1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Meat Ban

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Mr_Pot, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,435
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Scientists? "LOL" ;)

    The majority of nutrition 'scientists' are payroll statisticians analysing white noise and reaching predetermined outcomes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes Received:
    21,072
    Trophy Points:
    298
    A spokesperson for the American Cancer Society (ACS) likens the new advice to saying it's safe to ride a bike without a helmet, despite clear evidence of the risk.

    Yet millions do precisely that every day without coming to harm despite the risk, the study does not say there is no risk but only a low risk and not enough of a risk to change your dietary habits sounds like a bit of the sour grapes from the establishment to me.
     
  3. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,446
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I cant work out how eating red meat increases our risk of type 2 diabetes. Meat is good for reversing type 2 diabetes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,435
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Trophy Points:
    198
    That's because it doesn't increase the risk of type 2 diabetes. It's Jackanory. The whole idea is claptrap. A narrative pedalled by evolution-deniers who want the world to adopt the Garden of Eden diet.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,435
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I think they might be conflating clear evidence with paid-for statistical mumbo jumbo :shifty:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    410
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Me too
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,561
    Likes Received:
    1,653
    Trophy Points:
    178
    It would go a long way to prevent this type of claim and counter claim if the use of "relative risk" was banned. Just tell the public the actual risk and let them decide for themselves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,582
    Likes Received:
    6,975
    Trophy Points:
    278
    When I feel the need to take dietary advice from a advocate of the law I think I will choose Lady Hale...
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,435
    Likes Received:
    3,357
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Agreed, and of course not making up the risk from weak and unreliable statistical 'evidence' in the first place would be a good start.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  10. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    123
    The studies which say that meat consumption does increase the risk of Type 2 diabetes are based upon food surveys. Firstly they don't distinguish between prime cuts of meat and mechanically extracted meat in cheap meat pies. Secondly some of them only did a total of 3 surveys of their subjects with up to a 12 year gap.
    Do you remember exactly what your weekly diet consisted of over the last 12 yrs? The vast majority of people will have no idea.
    I have a pretty good idea because for over a decade I was eating high Carb Low Fat, Low meat (mainly veggie) then very recently after T2D I saw the light and switched around completely to Low Carb High Fat.

    So a low meat (and particularly low red meat diet 'gave me T2D' - according to the standards of those studies.
    But in this forum we can be pretty sure that it wasn't the low meat, it was what I ate instead of the meat - Carbs in large quantities including the infamous '5 a Day !
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,333
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Was just reading something that claimed this. It stemmed from the fat that red meat has saturated fats, and the saturated fats raise blood lipids which cause insulin resistance leading to type 2. Not that I believe it but that’s the claim. Personally I think association is being mistaking symptom for for cause with lipids and diabetes
     
  12. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    927
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Well that dumb theory is easily disproved by finding a T2 with a meter and testing a Carb versus some Protein versus some Fat.
    Surely nobody can deny that Carbs are the major problem for T2 Diabetics - even if they still believe that Saturated Fats cause high LDL (which they don't), which in turn causes heart disease (which it doesn't)!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Keith_Simpson

    Keith_Simpson Type 2 · Active Member

    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Apart from meat as a protein not producing glucose, there is the small matter of choice & whether these environmental zealots are to be allowed to get away with dictating what we can eat. The mistake government has & continues to make is to fill the National Curriculum with their political agenda on the environment with the result that it is creating a generation of zealots who are embracing environmental issues like a religion with climate change as the central pillar of their belief.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,333
    Likes Received:
    2,132
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Personally I have no issue with environmental concerns. I think it’s right we should be concerned. I just don’t think targeting meat is the way forward or particularly helpful, possibly harmful to the exact same cause.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,395
    Likes Received:
    15,614
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I think most of us would care about the environment and support the green cause. The problem is that this has got mixed up with veganism. Eating greens isn't necessarily green. Just as fat doesn't make you fat. The anti meat and anti fat messages are two very harmful myths that are not backed by real science.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  16. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes Received:
    21,072
    Trophy Points:
    298
    In the 1980's I said to David Owen that environmental issues should be given more priority his answer was Economy before Ecology my answer was without Ecology there is no Economy he thought we would have to agree to disagree on that I wonder if that's still his view haven't seen him for quite a while now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,395
    Likes Received:
    15,614
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Yes the eternal push for growth just uses up the worlds resources and damages the environment.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

    Messages:
    3,973
    Likes Received:
    1,907
    Trophy Points:
    198
    ( You mean Dr David Owen of the Gang of 4? )

    You are right John. I agree with you entirely.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #98 Listlad, Oct 5, 2019 at 9:08 PM
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  19. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    10,672
    Likes Received:
    21,072
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Correct that is who I mean.
     
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook