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Letter to Desmond

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Listlad, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    I think your story / experience epitomises many I have read on the forum. And it was for that very reason that I made a point of visiting my local Self Care Event as a I knew they would be there, manning their stall, peddling their wares. I wanted to see if what many on the forum had said was true. With that objective I had a long conversation with one of the two representatives whilst casting my eye over their leaflets, one of which was a Diabetes .Org leaflet and none of which was a Diabetes.co.uk leaflet.

    Having essentially interviewed the DESMOND rep it became obvious that indeed what you @jjraak have to say and what many other forum members have said, was indeed true. There was not a flicker of any concession on the low carb solution on the DESMOND reps part. It was Eatwell all the way.

    To check to see if the representative I spoke to was unrepresentative I decided to email them and the 2nd post on this thread was the reply.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #21 Listlad, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:04 PM
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  2. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This was my experience in, I think, 2014.

    I have started a thread today about my brother.
     
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  3. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nice point, succinctly put..agree.

    @Listlad
    i hope my odd take on the reply didn't make it seem i was mocking you.

    a brilliant effort indeed. it was the reply and how it was worded, that got my goat.

    "Many thanks for your email regarding the DESMOND Programme. DESMOND has been delivered locally for over 12 years".

    So 12 years and the stats are..?

    " It encourages people to self-manage and individualise their management strategies by encompassing an understanding of the condition and associated risks. "

    so all of that is expected, but by god do NOT check what the foods are doing to you, by using a meter.:rolleyes:

    "cannot advocate specific treatment approaches during the course. It does not dismiss these approaches but recommends that participants seek individualised advice from their own health care professional to ensure that they are choosing an appropriate method of management and to ensure that they receive ongoing monitoring and support."

    So don't tell us about the alternatives, on an educational course for those who know next to nothing, then tell us to go see our HCP, who will simply tell you the meter is wrong, wrong, wrong, and will not offer the alternative choices in the majority of cases, and will in many documented on here, get quite irate and INSIST patients STOP low carbing and increase the carbs.

    Mmh doesn't sound like the idyllic little scenario they seem to be
    portraying.

    Listlad, you done well...i LIKE and RESPECT that.

    Sadly Desmonds is but the tip of the iceberg most of us see at first DX

    for those of us here, we saw the dangers and jumped ship before too much damage was done.

    Yet there are FAR too many others left to sail on blissfully unaware of the coming storm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    #23 jjraak, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:27 PM
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  4. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    I had to read it through twice :D but no, not at all. I knew what you meant.
     
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  5. VashtiB

    VashtiB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I haven't attended a Desmond course but my doctor like many others did not think I should test my levels regularly. She also recommended the equivalent of the Eatwell plate. She also had some other generalised comments like eat an entree rather than a main.... My husband was with me. He has a metabolism which means he struggles to maintain his weight. He eats a lot more junk/unhealthy food than I ever did. He told the doctor that I didn't eat all that much- it's been man y years since II ate a main course- usually if I got one he would finish it I think that because I'm way overweight the doctors think I lie about what I eat or that I'm somehow incompetent to calculate the calories in what I ate. So when someone who is overweight gets diabetes the assumption is that they have been eaten g badly for years. Therefore the way to fix it is to eat healthy Then obviously these overweight people don't follow the guidelines and the diabetes progresses.

    When I went back after three weeks with my levels already going down into good levels I think she was very sceptical that this was because of the LCHF diet. I look forward to my 3 month review. In many ways the LCHF is actually easier than calorie counting as so many things have zero or close to zero carbs so you don't have to weigh them. I've lost approx 9 kilos so far (less than I would like but I haven't been counting calories and never lost weight before without counting calories).

    I guess my point is that the m medical professionals give advice and get the results they expect. I plan to b e someone who doesn't get the results they expect and then challenge them to rethink their advice. If we all do this then hopefully the advice will being to change.

    If I was a doctor I think I would love to have an option to give advice that offered hope rather than disablement and death
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  6. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    One of my colleagues has been told they are pre diabetic and to change their diet to brown rice, wholemeal bread and whole meal pasta rather than white, less cheese, meat etc and low fat everything and to have a retest in 6 months to see how she is doing :banghead::banghead:. I had a chat with her yesterday and persuaded her that their advice was not good and to cut down on carbs - she’s also looking at getting a monitor so hopefully her bs will go down rather than up.
     
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  7. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Just seen this!
    Good on you for writing. Another angle to approach the change that's needed. Going off my own experience it needs lots to change. It seemed to be all about weight loss at mine. I was the only one with a decent t2d suitable lunch. All others has some form of sandwich, biscuits, crisps. And many were attending as their bs were rocketing and under threat of more meds. Diabetic for years. Many complications.

    I joined the ppg to gain entry to my surgery and hopefully insider info ;-) it worked. Got lots of email addresses. When I asked my DN (who incidentally was my mums for years and she has been gone @13 years) how many had reversed their t2d the answer was just me apart from bariatric pts. I still have the email. It was circulated around 3 DNs. That speaks volumes. The DESMOND course delivered in my area is not working. It will be a template course although there may be different versions.
     
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  8. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    Not sure if I can get to the next one of ours but I will try and get that same question in, if I am there in February.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #28 Listlad, Jan 27, 2020 at 10:53 PM
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  9. Honeyend

    Honeyend · Well-Known Member

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    What I do not understand is there are conditions where people can not metabolise protein, it builds up and can damage the eyes and can effect a childs development, so its important that they are on a low protein diet, supplemented by amino acid drinks. No one would ever suggest they should not control the amount of protein they consume, because not eating it is basically the only way to prevent problems. So did the blind spot start when the medical proffession started using insulin, which fixes the 'problem' a bit like antibiotics fixed infections, but in the long term for some its not treating the cause? Is it so hard to understand that too much carb that someone can not process could be a problem, and the simple solution could be to reduce it and see what happans?
    It facinates me because we do need to eat protein, someone I know could only eat 17gms of protein a day in normal food, so was basically blowing the whole allowance on a portion of chips. Why is it so difficult to accept if we do not eat so many carbs we will not become ill?
    If you look at the information on here, https://www.diabetes.org.uk/preventing-type-2-diabetes/can-diabetes-be-prevented , its like their almost frightened to mention the word.
    I intially joined this forum to find out about low carb diets, but it made me question what I had been taught about diabetes and have a greater understanding of why the people I saw were having problems controlling their diabetes. The irony being after my illness I am now Type 3c.
    I am going to see my GP tomorrow, I have had no follow up from the surgery about my diabetes, even though I was originally discharged on insulin, so it will be interesting to see what, if anything I am offered. No one has even bothered to tell me what my HbA1c is, so I could be in for a shock.

    Just back from the GP, so I am getting a full set of bloods and an appointment with the diabetic nurse. The good news is my Hba1c was 48, which not bad considering that the whole of my pancreas was supposed to be dead and I am just controlling my BS with low carb.
     
    • Hug Hug x 3
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    #29 Honeyend, Jan 28, 2020 at 1:00 AM
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  10. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    • Informative Informative x 2
  11. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Comparing this to the XpertHealth position statement makes it clear that all Desmond care about is ticking enough boxes to get CCGs to pay for their courses. There is no possibility of covering different types of diets in enough detail to allow clients to decide for themselfs within the time in the Desmond type2 course, hence they are saying that they will not tell people about lowcarb in a meaningful way.
     
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  12. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    How long did it take for the DN to respond or was it instant?
     
  13. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I know DESMOND is aimed at type 2 but I am currently on a 'carb counting' course for type 1s. I have to say I have been extremely surprised at how much I am enjoying it. There has been NO mention of the eatwell plate and no judgement whatsoever on the individual diets followed by the attendees. We tell them what we eat and they simply come up with tips & strategies as to how to combat what we choose to eat with our insulin. I know it must be different for type 2s as I say but I wonder whether slowly but surely they are beginning to accept that we are all different with different approaches. High carb, low carb, no carb, vegan, carnivore....they haven't batted an eyelid, just said lovely, try this if you are going high or low etc.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Instant
     
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  15. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    Maybe the message is getting through as Dr David Unwin shouts NUMBER 73 from the rooftops....
     
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  16. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I hope so @KK123

    i had a friend on the Daphne course told me how lucky i was getting Desmonds as she learnt SO much..
    and that does seem to be the case for T1 courses..from what i have read on here.

    perhaps it's the eat/inject method, that makes it more important that they deliver correct and qualified information AND make it as current as possible..so they DO get it right,

    where as for T2 it's all about the eating process..THEN insulin :rolleyes:

    where as i don't believe THAT is the case..and nor do many doctors yet the message is the same old..until now.

    so i hope it does and is altering.

    shameful so many have been left with outmoded information for SO long as it is.
    to continue down THAT road WOULD be Criminal KNOWING what they KNOW..
     
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  17. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    i guess all the data crunching of the numbers made things Much easier

    100's v 1 VERY Surprising Success :woot:........:hilarious:
     
  18. Norfolkmell

    Norfolkmell Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My GP told me LCHF at diagnosis, provided test strips and lancets on repeat, and to keep a record of BG before and after eating and to bring it to next appointment. Have never been offered Desmond or any diabetes training but begining to get worried as we are finally moving and I will have to register with new GP as my present GP refuses to move to the coast!
     
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  19. Norfolkmell

    Norfolkmell Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    But he has added to my medical record that I knew how to control my blood sugar and my many medications to deal with multiple conditions were all tested and despite all be contra indicated they work for me. He also added that he would be happy to discuss in more detail with my new practice. And I still couldn't persuade him to move 17 miles!
     
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  20. jjraak

    jjraak Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Kidnap him..:D


    then clone him...:hilarious:
     
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