Low Blood Sugar without problems - anyone?

[diamondnostril]

Hi all,

I am a 38 year old guy, I have been T1 diabetic for 12 years. I just joined the forum because I have this specific question to ask: Does anybody else experience low blood-sugars WITHOUT problems? I frequently have series of days where my blood-sugar is below 3.0 on most of my 4 daily measurements. However, I get no confusion, double-vision, headaches or balance problems. I feel completely normal. Has anybody else had experience of anything like this?

For all of my time as a T1 I have tried to follow an extreme low-carb diet. When I am sticking to the diet, I get generally good blood-sugars. When I have strayed off the diet, sometimes for a few months, my blood-sugars get worse. Currently I am sticking very well to the diet, and had generally good control but with irritating mysterious high measurements every now&then. In an attempt to try to eliminate these odd high measurements (I really could not explain what was causing them), I added a daily magnesium supplement to my diet. Immediately my blood-sugar levels reduced by about 40%, and these odd high measurements have disappeared (at least, I have not any in the 5 weeks since I added the magnesium). Now my sugar-levels are normal, or below normal, all the time.

Has anybody else on a low-carb diet (and/or added magnesium diet) had this experience of low-blood sugars without any problems? I'm reluctant to say that I'm experiencing Hypos but have lost the warning signs - it seems different. If I don't experience ANY noticeable problems then is it still a Hypo?

Below are my readings for Morning/Lunch/Evening/Night for a recent series of days.
2.2, 3.1, 2.5, 4.2
2.7, 2.3, 2.7, 2.0
3.1, 1.8, 5.2, 1.8

Thanks for any Info/Suggestions/Hints/Feedback
Diamond

 

[carandol]

That does sound awfully low! Are you sure your blood monitor isn't reading low? Just a thought.

 

[diamondnostril]

That does sound awfully low! Are you sure your blood monitor isn't reading low? Just a thought.

Hi carandol,

Thanks for your suggestion. I'm as sure as I can be that the monitor is OK. When it first started happening I verified the measurements against another monitor. And of course there are plenty of normal, not low, measurements (using the same monitor). I just used this series of measurements to illustrate the main point.

 

[mo1905]

I've had a few 2.8's and never had any symptoms but not on a regular basis. Speak to your nurse.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Hellbunny]

As bad as I may sound (after all the hard work you are doing) it may be worth running a little higher for a week or two, as its dangerous if you don't get any warning signs. I lost my hypo awareness last year (had a hba1c of 4.1) and I didn't even realise I was low at 1.8 then all of a sudden my adrenaline must of kicked in and I could barely see clearly.

If I'm wrong somebody pull me out those readings are low though, I hope things settle soon!

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[SamJB]

If your levels are that low then you're taking too much insulin. What are your overnight levels like - is there much of change? You've lost your hypo feeling because you are frequently low, your body has got used to it. To regain your hypo symptoms run you levels over 5 for a couple of weeks.

That 1.8 is frighteningly low, close to losing consciousness I'd say. Do you drive? You need to be extra careful as the DVLA could take your license off you if you have a bad hypo.

 

[noblehead]

Awful lot of hypo's there Diamond and the fact you are hypo-unaware at such low levels is worrying. I would suggest you speak with your diabetes team and ask them for advice on lowering your insulin doses to reduce the frequency of hypo's and to restore your hypo awareness, the effects of frequent and prolonged hypo episodes on the brain are unknown and research is ongoing on the possible harm they may have, for this reason I would want to reduce them as far as possible whether or not you feel well at these low levels.

 

[hanadr]

I'm NOT an insulin user, but I am married to a T1 [42 years!] and those readings are pretty close to non-diabetic. If when you get a low reading, the numbers are NOT still falling, you're probably not in danger. If they continue to fall, they need to be stopped. It's therefore worth testing again after half an hour.
Hana

 

[noblehead]

I'm NOT an insulin user, but I am married to a T1 [42 years!] and those readings are pretty close to non-diabetic. If when you get a low reading, the numbers are NOT still falling, you're probably not in danger. If they continue to fall, they need to be stopped. It's therefore worth testing again after half an hour.
Hana

.............. :shock:


With respect Hana those levels are dangerous and there's no way I would wait around to see if the levels continue to fall, anyone with type 1 with such low levels (with the exception of the 4.2 reading) needs to immediately treat the hypo with fast-acting glucose.

 

[iHs]

Hello Diamond

The reason why you are not experiencing any warning of when you are going low with your bg levels, is as Sam has said. Your brain has got used to your low bg. However, what you are doing is silly and so unecessary (IMO). You can be well with diabetes without going to the lengths you are taking. :crazy:

Please for the sake of your well being, aim to get your morning bg levels at 5mmol at least and try to keep bg maintained between 5 and 8mmol. This should be easy for you to achieve with/high protein diet/ low carb diet and will still give you a good hba1c level.

 

[smidge]

Hi Diamond!

As others have said, those levels are too low even if you don't feel ill. Unlike some of the other guys, I don't jump too quickly to correct minor hypos, because I know when I'm in danger of them falling lower and when I'm not, but as soon as they dip under the 3.2 - 3.5 mark, I don't hang about. You need to reduce your insulin to keep your BG at safe levels.

Incidentally, you will lose your driving license if you have lost your hypo awareness. You don't need to have had a bad hypo where intervention is required - loss of hypo awareness = loss of driving license. If you don't tell the DVLA, your diabetes team will and you will lose your license. Get those levels up higher and regain your awareness.

Smidge

 

[diamondnostril]

Hello,

Thanks to all those that responded. Info is appreciated.

I'd like anyone to know that my question remains open. If anybody stumbles across this thread in future, and has had similar experiences of very low blood sugars without any noticeable loss of function, especially in connection with low-carb/added magnesium diet, then please let me know.

Thanks
diamondnostril

 

[donnellysdogs]

Hi Diamond

I really think that your post about low levels and carrying on ok is quite alarming... As it seems to ignore all the facts about how dangerous it is, and you havent identified the need to raise your blood levels up.

You 're brain like iHs states has got used to those levels... And they are dangerously low.

Hypo's ... And that is any level under 4 will impair your judgement whether you are recognising the differences or not. Your reactions will be different to that of normal levels... I can only put it like an alcholic hetting used to alchohol... They think they are ok.. But others still see they have had a drink..

Hypo's are starving your brain of necessary goodness to keep it functioning properly and short term you are putting yourself and others at risk. Longterm.. Who knows what is actually happening in your most major organ. It is recognised that continued hypo's are dangerous.

Please, concentrate in raising your bloods rather than asking if others feel the same. If you drive, you really are outting others at risk, AND you will lose your driving licence.

Running low isnt good.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Try googling 'diabetic hypoglycemia impact factor' and viewing the research results of longterm hypo's ... I cant send links to read, as there are so many to read... None of them are good reading...

Please concentrate on raising your levels...

 

[diamondnostril]

OK, let me try to explain better.

I was a low-carber with decent control. I had annoying, occasional high readings that I wanted to eliminate. So I tinkered. One way that I tinkered was by slightly increasing my Basal, and decreasing my Rapid, just to see the effect. No effect. I upped the Basal a bit more. No effect. And on and on. Significant increase in my Basal dose: no effect on my blood-sugars. Found this very confusing. Did some research that suggested maybe Magnesium would help. (Maybe a magnesium deficiency was inhibiting how much Insulin could be used). Started taking the magnesium; had a dramatic impact. Due to my aforementioned increased Basal dose, my blood-sugars went very low. I slowly adjusted my Basal dose, now it is a bit lower than where it started. Now my blood-sugars are within my target range 90% of the time. They are below my target range 10% of the time. They are above my target range 0% of the time. Annoying high readings eliminated . I continue to tinker to try to hit my target a higher percentage of the time. But I don't want to lower my Insulin dose significantly, because I don't want to throw the baby (90%) out with the bathwater.

Please, I am not a joskin with a death-wish. I am a guy that tries to keep his levels in the normal range. I don't try to keep my levels low, I try to keep them normal. Like thousands of other T1 diabetics, I follow the Dr. Bernstein approach to try to keep my levels as they should be, with the aim of preventing long-term complications.

I have been very interested in the apparent effects of the magnesium supplement. Clearly it enabled my Insulin to work better. My levels went very low. While I was in the process of adjusting my Basal dose, they sometimes were low over a sustained period. Now that I have adjusted my Basal dose, I no longer get these sustained series of lows. I do still get lows. Tinkering continues.

Immediately after I added the magnesium supplement, the nature of these 'lows' was different from any 'low' that I had ever experienced before. I always had warning signs for my Hypos, which were rare. Therefore I cannot believe that I lost my Hypo awareness due to running constantly low. Before I added the magnesium I was not constantly low . . . I was mostly normal with annoying, occasional highs. Immediately after I added the magnesium supplement, these "new-style" lows came without any warning signs, but also without any noticeable loss of function. I was able to go to work, have normal days; no confusion, no headaches, no problems reading/writing. I felt completely normal. Work colleagues, and my girlfriend, made no suggestion that anything was amiss. I am interested in this unusual effect. But I do not keep my levels low to study it. I try to keep my levels normal, and appeal for any info that I can get on the Diabetes forum.

I appreciate the responses and the advice, thank you, but it's not what I'm looking for. My levels are OK. What I'm really interested in, is whether there is something about my diet, perhaps the combination of extreme low-carb+magnesium+whatever, that offers some sort of natural buffer against the unpleasant, dangerous, short-term effects of low blood-sugar. I have read about results of magnesium studies that hint in the direction of magnesium improving brain function, improving brain cells' capacity to adapt new pathways and resist stress. If true, this would fit to my experiences. I would like to hear about anybody with similar experiences to mine, to try to understand better if this could be a genuine thing.

Years ago, I had a Hypo where my level was 2.0 . . . this was a horrible experience and afterwards I felt lucky that I got myself through it. As described above, recently I have had levels of 2.0 and have gone to work and had a nice day. I repeat: I don't shoot for low levels, I shoot for normal levels. But if my blood-sugar does go low, I know which one of these two scenarios I prefer.

IF there is something about a diet/magnesium/something-else combo that enables the brain to function better in the unwanted case of low blood-sugar, I would have thought this is nice information that Insulin users would find useful?

Regards
diamondnostril

(and before any more Posts, I don't have a car :wink

 

[noblehead]

Personally Diamond I would be ditching the Magnesium supplements if they meant I no longer felt the vital warning signs of hypoglycemia, it just takes the once for an hypo to happen where it may put your life in danger.

 

[Finzi]

I do understand completely what you're getting at. But I can understand what others are getting at too. Maybe there is something in it, about magnesium enabling us to tolerate low blood sugar without symptoms. But until that's known for sure, maybe a good compromise would be to slightly reduce your magnesium consumption to see if that will eliminate those rogue low figures without returning you to the occasional highs.

(I wish it would have that effect on me . I've been taking it for two days now and it hasn't changed my sugars at all. )




Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 5 and 6 mmol. 13kg lost so far

 

[vikz2006]

I'm about to start to taking mg supplements so i'll let you know

 

[Thundercat]

Hi! First of all I know nothing about the effects of magnesium on bs. It would be great of it could help with bs control. I am really alarmed and concerned about your lack of hypo symptoms. I understand that it is not your aim to maintain hypo levels but even if your hypos are rare a warning system is important. I hate hypos. I hate the symptoms but I would hate it more to lose them. For me they are essential- a necessary evil. Of magnesium improves brain function etc it is surely impossible for it to enable the brain to function without fuel - glucose. Its a bit like having a car and not realising the fuel gauge is broken. You can be driving along thinking there is fuel in the tank but when the fuel is gone that car is going to stop. You are fortunate that you never dropped that low and I am genuinely happy for you. But to my mind it is too much of a gamble to run so low without symptoms if you have a choice. Not everyone does. Occasional unexplained highs are deeply annoying when you are working hard for good control. They are also something of an inevitability. The risks associated with severe hypo and lomg term hypo are well documented and quite sobering. I know you have made it clear that your experimenting has stabilised your bs and what the true nature of your query is but I am concerned that you are taking a very serious risk with symptom free hypos to avoid the unpleasantness of hypo awareness. I have had diabetic coma from hypos that occured at night without waking me and the after effects and the knowledge that I had actually lost consciousness were far far worse than hypo symptoms. Everyone on this forum wants only the best for each other. Will you please at least consider what has been offered to you. Sorry for droning on for so long but I really am very concerned for you

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[pumppimp]

Hi Diamonnostril,
I won't ramble on as everyone has already pointed out the bg readings that you gave were 16.7% in normal range and 83.3% on the low side and quite low at that! maybe this is why everyone is so concerned.
But back to your main question, maybe better phrased as the effect of magnesium supplements on blood glucose regulation? I've not researched this maybe I'll go and have a proper look at Uni this weekend just sharing some personal experiences. Almost opposite to you instead of going on a high magnesium diet (taking supplements) My husband enrolled on a diet study as he got free shopping paid for by the study and it only involved a few blood tests plus it was a friend of his phd project. I ended up eating the same food (shame for it to go to waste), I noticed that my blood sugars went up by about 40% accross the board. I also found there was a lot of things that were restriced that I loved and I felt rubbish so I went back to buying my own food after 6 weeks. My blood glucose dropped to normal levels again. I'm on a pump but even after tinkering with temp basal settings and bolus ratios I couldn't get my bg to drop to regular levels on that magnesium restricted diet. So maybe there is something in what you are saying. It may be possible that the readings you posted were a blip few days but maybe they were on days where you took a supplement but also had a high magnesium diet at the same time? lowering your bg even lower than usual? I will hoak through some journals and tell you if anything comes up.
Good luck Laura