very different amounts of fat in the vital metabolic organs instead of in the metabolically safe subcutaneous depot."

So, some people can eat more fat than others and get away with it. Diets which are low in carbs but high in fat, work for them. He goes on to say:

"Both genetic and environmental factors may govern these tendencies, but this should not cloud the central point: if a person has type 2 diabetes, he or she has more fat in the liver and pancreas than they can cope with."

 

[Sirzy]

Hanadr,

I did ask if I could have a breakdown of the total into HDL/LDL and triglcerides, but my GP didn't have that info, but she did say that not matter what these values where, the total should not be more than 4.5 for a diabetic.

Yorkman,

That's an interesting bit of info, makes me think of a time a few years back in my local gym when I asked for my body fat to be measured, and it was 30% despite me being slim!! He said I was probably storing fat around my organs, which is a bit worrying, and from what you said, I probably have a fair amount stored within them too!!

I Will have to really watch my fat intake I suppose, why does cheese have to be so tempting?! :crazy:

 

[Yorksman]

I Will have to really watch my fat intake I suppose, why does cheese have to be so tempting?! :crazy:

That's always the way isn't it

I like cheese and was quite used to cutting off a chunk of Wensleydale or Cheshire and snacking on it. However, with a sharp knife, I can cut much thinner slices and have it with a thinner type crispbread with sesame seeds and it taste wonderful, and there's that extra bit of crunch. It's probably a quarter of the amount of cheese that I used to eat.

Also, it's worth checking out the values for cheese and not make assumptions. Camemberts is mostly less in fat, and cals, than most Bries and both are less than many cheddars.

 

[Nik442]

I'm aware of the side-effects surrounding statins but I choose to take them and I've had no effects that I know of so far. Statins are not a cure. At my last review my LDL was 2.5 and HDL was 0.9 but my DN said HDL was still too low and I should try and boost this through my diet e.g. eat more oily fish, Omega 3.

Nik