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Low carb forever?

M

Max243

Member
Messages
23
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I'm currently eating a low carb diet, going to the gym as recently diagnosed as pre diabetes. I feel so much better.
Got such good info from this forum.
Two people I spoke to recently about this said "oh you might not want to do that long term" one person said I might loose muscle mass
Has anyone else heard of this. I'm getting used to eating this way,and although Christmas might be a struggle, I now know I was eating mainly carb meals. Wish I had known about low carb years ago. On researching I think I'm inadvertently on the keto diet
Can I stay low carb long term?
 
It's a question that many of us ask ourselves, and the response from many around you will be often surprisingly negative.

The truth is - who knows? - there just isn't the data to say one way or another, because it's never been tested (sounds bizarre, but every attempt has shied away on the same basis - it's going to be too hard so better not try).

At the same time, you may be feeling (as I am after 10 months) - I'm just feeling better and better, why would this be a bad thing?

From an evolutionary perspective, it's difficult to argue against the idea that historically, and biologically, the human species is highly adapted to survive without carbs, indeed the bulk of our "glucose control" is about generating glucose from other stuff, and our digestive system is incredibly capable of extracting lots of nutrients from protein and fat together; yet most of the advice you will get, talks about the need for a balanced diet, with the majority player being carbs. Despite us being made up mainly of protein and fat.

There really are no perfect right answers, and we are all surprisingly unique in our response to different foods (and if you are tending toward Keto, you may find that your response to some foods will change).

Ultimately, only you will be able to answer that question, but for me, the deeper you go, the more interesting and compelling it gets (I have a laundry list of conditions that are all getting mysteriously better) and the more I want to research...

Specifically on muscle mass - yes, that is often a concern, and rightly so; we don't want to loose muscle, but my experience at least (borne out of using scales that measure this) and the science backs up, that by lowering carbs, you lower insulin over time, and that allows fat to be released for energy consumption - you just do not lose muscle at all.

Generally speaking, your body will prioritise holding on to muscle in most cases, but if insulin is up, it's very difficult to mobilise that fat.

A really good starting point, if you're interested, is Gary Taube's "The case for Keto" - which is much more balanced than the title makes it sound, it's really a result of a journalist struggling with the same question you are for a couple of decades.. at the very least, you get a thorough grounding in the pros and cons (you don't want to get into the Keto flu without some understanding, for example) and the history of our understanding of why Carbs are so influential.
 
We hear this sort of thing all the time. People love to tell us that eating low carb is unsustainable or that animal based protein is bad for us.
They are highly selective about which studies they choose to use to try to back up their claims.

Since Low Carb/ Keto improves so many conditions (even mood) why would anybody change from it, so long as it feels sustainable for them?

The idea that the weight loss during Low Carb is from muscle loss is just ridiculous and stems from the refusal to believe that eating fat can cause insulin to stay low, which in turn allows body fat to be used as energy and reduces the storage of fat from excess calories.
 
Thank you for replies. I wasn't sure if it was dangerous long term (thought I read can cause heart disease)
I do feel great though.
Does anyone still get a brief "moment" when shopping when noticing the cakes and pastries ?(the stuff I used to eat)
I sometimes think of go on put it in the basket . But never do
 
Of course you have heard it can cause heart disease. Even though the Minnesota Coronary Experiment data was suppressed for 40 yrs, and the findings were corrected in 2016 most of us still haven't got the message!

bmj.com/content/353/bmj.1246

Design The MCE (1968-73) is a double blind randomized controlled trial designed to test whether replacement of saturated fat with vegetable oil rich in linoleic acid reduces coronary heart disease and death by lowering serum cholesterol. Recovered MCE unpublished documents and raw data were analyzed according to hypotheses prespecified by original investigators. Further, a systematic review and meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials that lowered serum cholesterol by providing vegetable oil rich in linoleic acid in place of saturated fat without confounding by concomitant interventions was conducted.

Setting One nursing home and six state mental hospitals in Minnesota, United States.

Participants Unpublished documents with completed analyses for the randomized cohort of 9423 women and men aged 20-97; longitudinal data on serum cholesterol for the 2355 participants exposed to the study diets for a year or more; 149 completed autopsy files.

Interventions Serum cholesterol lowering diet that replaced saturated fat with linoleic acid (from corn oil and corn oil polyunsaturated margarine). Control diet was high in saturated fat from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings.

Main outcome measures Death from all causes; association between changes in serum cholesterol and death; and coronary atherosclerosis and myocardial infarcts detected at autopsy.

Results The intervention group had significant reduction in serum cholesterol compared with controls (mean change from baseline −13.8% v −1.0%; P<0.001). Kaplan Meier graphs showed no mortality benefit for the intervention group in the full randomized cohort or for any prespecified subgroup. There was a 22% higher risk of death for each 30 mg/dL (0.78 mmol/L) reduction in serum cholesterol in covariate adjusted Cox regression models (hazard ratio 1.22, 95% confidence interval 1.14 to 1.32; P<0.001). There was no evidence of benefit in the intervention group for coronary atherosclerosis or myocardial infarcts. Systematic review identified five randomized controlled trials for inclusion (n=10 808). In meta-analyses, these cholesterol lowering interventions showed no evidence of benefit on mortality from coronary heart disease (1.13, 0.83 to 1.54) or all cause mortality (1.07, 0.90 to 1.27).

Conclusions Available evidence from randomized controlled trials shows that replacement of saturated fat in the diet with linoleic acid effectively lowers serum cholesterol but does not support the hypothesis that this translates to a lower risk of death from coronary heart disease or all causes. Findings from the Minnesota Coronary Experiment add to growing evidence that incomplete publication has contributed to overestimation of the benefits of replacing saturated fat with vegetable oils rich in linoleic acid.
 
Speaking from a viewpoint of one, I am far better on keto with the odd excursion into very low carb, than I have been in many many years. Thus I found to my surprise that not only is it easy for me to continue this way because the rewards are so great, but I'm actually healthier than I have been for decades. Nothing from the "forbidden" aisles of the supermarket translates into temptation or feeling deprived because I don't want to stop feeling this good.

We are all different. This may or may not be the case for you. However, I do stress that what we think might happen in the way of feeling deprived or longing for foods that will do us damage, for many of us just hasn't.
 
stevensmaxine50 said:
I'm currently eating a low carb diet, going to the gym as recently diagnosed as pre diabetes. I feel so much better.
Got such good info from this forum.
Two people I spoke to recently about this said "oh you might not want to do that long term" one person said I might loose muscle mass
Has anyone else heard of this. I'm getting used to eating this way,and although Christmas might be a struggle, I now know I was eating mainly carb meals. Wish I had known about low carb years ago. On researching I think I'm inadvertently on the keto diet
Can I stay low carb long term?
Click to expand...
Hi. I've been eating at ketosis levels for just short of five years. Results in my sig block below, and I've no intention of stopping. For me blood glucose at normal levels, almost totally symptom-free, and being around 40kg lighter are entirely down to cutting carbs.

I'm also gaining quite a bit of new muscle since restarting exercise two years ago. I don't think that's connected with ~20g carb/day, but I wouldn't have been capable of doing the exercise if I hadn't lost the weight first.

There is acceptance that the ozempic/wegovy treatments over longer periods can lead to loss of muscle mass as well as fat, and muscle is much harder to regain once it's gone. That's why people aren't supposed to stay on it forever. I have not heard of anyone losing muscle mass on low carb/keto of itself - obviously there are other reasons for losing muscle mass.
 
ianf0ster said:
Of course you have heard it can cause heart disease. Even though the Minnesota Coronary Experiment data was suppressed for 40 yrs, and the findings were corrected in 2016 most of us still haven't got the message!

bmj.com/content/353/bmj.1246

Design The MCE (1968-73) is a double blind randomized controlled trial designed to test whether replacement of saturated fat with vegetable oil rich in linoleic acid reduces coronary heart disease and death by lowering serum cholesterol. Recovered MCE unpublished documents and raw data were analyzed according to hypotheses prespecified by original investigators. Further, a systematic review and meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials that lowered serum cholesterol by providing vegetable oil rich in linoleic acid in place of saturated fat without confounding by concomitant interventions was conducted.

Setting One nursing home and six state mental hospitals in Minnesota, United States.

Participants Unpublished documents with completed analyses for the randomized cohort of 9423 women and men aged 20-97; longitudinal data on serum cholesterol for the 2355 participants exposed to the study diets for a year or more; 149 completed autopsy files.

Interventions Serum cholesterol lowering diet that replaced saturated fat with linoleic acid (from corn oil and corn oil polyunsaturated margarine). Control diet was high in saturated fat from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings.

Main outcome measures Death from all causes; association between changes in serum cholesterol and death; and coronary atherosclerosis and myocardial infarcts detected at autopsy.

Results The intervention group had significant reduction in serum cholesterol compared with controls (mean change from baseline −13.8% v −1.0%; P<0.001). Kaplan Meier graphs showed no mortality benefit for the intervention group in the full randomized cohort or for any prespecified subgroup. There was a 22% higher risk of death for each 30 mg/dL (0.78 mmol/L) reduction in serum cholesterol in covariate adjusted Cox regression models (hazard ratio 1.22, 95% confidence interval 1.14 to 1.32; P<0.001). There was no evidence of benefit in the intervention group for coronary atherosclerosis or myocardial infarcts. Systematic review identified five randomized controlled trials for inclusion (n=10 808). In meta-analyses, these cholesterol lowering interventions showed no evidence of benefit on mortality from coronary heart disease (1.13, 0.83 to 1.54) or all cause mortality (1.07, 0.90 to 1.27).

Conclusions Available evidence from randomized controlled trials shows that replacement of saturated fat in the diet with linoleic acid effectively lowers serum cholesterol but does not support the hypothesis that this translates to a lower risk of death from coronary heart disease or all causes. Findings from the Minnesota Coronary Experiment add to growing evidence that incomplete publication has contributed to overestimation of the benefits of replacing saturated fat with vegetable oils rich in linoleic acid.
Click to expand...
Something that appears to have gone totally unreported in the mainstream media - the Journal of the American College of Cardiology, which used to be Low Fat Central, published a paper as long ago as 2019 that finds no evidence for limits on "saturated fat" in the diet.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...tm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=the-arrow-188

Journal of the American College of Cardiology:
•Several foods relatively rich in SFAs, such as whole-fat dairy, dark chocolate, and unprocessed meat, are not associated with increased CVD or diabetes risk.
•There is no robust evidence that current population-wide arbitrary upper limits on saturated fat consumption in the United States will prevent CVD or reduce mortality.
 
I seem to have no ill effects from going low carb and have been since being diagnosed. I have more muscle mass now but I do weights, run and cycle. I have according to my hubby the thighs of Thor!
 
I'm 8 years from diagnosis and feel 20 years younger at least, and can cope with moving knitting machines around much more easily now - I have been able to go on doing the servicing of machines for the local University without spreading out the visits due to fatigue.
 
Thank you for replies . Feel so much healthier
Will stay low carb as I feel better and I didn't even realise I was fatigued before. just thought I was tired. I've lost weight and my mood improved so many benefits
 
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