Low carb or no carb

Jaylee

Oracle
Retired Moderator
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18,214
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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I literally have no idea. A significant portion of people who use this app do low carb but I have been specifically advised against it.

Here’s is my email:

View attachment 42362
I even had a bunch of people on this app discrediting my dietitian and calling her unprofessional because she said ketosis instead of ketoacidosis. In essence both things are the same thing, ketosis is the state of burning fat and producing ketones whilst ketoacidosis is when ketones have become in such a large quantity that it is dangerous


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OK? Well my understanding of the basics, is nutritional Ketosis comes comes from burning fat.

However if there is little or no insulin to work on the blood sugars building up to feed the body.?
Then there will be ketones. Because the body will resort to fat reserves. (Hence drastic tell tale weightless prior to T1 diagnosis.)
The "130 gpd" your dietitian seems to suggest as LC. Is a little lower than "moderate?" But by my reconing wouldn't put some one into showing "nutritional keytosis.."

The big difference in sounding the alarm for DKA with ketones is. The stratospheric out of safe parameter BG levels..

Looking at the image of the message from your dietitian she also doesn't have a grasp on a bolus insulin working profile either?

Sorry to do this, TZ, & frankly, thanks for posting this. But your dietitian? Don't use this stuff on a daily basis.. We do.

"Rebound nocturnal hypo?" What does your sensor graph tell you..?

But I do concur with "one change at a time." A process of elimination...

But thanks for your feedback. It's always good to discuss & share. But let us both be mindful of the OP's personal condition & this topic.. ;):)
 

LaoDan

Well-Known Member
Messages
993
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
The term “new normal “
Do you feel like you have more energy from eating less carbs or zero carbs? I know I ain't eating low enough but I'm going to try my best, I want to feel energised at the moment I'm feeling really slow and tired. I would love low numbers but I'd prefer to feel better as well,
Took a few weeks for me to transition as it was a big lifestyle change for me. Feeling pretty awesome now. Tough it out.
 

TypeZero.

Well-Known Member
Messages
296
OK? Well my understanding of the basics, is nutritional Ketosis comes comes from burning fat.

However if there is little or no insulin to work on the blood sugars building up to feed the body.?
Then there will be ketones. Because the body will resort to fat reserves. (Hence drastic tell tale weightless prior to T1 diagnosis.)
The "130 gpd" your dietitian seems to suggest as LC. Is a little lower than "moderate?" But by my reconing wouldn't put some one into showing "nutritional keytosis.."

The big difference in sounding the alarm for DKA with ketones is. The stratospheric out of safe parameter BG levels..

Looking at the image of the message from your dietitian she also doesn't have a grasp on a bolus insulin working profile either?

Sorry to do this, TZ, & frankly, thanks for posting this. But your dietitian? Don't use this stuff on a daily basis.. We do.

"Rebound nocturnal hypo?" What does your sensor graph tell you..?

But I do concur with "one change at a time." A process of elimination...

But thanks for your feedback. It's always good to discuss & share. But let us both be mindful of the OP's personal condition & this topic.. ;):)

From what I know ketones are bad for you in general, they mess up the pH of the blood and are quite toxic. However a small amount is tolerated because your body tends to burn fat for energy overnight and your body burns a tiny amount of fat from your food. I’ve been told anything above 0.6 mmol/L is bad and personally even when my diet constituted of primarily fat (46%) I never saw it go above 0.4 mmol/L.

I was enquiring her about switching to Fiasp because it is known as a faster acting insulin aspart but she seemed confused. I read that Fiasp works in 2.5 minutes and has a 7 minutes earlier peak than NovoRapid. If I know this as a newly diagnosed diabetic then why doesn’t she know?

I seem to be having the dawn effect when I wake up. When I first wake up I’m around 6.1 mmol/L and then in 15 minutes by the time I’ve prepared my breakfast it’s around 8.6 mmol/L usually a bit higher than this but it stops rising after bolusing so I’m basically giving myself an extra unit of insulin every morning. Apart from that my 1:10 ratio seems to be working perfectly throughout the day although for large amounts of carb I seem to go hypo before it is digested
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Your HbA1c is not the only thing, you need to consider the quality of your life and the nutrients you’re getting. No fruit or veg means you will probably have to get some form of vitamins from tablets. Practically everything has carbs in it
Nope.. sorry but there are no essential carbohydrates.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
@TypeZero.

please be mindful that this topic was created by @UsmanMo96 because he is worried about his personal situation.

if you wish to focus on your own opinions on ketones, your own choice of insulin, your dawn phenomenon and what advice was given to you personally by a dietician, please start another thread to do so. At the moment you are derailing this thread from Usman’s concerns.
 

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
@UsmanMo96

you have mentioned, in previous posts, that you have a desire to lose weight, and your profile says you are on Metformin. Both of these things suggest that you may have insulin resistance.

You have also been told to slowly increase your insulin dose. This is known as titrating. The idea is to increase and increase and increase until you hit the dose that works for you.

some severely insulin resistant type 2 diabetics are on 100s of units of insulin a day. I have seen one Type 2 member of this forum mention they needed over 400 units a day to control their blood glucose.

so it is quite possible that you have not yet titrated up to enough insulin to work for you and your body.

the reason that medical professions ask people to titrate upwards slowly is because if they do it quickly, the sudden large doses of insulin may cause hypos.

there are several things that affect insulin resistance
It may be raised by carrying excess weight, being sedentary, a carby diet, genetic tendencies, certain medications and other medical conditions.
It may be lowered by weight loss, exercise, certain medications (e.g. Metformin), a lower carb diet, And resolving any other medical conditions that may cause insulin resistance.
 
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UsmanMo96

Well-Known Member
Messages
938
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
@UsmanMo96

you have mentioned, in previous posts, that you have a desire to lose weight, and your profile says you are on Metformin. Both of these things suggest that you may have insulin resistance.

You have also been told to slowly increase your insulin dose. This is known as titrating. The idea is to increase and increase and increase until you hit the dose that works for you.

some severely insulin resistant type 2 diabetics are on 100s of units of insulin a day. I have seen one Type 2 member of this forum mention they needed over 400 units a day to control their blood glucose.

so it is quite possible that you have not yet titrated up to enough insulin to work for you and your body.

the reason that medical professions ask people to titrate upwards slowly is because if they do it quickly, the sudden large doses of insulin may cause hypos.

there are several things that affect insulin resistance
It may be raised by carrying excess weight, being sedentary, a carby diet, genetic tendencies, certain medications and other medical conditions.
It may be lowered by weight loss, exercise, certain medications (e.g. Metformin), a lower carb diet, And resolving any other medical conditions that may cause insulin resistance.

My goal is definitely weight-loss, I agree with everyone who tells me that weight loss will come when I low carb, I haven't gained any weight on insulin either - which I am surprised by, I want to eventually get off sitagliptin and gliclazide, although I have been told by my pharmacist that I shouldn't be on gliclazide and sitagliptin along insulin, but long term my goal is to not been on so many medications. This will take me time but I hope to get there my DN hasn't ever mentioned low carbs to me even before insulin so I guess I will need to experiment myself. Appreciate your messages.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My goal is definitely weight-loss, I agree with everyone who tells me that weight loss will come when I low carb, I haven't gained any weight on insulin either - which I am surprised by, I want to eventually get off sitagliptin and gliclazide, although I have been told by my pharmacist that I shouldn't be on gliclazide and sitagliptin along insulin, but long term my goal is to not been on so many medications. This will take me time but I hope to get there my DN hasn't ever mentioned low carbs to me even before insulin so I guess I will need to experiment myself. Appreciate your messages.
Just remember please that if you start to cut carbs dramatically you will need to watch your medication as hypos can result from overmedicating when low carb. Check your bloods often and regularly and keep some anti hypo foods around just in case.
 

UsmanMo96

Well-Known Member
Messages
938
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Just remember please that if you start to cut carbs dramatically you will need to watch your medication as hypos can result from overmedicating when low carb. Check your bloods often and regularly and keep some anti hypo foods around just in case.

I will do, I haven't had any lows since I've been on insulin which was a surprise to me because I used to get lows when I was on it in 2014.
 

ert

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2,588
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Type 1
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diabetes
fasting
The rapid progression onto exogenous insulin suggests T1/LADA in my opinion.

Most T2s I know start insulin after years of having diabetes, it would be strange for someone to develop insulin resistance in a few months. The C peptide could be high due to pancreatic cancers like an insulinoma. A C peptide does not 100% confirm your diagnosis, it just reflects how much insulin your body is producing. A C peptide is also variable from person to person so it’s difficult to judge.

Based off the person’s blood glucose readings I think there’s a high probability of T1/LADA but I cannot say for sure as I am not a doctor and haven’t seen any test results.
I like your suggestion to leave it to the medical professionals to diagnose. They diagnosed type 2 here based on the c-peptide as well as a consultation. The tumours you mention are extremely rare, rather than mainstream which you are suggesting. The c-peptide is a good tool to differentiate between type 1's and 2's. The diagnosis is not as simple as just a rapid need for insulin. A lot of type-2's need insulin. It's how much insulin your body produces which is important, which is the c-peptide test.
 
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TypeZero.

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296
I like your suggestion to leave it to the medical professionals to diagnose. They diagnosed type 2 here based on the c-peptide as well as a consultation. The tumours you mention are extremely rare, rather than mainstream which you are suggesting. The c-peptide is a good tool to differentiate between type 1's and 2's. The diagnosis is not as simple as just a rapid need for insulin. A lot of type-2's need insulin. It's how much insulin your body produces which is important, which is the c-peptide test.

Yeah I know it’s best to leave it for the endos but the age of the person combined with the rapid progression onto insulin just made me think it may be T1 and there’s no harm in doing antibody tests
 

ert

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2,588
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Type 1
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Insulin
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diabetes
fasting
Yeah I know it’s best to leave it for the endos but the age of the person combined with the rapid progression onto insulin just made me think it may be T1 and there’s no harm in doing antibody tests
If the c-peptide was below the normal range, then the antibody test would be appropriate. This isn't the case here as type 2 was diagnosed with a c-peptide, which means elevated insulin. As they're already on insulin, and it's not bringing the blood sugars down, it's more like to be an insulin dosage issue. Type 2's can require a lot of insulin due to insulin resistance. I'm type 1 and only need 10-15 units of insulin a day, where if you have IR you may need up to 400 units. They need to contact their diabetes team for advice
 
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ert

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Messages
2,588
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Type 1
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diabetes
fasting
I will do, I haven't had any lows since I've been on insulin which was a surprise to me because I used to get lows when I was on it in 2014.
From this post it looks like you're on insulin and your blood sugars still aren't coming down? Ask your GP about your insulin dosage. I'm type 1 with no IR and take about 15 units a day. Type 2's with IR (which your c-peptide supports) can need up to 400 units a day.
 

UsmanMo96

Well-Known Member
Messages
938
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
From this post it looks like you're on insulin and your blood sugars still aren't coming down? Ask your GP about your insulin dosage. I'm type 1 with no IR and take about 15 units a day. Type 2's with IR (which your c-peptide supports) can need up to 400 units a day.

I will be speaking with my diabetes specialist next week. My gp was suppose to call me today, but maybe he was busy and forgot, I shall now wait for my diabetes specialist to contact me. I am on insulin. I have gone up to 50 units a day of novorapid and currently only taking 21unitd of Lantus, 400 units a day that’s probably going to make me put on the lbs