Lower blood sugars, broken nose dislocated shoulder , cautionary tale .

[CherryAA]

Oh I'm sorry to hear that. I broke my jaw a few years ago, (I'm clearly bit of klutz) . Do you regularly test your own blood pressure? I am trying to keep an eye on all these things at present as it seems my body is changing rather a lot with this change of diet.

 

[janiceMT]

Remember to drink more fluid and not go too low on salt either when reducing weight and blood sugars...

since diagnosis I have been walking much , much more. I also seem to have become a little unsteady on my feet. I think this might be that my body is simply not used to operating in the 5-6 range. Last night minor stumbles were replaced by a major fall.
Walking home along the Embankment, after seeing the new Jack Reacher movie ( don't bother to go lol its bad ). I tripped after one of Charlie Chaplin type runs where you are trying desperately to keep upright I fell flat on my nose breaking it in the process.

After half an hour of trying to recover enough to go home to bed, I realised that A & E was required. At that point it became clear that I had dislocated my right shoulder and fractured my clavicle.

Substantial laughing gas and two shots of morphine were nowhere near enough to prevent my screams when the doctors manipulated it back into place. I think I probably woke all the patients and a few in the nearby cemetery!

On the plus side my blood pressure went down to 104/59 a level not seen by me , my blood sugars remained at 9.3 for the entire duration ( 5.9 before I fell over)

I took the opportunity to educate the entire A& E department about LCHF and after the inevitable - oh that's dangerous, they tested my ketone level which is 3. Ideal for weight loss. A couple of them took notes to pass onto friends who are diabetic.

I guess the takeaway from this is that everyone who is walking more with rapidly reducing blood sugars needs to take extra care.
Finally I bought a standing desk a while ago, but have not yet got round to using it. It turns out that is at the ideal position to rest my sling !

Onwards and downwards lol

 

[CherryAA]

Yes.I'm not a natural water drinker, and I'm sure my salt intake could be better too Today I did 15 km walk and had mussels for dinner, it had a very salty sauce, much more than my tastes, but I deliberately drank all of that! no sign of tripping up despite BS reading 5.8 so an improvement !

 

[Freema]

There is a recent Jason Fung blog post on the protein and loose skin thing here:

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/

I found it fascinating, since I have previously had baggy skin on low calorie, but no sign of it yet on intermittent fasting.

okay that is worth thinking about, I thought the 0,8 grams pro kg bodyweight was the lowest, I think I´ll try to go lower when loosing weight then.... and maybe have even lower numbers in my morning measurings...

 

[SWUSA_]

okay that is worth thinking about, I thought the 0,8 grams pro kg bodyweight was the lowest, I think I´ll try to go lower when loosing weight then.... and maybe have even lower numbers in my morning measurings...

Freema my protein number is lower than 0.8 per kg with no baggy skin. I am at 35 to 45 grams per day of protein now up from about 25 before.

 

[susyross]

Sorry to hear about hypo accidents - my best one (or worst) was a hypo while driving an automatic car... I was actually in a driveway not on the road and for some reason with my super low BG I couldn't figure out the gears.. I had stopped the car (I thought) and put one leg out the door... unfortunately the car was still in drive and it went forward crushing my leg between the door and the car next to me .. I did put it in reverse and of course re-crushed my leg and then did the same thing again- it was terrible... I had always driven a stick shift and my brain just couldn't figure out the automatic during my hypo... I have a nice indent in my leg as a reminder.. It was not a fun trip to the ER... Any non-diabetic person cannot comprehend the non- comprehension of simple things with low BG - I did get a pancreatic transplant so no more issues, but I am still connected to all my diabetic buddies around the world! And yes I had checked my BG prior to driving and it was perfect.. my issues was hypo unawareness and between the comas and other accidents (none driving) despite pumps and two monitors.. the transplant saved my life!

 

[CherryAA]

Freema my protein number is lower than 0.8 per kg with no baggy skin. I am at 35 to 45 grams per day of protein now up from about 25 before.

Hi SWUSA,

what does your diet consist of t get protein so low ? how low is your carbs?
cheers

 

[CherryAA]

well follow at the fracture clinic today, it turns out I also tore a ligament - ( never ending saga) n MRI scan next then no doubt some other procedure will appear, meanwhile I am to wear my sling for another three weeks. This is getting boring !

 

[SWUSA_]

Hi SWUSA,

what does your diet consist of t get protein so low ? how low is your carbs?
cheers

@CherryAA I have posted several days worth of my typical menus under Type 2-What are you eating

Hi SWUSA,

what does your diet consist of t get protein so low ? how low is your carbs?
cheers

@CherryAA- I have entered several days worth of my typical menus under thread "Type 2-W hat have you eaten?" I added carb count and calories for a few of them. My carbs are usually 80-100 grams per day. My calories are about 1200 per day but I have some days that are lower and some that are higher in calories.Remember I have two other metabolic disorders I control with diet and medication also. I was vegetarian for about 12 years and I often have vegetarian meals as well. Why do you ask?

 

[CherryAA]

Thanks, I will go look it up.

In the last couple of weeks I don't seem to be making any headway in getting my blood sugars down the average has been 6.5% - 7% and range 6% to 10%. It feels as if they might be getting a creeping a little the wrong way at the moment - which might just be the accident I suppose. Mornings are by far the worst, breakfast can easily get me to 9/10 or 11 at one hour and often doesn't get below 8 at two

My home test yesterday suggests I am now at an Hba1C at 6.8% which is pretty much exactly what my current average daily BS numbers are also giving me so absent an improvement in the current average my Hba1C s going nowhere. .

I'm trying to figure out what to change to try and make another push downwards. When you stated 50g protein it interested me because mine has been quite a lot higher - so I was wondering what your offset was - carbs or fat

I am currently trying to stay in ketosis - my stats for the last three months have been 1250 calories, carbs 30 g ( 11%) protein 62g ( 20%) fats 85g 61% and whiskey 5% .

I'm walking on average 90 minutes a day , I'm a bit hampered in doing any other types of exercise at the moment, because after the fall I'm under strict instructions to keep my arm in a sling.,

I think I have four possible options at this next stage

a) try fasting

My current ketone level is only around 0.5. I am aware that if I want to be successful at fasting I probably need to be more deeply ketotic first so I started a very low calorie day today, basically eating just above round veg soup - ( only 300 calories today so fat and will be 500 for the day and less than 25g carbs ) but that seems to be keep my BS higher than before. My biggest issue is in the morning and it gets worse until I eat something substantial, so that makes me wary of trying fasting because I don't see why that won't just cause by bs to stay a lot higher for the entire time? I note that people say that they BS levels go down by circa 25% by day 3 - but what happens in the meantime?

b) increase my carbs, cut my protein but stick to 1250 overall

I have been a bit surprised to see a relatively low increase in blood sugars after eating some carbs ( e.g. 10g carrot cake yesterday did nothing) and also been a bit surprise that after meals out its not been that bad despite eating much more than I do at home. I'm conscious that with a lot of weight to lose I probably need to be careful on the combined total of carbs and protein if I'm gonna avoid a lot of saggy skin . So part of me says that maybe I will get better blood sugars by coming out of ketosis and eating more carbs - that worries me because its a lot harder to stick to 1250 calories if also best with hunger pangs

c) stick to 25g, cut protein more to say 50g and eat even more fats - which again is why I asked you the question !

d) stick to what I've been doing so far and just assume that the current plateau is a function of the accident.

Its all very complex !

Any thoughts welcome

 

[Freema]

Thanks, I will go look it up.

In the last couple of weeks I don't seem to be making any headway in getting my blood sugars down the average has been 6.5% - 7% and range 6% to 10%. It feels as if they might be getting a creeping a little the wrong way at the moment - which might just be the accident I suppose. Mornings are by far the worst, breakfast can easily get me to 9/10 or 11 at one hour and often doesn't get below 8 at two

My home test yesterday suggests I am now at an Hba1C at 6.8% which is pretty much exactly what my current average daily BS numbers are also giving me so absent an improvement in the current average my Hba1C s going nowhere. .

I'm trying to figure out what to change to try and make another push downwards. When you stated 50g protein it interested me because mine has been quite a lot higher - so I was wondering what your offset was - carbs or fat

I am currently trying to stay in ketosis - my stats for the last three months have been 1250 calories, carbs 30 g ( 11%) protein 62g ( 20%) fats 85g 61% and whiskey 5% .

I'm walking on average 90 minutes a day , I'm a bit hampered in doing any other types of exercise at the moment, because after the fall I'm under strict instructions to keep my arm in a sling.,

I think I have four possible options at this next stage

a) try fasting

My current ketone level is only around 0.5. I am aware that if I want to be successful at fasting I probably need to be more deeply ketotic first so I started a very low calorie day today, basically eating just above round veg soup - ( only 300 calories today so fat and will be 500 for the day and less than 25g carbs ) but that seems to be keep my BS higher than before. My biggest issue is in the morning and it gets worse until I eat something substantial, so that makes me wary of trying fasting because I don't see why that won't just cause by bs to stay a lot higher for the entire time? I note that people say that they BS levels go down by circa 25% by day 3 - but what happens in the meantime?

b) increase my carbs, cut my protein but stick to 1250 overall

I have been a bit surprised to see a relatively low increase in blood sugars after eating some carbs ( e.g. 10g carrot cake yesterday did nothing) and also been a bit surprise that after meals out its not been that bad despite eating much more than I do at home. I'm conscious that with a lot of weight to lose I probably need to be careful on the combined total of carbs and protein if I'm gonna avoid a lot of saggy skin . So part of me says that maybe I will get better blood sugars by coming out of ketosis and eating more carbs - that worries me because its a lot harder to stick to 1250 calories if also best with hunger pangs

c) stick to 25g, cut protein more to say 50g and eat even more fats - which again is why I asked you the question !

d) stick to what I've been doing so far and just assume that the current plateau is a function of the accident.

Its all very complex !

Any thoughts welcome

you are doing so much and fine I think , I think you shall just keep on like you do now and after a while it will get better, 30 grams of carbs is a fine job I think, I don´t think I would be able to manage without metformin (2 x 850mg) right now, mayby in a year, after many more month of heavy excercise... and you are doing all this without medication... that is a fine job, I believe my numbers would be more like yours if I didn´t get metformin

 

[CherryAA]

The metformin is a bit of a conundrum. It seems to me that doctors pretty much prescribe it for everyone as a first tactic. That means that its hard to know to what extent any improvement you get is a result of the drug or the diet. So the end result is that one ends up reliant on the drug without actually knowing what difference it is really making.

I am already on blood pressure medication and I would like to see how far I can get without yet another drug first. Is there anyone on here that did diet first for say 6 months, then moved to metformin to get to truly low numbers? or does anyone know of any statistics or trials done where people were already low carbing for a few months before they started metformin?

 

[Freema]

The metformin is a bit of a conundrum. It seems to me that doctors pretty much prescribe it for everyone as a first tactic. That means that its hard to know to what extent any improvement you get is a result of the drug or the diet. So the end result is that one ends up reliant on the drug without actually knowing what difference it is really making.

I am already on blood pressure medication and I would like to see how far I can get without yet another drug first. Is there anyone on here that did diet first for say 6 months, then moved to metformin to get to truly low numbers? or does anyone know of any statistics or trials done where people were already low carbing for a few months before they started metformin?

well you are right about that, I really don´t know my level without metformine.... maybe if I get 3 weeks in a row with morning numbers under 5mmols , then i´ll try not taking my metformine for 14 days then... and see what happens... but I have gotten my number much more low after going lover carbs than I did the first 2 month , so I am sure my diet has done the most...

 

[SWUSA_]

@CherryAA First of all I have to point out that my last Hba1c was 7.5 which I think is too high and is higher than yours. Second my doctor switched me from Lantus (insulin) to Toujeo (insulin) for two weeks and that was a total disaster leading to spikes in the 200's after some meals. My next Hba1c will reflect that time and may be worse. I am back on Lantus now for two days and an getting glucose readings in the 5's and 6's now.
Third I am on insulin so I have to eat some carbs. Fourth I can not eat any higher fat than I am now because it sets off gall bladder problems for me-yes I have tried it in the past. Fifth plateaus are a part of weight loss and to be expected. I think you are doing great! Sixth I would suggest that you eat less fat and more vegetables that you like. Vegetables are very filling and help move the digestive track along so you do not get constipated. You can eat a much larger volume of vegetables for the same calorie count as a much smaller volume of fat, protein, alcohol or diary. Some have zero carbs and many more are low carb. They are generally less calorie rich than meats, dairy, alcohol or baked goods. Do you like any vegetables? Who would have thunk it but suggesting eating vegetables on this diabetic forum is actually controversial. Seventh Walking has been shown to be good for helping to control blood glucose so you are doing great there.And last I am so flattered that you asked me.

 

[CherryAA]

@ freema, thanks for the time taken to reply.

So far I have found my digestive tract has got lot better since I went to high fat and my cholesterol has also gone down a lot as well, so , so far, fingers crossed my gallbladder seems to be ok. In the end we all react differently to different things, I guess the trick is trying to find out what works best individually.

I've been pretty low calorie , low fat, highish carb most of my life . where the carbs were never processed foods ( I pretty much only ever ate real foods - even when being a total pig) that is what is led me to the very low carb choice because when I checked on my previous diet I was only ever eating about 100g carbs back then on a "normal day" - and that gave rise to the 10% hba1C and 18.4 bs reading. I totally love vegetables and I was clearly eating far too many of them for my own personal circumstances. I particularly like root vegetables, ( carrot swede and parsnip- not potatoes). I make a mean vegetable curry with beansprouts instead of rice - but as that has been one of my staples the week before my diagnosis, its clearly not a great plan for now so , I have taken them off the agenda and switched to broccoli, cauliflower and spinach.

I guess this week has been the first in 16 where I have found it hard to shift anything at all and also found by blood sugar being more obstinate, hence thinking about switching it up a bit . Having said that I also appear to have started with a cold and I've noticed others saying that that also increases blood sugar, so maybe best to just carry on as usual through the old then see what happens in a couple of weeks.

(I'm an impatient lass )

 

[CherryAA]

One quick question - your strap line says hba1C is 34 - which would be 5.3% which has come down very well from the starting 57. 7.4% , mine is currently 50 or 6.8% . You mentioned 7.5% is that a new figure?

 

[SWUSA_]

One quick question - your strap line says hba1C is 34 - which would be 5.3% which has come down very well from the starting 57. 7.4% , mine is currently 50 or 6.8% . You mentioned 7.5% is that a new figure?

I think the 7.5 is my (SWUSA) current hba1c reading and the 34 is freema's. We are using different scales here as you note in your post. Mine reflects the time before I decided to increase my protein intake about a month and a half ago. I think the decision to stay the course you are on through your cold is the right one. My blood sugars always rise when I am sick or stressed. But remember if you are not feeling full you can always add the no carb or low carb vegetables you mentioned (spinach, cauliflower, broccoli) and green leafy vegetables to your rotation. They add very few calories and lots of satisfaction and nutrition (vitamins, minerals and fiber) for me. I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

[CherryAA]

ah ok, sorry, so many figures flashing about I'm awash with gismo's measuring stuff - its a full time job ! and yes I am adding in more veggies now. I would love to find a way to bring my morning numbers don with food somehow but currently its a distant prospect - still progress is progess.

 

[SWUSA_]

ah ok, sorry, so many figures flashing about I'm awash with gismo's measuring stuff - its a full time job ! and yes I am adding in more veggies now. I would love to find a way to bring my morning numbers don with food somehow but currently its a distant prospect - still progress is progess.

I think you are doing great!

 

[Freema]

@ freema, thanks for the time taken to reply.

So far I have found my digestive tract has got lot better since I went to high fat and my cholesterol has also gone down a lot as well, so , so far, fingers crossed my gallbladder seems to be ok. In the end we all react differently to different things, I guess the trick is trying to find out what works best individually.

I've been pretty low calorie , low fat, highish carb most of my life . where the carbs were never processed foods ( I pretty much only ever ate real foods - even when being a total pig) that is what is led me to the very low carb choice because when I checked on my previous diet I was only ever eating about 100g carbs back then on a "normal day" - and that gave rise to the 10% hba1C and 18.4 bs reading. I totally love vegetables and I was clearly eating far too many of them for my own personal circumstances. I particularly like root vegetables, ( carrot swede and parsnip- not potatoes). I make a mean vegetable curry with beansprouts instead of rice - but as that has been one of my staples the week before my diagnosis, its clearly not a great plan for now so , I have taken them off the agenda and switched to broccoli, cauliflower and spinach.

I guess this week has been the first in 16 where I have found it hard to shift anything at all and also found by blood sugar being more obstinate, hence thinking about switching it up a bit . Having said that I also appear to have started with a cold and I've noticed others saying that that also increases blood sugar, so maybe best to just carry on as usual through the old then see what happens in a couple of weeks.

(I'm an impatient lass )

I like you being impatient , look upon that as the same as being ambitious and that is good when having diabetes...

I myself did actually eat very much carbs and low fat for most of the last 20 years... I am afraid that the low fat diet recomended from all sides in at least 2 decades is a very unhealthy advice and that many women have become obese from that very bad advice from Health authorities.... men are very bad at listening to advice and maybe therefore women have gotten much more obese... .. I don´t think if one was healthy that one should eat like 60% fat or more, but we as diabetics have a much more limited palet to choose between..

the damaging eating of white flour is not really told to people, that white flour is actually much worse than plain sugar that is also very bad... like 200 grams of white flour is equal to 300 grams of sugar when it comes to spiking blood glucose...

so thinking of all the toast slices people do eat not thinking of them as worse than sugar; that is a disaster for our civilization, if dropping the white bread could maybe be half of stopping the diabetes epidemic...and stopping drinking fuzzy-drinks like Coca cola almost the other half.
the starches in root-vegetables should maybe also be eaten i moderation...
but considering vegetables vegans do only get diabetes in a rate of less than 40% compared to the average combined bread/ vegetable/meat-eater so that diet can not be the cause of diabtes in general....