Moving from Low Carb to Higher levels

[andcol]

This thread is to gather peoples approaches on how they went from a low carb diet to a more modest carb diet.

Background
I have been slowly increasing my carbohydrate levels since my imposed restricted diet from about 60g/day up to my present 200(ish)g/day (think it may be more than this now no longer count them). I have been building this up in a slow and methodical approach over a period of about 6 weeks.

Initial Approach
Just start eating the increased amounts

This approach works but for a few days I got large spikes shortly after eating as my pancreas is caught on the hop.

2nd Approach
As per the initial one but I put extra exercise in to squash the spike. Definitely worked as long as I could actually find the time to do the exercise

Current Approach
My current approach is to plan my increase like a military operation. For a few days I substitute some of my lower GI carbs I eat with some higher ones. A good one is to replace my berries with dried fruit. This gets my pancreas in a state to expect a higher spike. I slowly increase this level until I reach a reasonable BG spike and then stay there for a few days. After a couple of days eating like this my BG spike starts to go down and then I substitute my high GI for an increased low/medium GI and stay at this level until I am ready to go on (ie my levels sit under 7 at one hour and under 6 at 2hours (don't forget things can be offset if the carbs are fat soaked). Testing is the key. if I over do it and I spike over my target or stay there for more than a few minutes then I will exercise to get it down (revert to 2nd approach)

So what do I consider as a comfortable spike. I have decided on this number after measuring my wife when she eats normally. When she has a relatively high carb meal, especially if she over indulges in them, I can test her BG levels go up to just over 8. As I tend to rest about 0.5 mmol/L higher than her at all times I consider a spike up to 8.5 is reasonable as long as it does not languish there. I have done many tests alongside my wife testing every few minutes measuring and comparing and I find I am always just above her by 0.5 mmol/L on the way up and down. Of course she has eaten a lot more carbs than me but that is just what she is used to.

So this is my current approach but we are all looking for improvements so what do you do?

 

[Dee_226]

Hi Andrew,

to be honest I am happy with my carbs being restricted to 80 - 100g per day. I am on diet and exercise only and have a lot of weight to lose, I know that certain carbs make my BG levels spike and that others are ok in small doses and am happy to live with that.

My question is this ........ Why do you want/need to increase your carb intake? (being nosey)

Hugs,

 

[Daibell]

Hi. It looks like you have succeeded thru weight loss to remove insulin resistance and therefore seriously reduced your blood sugar; well done. I guess you need to be careful with increasing the carbs that you don't start putting on weight again which is easily done. If you can hold the weight and blood sugar then you have achieved what many diabetics wish for

 

[this is too difficult]

I had the same idea about mixing high and low gi foods. Perhaps a small amount of high gi to start it going then a larger than normal amount of low gi.

 

[AndBreathe]

Thanks Andrew.

My approach hasn't been as structured as yours, by a long way. We have simply begun to have more main meals which include more carbs. Breakfast has always been pretty carby, as I have always been able to have rolled oats at breakfast, and lunch is when I have my fish fixes. So, rice more often, for example, then testing in the usual way.

At this stage in my diabetic journey, I don't feel a great need for more carbs, although I need to maintain a stable weight. Importantly, for me, my OH has very much adopted the same way of eating as me. He has physically trimmed too, although he has always had a neat and compact physique. But, he is now sometimes saying he's hungry, and missing some carby foods. Clearly the hunger is not tolerable, nor do I want to influence his eating, if it puts him into an unhappy place, needlessly. So, I'm trying to just up the frequency of some carbs (and clearly he therefore does the same), as well as encouraging him to have more carbs anyway, if he wants them. He sometimes thinks it would be cruel of him to eat chips or such in front of me. Bless. How lucky am I?

Thus far, I haven't eaten anything sweet; cakes, biscuits, ice cream, for example, since October, and I rarely fancy it, so can leave those alone, longer term. From the savoury things I have increased, or re-introduced, my bloods haven't increased at all, aside from two occasions I had a normal/generously sized baked potato. Readings after those were elevate for me, but on the second occasion, it was "only" 5.7. I know many would be very happy with that, but my main meal postprandial average is 4.2, so it is well up for me. I am content I may have to have more filling/less potato, but based on your findings (suggesting your pancreas perks up when stimulated), I will try it a third time, with a larger spud. I haven't been brave enough to try pasta or pizza yet. Being able to eat pasta, uneventfully, would be convenient, so I'll get around to it.

I guess I realise, but have only just really verbalised it to my OH, that I am quite fearful of ruining the good work I have done in the last 6 months. On the other hand, I would like expanded food options, and obviously to make my OH more comfortable, having chips from time to time. I need to get my head around working to properly non-diabetic levels, rather than my own scores, which sometimes flabbergast me.

Just for clarity, this isn't any kind of whine about my OH who has been my greatest supporter on this journey.

It's all a game, and one day, I may just understand the rules a bit better!!

 

[andcol]

We both seem to have great support from our OHs. I must say that I never stopped the weetabix or ready brek although portion control of these is the key. Can't tell you what I am like with pasta as I just can't eat it (it gets stuck and I seem unable to swallow it) but had some coconut rice (white) in a thai restaurant last week and my levels didn't budge although no other carbs.

My most carby meal is my lunch when I like to have a slice of bread, berries, dried fruit, and fruit (ate a box of apricots over the last week). Umm fructose, completed unregulated and you are going to spike whoever you are. Also taken to having a crumpet at the weekend lunch times as well as my sandwich.

I will add I do not think I need more carbs and actually need to reduce them again or up my exercise regime as I have not got to a state of hunger between meals for the last week and feeling a little bloated. I seem to like living on the edge of hunger now.

4.2 postprandial! The only time I can get there is to measure when I get off the treadmill and then it is a case of catching it at the right point in the cycle. I have terribly numb fingertips at those levels - weird isn't it. I would consider 5.7 a great postprandial and mostly sit at about 6 but it does vary depending on the meal (breakfast is low 5, whereas lunch is often around 6.5 but that is always right down at 3 hours)

OK the treadmill awaits before work

Look after yourself and enjoy the sun
A

 

[Scandichic]

Like Deelicious, I'm intrigued...... Why do you want to increase your carbs? Is it about variety ? Just asking?

 

[andcol]

because I just don't want to have to stick to low carb for the rest of my life. My levels are "back to normal" so I want to see where I can go with them. It is experimentation and knowing my boundaries. If I have a reasonable amount then I know I don't have to worry too much when out and about, like last week having to live out of a suitcase from a hotel room for the week. Most Restaurant are generally low carb unfriendly

 

[runner2009]

Like Deelicious, I'm intrigued...... Why do you want to increase your carbs? Is it about variety ? Just asking?

Yes, my question is why too. The only way I can increase carbs consistently is to reduce my over all calorie intake.

I replace 1 or 2 meals with 2 tablespoons of Rice powder protein and 2 1/2 tablespoon of chia seed 1 tablespoon of heavy cream and cold water.

The evening meal can have higher carbs maybe 90g.

Feel better with low carb higher fat though

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[this is too difficult]

Yes, my question is why too. The only way I can increase carbs consistently is to reduce my over all calorie intake.

I replace 1 or 2 meals with 2 tablespoons of Rice powder protein and 2 1/2 tablespoon of chia seed 1 tablespoon of heavy cream and cold water.

The evening meal can have higher carbs maybe 90g.

Feel better with low carb higher fat though

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Sounds delicious.

 

[AndBreathe]

My most carby meal is my lunch when I like to have a slice of bread, berries, dried fruit, and fruit (ate a box of apricots over the last week). Umm fructose, completed unregulated and you are going to spike whoever you are.
A

Curiously enough, my figures are very benign on tropical fruit, although it haven't yet tried banana again. Mango, papaya and pineapple don't do much to me, at the 2 hour point (max mid 4s) although, if i mirror my OH's breakfast of fruit and yoghurt, I need to have a sprinkling of rolled oats with it, or I'm very hungry before lunch. Obviously that's on plain yoghurt, where he will probably have a flavoured pro-biotic option, and only feels hungry when lunch is due. We haven't got any bananas coming along in the garden at the moment, but next we do, I'll sample a little one.

I don't know if the why more carbs query was targeted solely at Andrew, but for me, I think I stated my most immediate objective. Additionally, when I come back to UK in A couple of months, I will probably pick up a short term contract for a few months, before deciding where to be next winter. If working, I am likely to be in hotels 4 nights a week, and being able to more flexible food choices easier would be good. But, none of those things are set in stone.

 

[andcol]

Bananas don't spike me up even when they are really ripe. They are my most fav fruit but they upset my stomach nowadays

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Scandichic]

Curiously enough, my figures are very benign on tropical fruit, although it haven't yet tried banana again. Mango, papaya and pineapple don't do much to me, at the 2 hour point (max mid 4s) although, if i mirror my OH's breakfast of fruit and yoghurt, I need to have a sprinkling of rolled oats with it, or I'm very hungry before lunch. Obviously that's on plain yoghurt, where he will probably have a flavoured pro-biotic option, and only feels hungry when lunch is due. We haven't got any bananas coming along in the garden at the moment, but next we do, I'll sample a little one.

I don't know if the why more carbs query was targeted solely at Andrew, but for me, I think I stated my most immediate objective. Additionally, when I come back to UK in A couple of months, I will probably pick up a short term contract for a few months, before deciding where to be next winter. If working, I am likely to be in hotels 4 nights a week, and being able to more flexible food choices easier would be good. But, none of those things are set in stone.

I just assumed that as a diabetic these things would always cause a spike and are therefore best avoided. If I have a marks and spencer mini pot pudding, the spike is quite quick and will go from 6.3 to 7 but be back within 30 mins to below 6. If I eat a child portion of rice then bs rises steadily over 2 hours to almost double figures and I feel quite ill. Ditto bread and pasta. Rice is the worst. I have come to the conclusion that I don't miss rice or pasta. Very disappointed when I had them. Psychological? Then felt I'll.

 

[Indy51]

@Scandichic - I recently ate rice for the first time in about a year. At 1 hour I was 8.2, then 7.1 at 3 hours which wasn't too bad but then things went to hell in a handbasket - I didn't eat anything but my BG continue to rise until it was 9.2 at 4 hours after eating! At that point I gave up testing and had something to eat as I was starving - not a sensation I'm at all used to these days!

Interesting thing was that my sister was staying with me and we ate exactly the same Japanese meal for lunch - she's not a diabetic and a couple of times I took her fasting and 1 hour levels while she was here and her levels made me green with envy. However, her 3 hour level after the meal was 6.9 which was the highest reading she had while staying with me. So I'm really wondering about people who claim that white rice is a "safe starch".

 

[Scandichic]

@Scandichic - I recently ate rice for the first time in about a year. At 1 hour I was 8.2, then 7.1 at 3 hours which wasn't too bad but then things went to hell in a handbasket - I didn't eat anything but my BG continue to rise until it was 9.2 at 4 hours after eating! At that point I gave up testing and had something to eat as I was starving - not a sensation I'm at all used to these days!

Interesting thing was that my sister was staying with me and we ate exactly the same Japanese meal for lunch - she's not a diabetic and a couple of times I took her fasting and 1 hour levels while she was here and her levels made me green with envy. However, her 3 hour level after the meal was 6.9 which was the highest reading she had while staying with me. So I'm really wondering about people who claim that white rice is a "safe starch".

I think I was either 9.4 or 9.6. Naan bread wasn't much lower and when I had 4 mouthfuls of pasta it went up up 8.something. Imagine what would have happened if I'd eaten a child's portion! I dread to think! I had to ring the hospital to check the date of the appointment as I forgot to take the letter. I spoke to the lovely diabetic nurse at the hospital. She asked me how I was. I told her that I had now lost 2 stone 2lb (she told me that's fantastic!) and halved my hba1c. (She said she couldn't believe how well I'd done!) I told her that my was usually between 5.5 and 6.5. She told me that I needed to eat more carb. I patiently explained what happens when I eat rice, pasta and bread. She told me that I needed to eat more carb as it's a source of energy.

 

[andcol]

Yep rice is a weird thing. A quick rise and then it us sustained. Just loves to give . When I eat it nowadays (and will test tonight several times and report back) I don't tend to go above 6.5 That is why I like to have carbs in my diet as I can handle them. My body is now "tuned" to them again and with my weight lose and exercise things are looking good

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[andcol]

A source of energy it is but not the only one as you know. However it is fast acting energy so is great during exercise when muscles become low on their stores.
You probably have those spikes because you are not used to them. I was like that, but not quite as bad as I didn't as low carb as you, until i increased my amount. It is a bit of a circular argument. I can't eat carbs but that is because I don't eat carbs and I don't because it seems I can't. All I can say is if you are happy without the carbs stick with it

Good luck

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[andcol]

Here is the report of my rice meal last night

At 1 hour and 1.5 hours after eating I was at 6.5. Down to 4.0 at 2 hours but did walk a km. Back up to 5.1 at 3.5 hours just before going to bed. Fasting of 4.5 this morning. The walk skewed it all a little but definately my meal was still providing me with glucose at 3 hours plus. Whether that was the rice or the proteins from the meat and nuts I couldnt say

 

[Positive]

Yes this is the thread I was looking all over the place today as I read this yesterday and want to add my experiments with carbo. I went on ND for 10 days and lost 2.6kgs,put back 500g going as doing LCHF. I am very close to my ideal weight now. Trying carb on and off, very disappointing BS levels. Couple of times tried a bread roll BS went to after 1 hour 12.7, 2 hours 12.1, 3hrs 8..1 and 4.5hrs 6.
At present I am also keen to keep away from carbo as I am do not want BS shooting up and gaining weight as a result. In the future like to eat some hot cross buns with anchor butter.
Definitely no no for white rice as BS stays high for ever. Slice of seeded bread not so bad.
When I loose two more kgs I will try introducing carbo slowly.
You have done well Andrew with your military style operations. Do you loose weight having increase your carb levels?

 

[andcol]

Yes still losing about a pound a week. Over 60 pounds down now - another 2 pound and I will be at 25% weight loss

Ate 2 chocolate digestive biscuits today (just an experiment). Started at 5, at 40 minutes was 5.6, at 1 hour 6.5 and finally at 2 hours I was at 4.6. Will not do my weight loss any good but at least I know I can handle biscuits now without any issue.