Moving from Low Carb to Higher levels

[peacetrain]

I'm interested in what Andrew and others have to say because it won't be very long before I have to re-think my own diet. I am fast approaching my goal weight, and once I do I don't want to keep losing, nor do I want to gain. I am struggling to work out how to do this without increasing my BS levels.

I've been thinking about that too. But I fear increasing carbs because I don't want the old addiction to return. Like Andbreathe, I have stuck to my regime even through Christmas and other celebrations. I don't want anything to break the spell I'm under lol


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[cold ethyl]

I'm glad you use the word addiction, because that is what I feel was true of my relationship with bread, pasta , potatoes etc. I could easily eat a mansized bowl of pasta and then ten minutes later be at the french stick in the pantry. I'm not saying never, but I think it might be like giving a recovering alcoholic free range in a pub to say I can have them every day.

 

[paulins]

im sorry i couldnt help myself, i wont look anymore

Andy12345 - yes, keep looking and keep posting. I am learning so much from these exchanges, and I don't think it matters in the end whether we all agree or not. We are intelligent people who can make up our own minds about what works for us. What is important is to hear about each others' experiences and then feel we are in a position to use them to inform our own decisions. I am SO SO sick of vegetables, and of being on this Newcastle diet. I want to be able to eat a more varied diet without pushing up my BS levels and undoing all the good work I've done since the end of January. But at the moment I am like JustBreathe - won't cheat at all until I am at my target weight and then I'll try to introduce a little more variety. So, keep reading, posting, and helping us.

 

[julifriend]

I'm interested in what Andrew and others have to say because it won't be very long before I have to re-think my own diet. I am fast approaching my goal weight, and once I do I don't want to keep losing, nor do I want to gain. I am struggling to work out how to do this without increasing my BS levels.

I'm already in that position. I was never overweight as such but keeping a strict control of what I eat has caused me to drop to the very bottom end of the BMI range for my age and height. And even though I now eat the amount of calories many online calculators say I should eat my weight continues to drop, albeit very slowly now. I need to adjust what I'm eating without causing a rise in my BG levels but it's difficult to work out exactly what to do.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I'm already in that position. I was never overweight as such but keeping a strict control of what I eat has caused me to drop to the very bottom end of the BMI range for my age and height. And even though I now eat the amount of calories many online calculators say I should eat my weight continues to drop, albeit very slowly now. I need to adjust what I'm eating without causing a rise in my BG levels but it's difficult to work out exactly what to do.

I've been thinking about that too. But I fear increasing carbs because I don't want the old addiction to return. Like Andbreathe, I have stuck to my regime even through Christmas and other celebrations. I don't want anything to break the spell I'm under lol
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I don't want to increase carbs because of my BS levels, which aren't low enough for me yet, so have no idea what to do for the best. I'm not addicted to them so don't have that fear. Difficult, isn't it! I will start a thread about it in a week or two unless someone beats me to it!

 

[andcol]

Very interesting posts guys and I am glad you are all following. For your info I am at the moment losing only about a pound a week and still have 18 pounds to go to my target so do not really have room in my diet unless I drop out some fat and protein (some of my nuts).

@Andy12345 don't stop posting, questioning and demanding. It is good that you do and I understand your worries. You must remember I am pretty sure I can only succeed in this due to my low calorie diet I followed and the huge weight loss to date (1/4 of my original weight has been flushed/sweated out of my system). I am pretty sure this has kick started my system


My diet at the moment (for your interest is as follows)
Breakfast: 30g ready brek (or a weetabix)
Lunch: chicken sandwich (one slice of bergen), very large handful of raw carrot battons, raspberries (handful), blueberries (handful), apple, handful of hazelnuts, handful or almonds, square of chocolate, small handful dried fruit - sometimes add a crumpet (weekend only) and peanuts (more often than I should). I have added dates in as of today
Dinner: varies but is now generally food that the family eat, eg, fish (battered or breaded) and chips, pie and chips, shepherds pie, roast dinners, chilli con carni, etc. I often have ice cream, tarts, all sorts for pudding as well. I do try and keep the chips to just a handful.

I still exercise a lot before breakfast. After lunch, a walk at work, and then treadmill after dinner.

I will try and stay stable on this diet (losing a pound a week) and will keep you all informed how it continues - as you see quite carby now and not insignificant

As you can see from the graph below my fastings, daily and weekly averages have all stayed stable and have actually got better from about the end of march. So yes I am not doing this blind and I am keeping a close eye on myself.



edit: **** I can't spell

 

[peacetrain]

I'm glad you use the word addiction, because that is what I feel was true of my relationship with bread, pasta , potatoes etc. I could easily eat a mansized bowl of pasta and then ten minutes later be at the french stick in the pantry. I'm not saying never, but I think it might be like giving a recovering alcoholic free range in a pub to say I can have them every day.

And that's the problem with food addiction or compulsive eating disorder, food is necessary to live and can't be avoided.

I've said before, the T2 diagnosis turned my life around.


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[Indy51]

I'm interested in what Andrew and others have to say because it won't be very long before I have to re-think my own diet. I am fast approaching my goal weight, and once I do I don't want to keep losing, nor do I want to gain. I am struggling to work out how to do this without increasing my BS levels.

Unless you're starving yourself or have endocrine issues, once you attain the weight your body thinks is ideal (which in my case isn't the weight my mind agrees is ideal!), it's highly unlikely that you'll go on losing weight. I've been trying (without success) to get below my current weight for nearly two years without much success - I can do it for a short while, but then my body pushes it back up and I just hover around the same weight, going up or down by 1-2 kgs. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the "set point" theory of weight control is more valid than calories-in/calories-out.

 

[Positive]

Happy with everybody's input, please be free to comment.
I have lost over 8 kgs (did ND for twice 10 days each time, juicing etc) since March. Ideally I should loose 2 more kgs. I have stop all juices (stopped long time back) and all sweets and carb like chips, bread pasta (since diagnosis), I want to introduce some carbs back while doing exercises so I could enjoy bit of carb without BS spiking up. So now I am ready to experiment. Since my BS went up two days back I been on a restricted diet yesterday and today my BS is around 90 now. I will try tomorrow some carb and exercise. I want to know if my pancreas ready to kick start (loosing that weight would help??) if it does happy otherwise low carb for me for rest of my life. I have been eating lot of cakes and muffins (I used to make them for my two kids, stopped it now), when I start eating I could not stop at one, That's how I got here. And I am still scared to try those as do not want old habits creeping back. I used to love Tesco hot tiger bread or french stick with anchor butter. I am really scared to put back my weight/BS complications so will keep away from them.
When I joined I read the successful stories and Andrew's story stuck to a cord with me. I analysed his spread sheet (April) what he has been doing and ever so thankful for the information. (his wife BS eating the same meal as I do not have a willing participant try that). I know i am lacking is the exercises. I could not do while on a diets. I use his management app to record my data. I think I have not accepted this is me yet -with 'Diabetes'.
I also read lot of articles, Type 2 diabetes beta cells can be revitalised (may be not the correct term) and liver can be restored to help pancreas. Read Sandra Caboot's liver cleansing diet. Healthy liver help pancreas to work better. (dark green vegetables which has lot of potassium helps- mushroom, kale, spirulina etc) unless we try we do not know what works and what does not. I learnt a lot from other members experiences. While I keep sugar in a closed jar I want try everyday carbs and how much grams I could comfortably eat.

 

[Indy51]

Happy with everybody's input, please be free to comment.
I have lost over 8 kgs (did ND for twice 10 days each time, juicing etc) since March. Ideally I should loose 2 more kgs. I have stop all juices (stopped long time back) and all sweets and carb like chips, bread pasta (since diagnosis), I want to introduce some carbs back while doing exercises so I could enjoy bit of carb without BS spiking up. So now I am ready to experiment. Since my BS went up two days back I been on a restricted diet yesterday and today my BS is around 90 now. I will try tomorrow some carb and exercise. I want to know if my pancreas ready to kick start (loosing that weight would help??) if it does happy otherwise low carb for me for rest of my life. I have been eating lot of cakes and muffins (I used to make them for my two kids, stopped it now), when I start eating I could not stop at one, That's how I got here. And I am still scared to try those as do not want old habits creeping back. I used to love Tesco hot tiger bread or french stick with anchor butter. I am really scared to put back my weight/BS complications so will keep away from them.
When I joined I read the successful stories and Andrew's story stuck to a cord with me. I analysed his spread sheet (April) what he has been doing and ever so thankful for the information. (his wife BS eating the same meal as I do not have a willing participant try that). I know i am lacking is the exercises. I could not do while on a diets. I use his management app to record my data. I think I have not accepted this is me yet -with 'Diabetes'.
I also read lot of articles, Type 2 diabetes beta cells can be revitalised (may be not the correct term) and liver can be restored to help pancreas. Read Sandra Caboot's liver cleansing diet. Healthy liver help pancreas to work better. (dark green vegetables which has lot of potassium helps- mushroom, kale, spirulina etc) unless we try we do not know what works and what does not. I learnt a lot from other members experiences. While I keep sugar in a closed jar I want try everyday carbs and how much grams I could comfortably eat.

One of the higher carb vegetables that a lot of people (especially the Paleo crossfitters) recommend is sweet potato and it's really easy to control the quantities to increase by using it. I doubt if it will trigger bingeing behaviour in the same way that processed carbs are likely to do it given your past experiences.

 

[AndBreathe]

@Southport GP - it would be excellent to have some input to this thread, relating to your programme participants, moving forward. How have those who reached both blood and weight targets proceeded into their longer term management? And indeed, generally how have participants moved on? Have they maintained their LCHF lifestyle in toto, or modified their approach at all?

The objective of asking for your feedback is to bring an additional context and rounding to this discussion, as opposed to seeking support for any viewpoint.

I think there is quite a bit of interest in this thread, but only maybe a fewer of the "louder" voices participating.

Thanks, in anticipation.

 

[Positive]

Sweet potato is a good idea, I touched it at Tesco today but did not buy, not so sure yet as it does have lot of sugar too. I will buy the bread others are recommending in Morrisons.
I have been watching few videos in you tube by Neal Barnard about cure for diabetes. His recommendation is to go low fat - vegan. Not so sure about it as he recommend lot of carbs too. He thinks culprit is fat. Got confused there a bit. Back to my LCHF for few days, morning few blueberries and few rasberries at the moment.

 

[Positive]

I had a fairy cake today after 1 hour BS was 9.6, after 2 and half hour later it was 5.7. It was high initially but was reduced fairly ok. Just wanted to see the effect on BS. I was pleased with that. I have reduced my fat intake now. I introduced kale, a carrot , 2" cucumber and half inch ginger juice in the morning plus 5g spirulina powder. Hour later few blueberries and raspberries.
I realised if I am introducing carbs I must reduce my fat intake also reduce protein too. The other day my BS 9.6 after 3 hours was due to fat after burning off carbs. I did not know how to change over to increasing carb diet. I am comfortable with HF diet as I feel satisfied and comfortable with it. And BS was well controlled. So once in a while having carb shoot my BS few times. I lost of on it too.
For lunch I had veg soup and half ( May be less than half ) a wrap -20g precisely, after one hour 6.3
During ND diet no fat and protein or dairy for 2 months. So all cells must be healthy and skinny. Since I have been having high fat diet, I will reduce my fat intake to a minimum and introduce lot of veg, some nuts and carbs for 2 months. Most probably do Sandra Cabot's liver cleansing diet for 2 months. My cholesterol was 5.1, must be higher now. I have seen a demonstration by a professor on diabetes that if fat is around cells that they do not respond to insulin. Since I was on a HF diet my cells must be full of fat??? So in T2 diabetes one of the reasons is cells not responding to insulin because of fat and If cells are produced every 3 months and if I reduce my fat intake I should see some changes- or is it that simple??
I must be repeating some stuff here. I am thinking loud.
LCHF works on BS controlling but one does not know if one can eat carbs or not. Lot of researches says T2 is reversible and all down to life style unless of cause pancreas not producing insulin adequately.
Time will tell. Meanwhile I will keep experimenting.

 

[andcol]

I would consider 9.6 a little too high for me and would cause an instant period of exercise. Coming down to 5.7 is pretty good so you just have to watch the spikes and flatten them out a little. Try eating 1/2 of one next time and see what happens. It is good that your body did seem to stop you going over 10 which is great though.

Fat in your body doesnt have a direct correlation to fat intake and is related to a combination of fat and carb excess. I think you need the carb to force the body to store the fats (very simplistic).

 

[Pollylocks]

@Southport GP - it would be excellent to have some input to this thread, relating to your programme participants, moving forward. How have those who reached both blood and weight targets proceeded into their longer term management? And indeed, generally how have participants moved on? Have they maintained their LCHF lifestyle in toto, or modified their approach at all?

The objective of asking for your feedback is to bring an additional context and rounding to this discussion, as opposed to seeking support for any viewpoint.

I think there is quite a bit of interest in this thread, but only maybe a fewer of the "louder" voices participating.

Thanks, in anticipation.

...I think you're right AndBreathe, have been looking at it since last night and I'm sure many more are, I find it very interesting...I only starting participating in this forum a couple of months ago, was already low carbing but not LCHF....I then embraced that but I find myself not comfortable with the HF part of it the last few days, maybe its inbuilt, don't know, so although I'm still low carbing I'm not going to go 'low fat', like I was before I joined, I just won't watch my fat content too much, middle of the road I guess...its been so interesting to hear other people's views and journeys..

....Andrew, am I being thick, I don't quite understand why you're introducing more carbs from all you'e said ~ is it so that when you've reached your goal weight, they would need to be upped anyway to maintain your weight perhaps, or you just miss carbs like many of us and that's why you're gradually re-introducing them...??

...You're doing fantastically well in finding out what's right for you, so thorough, wish I were so disciplined!....we're all individual in how we react to different foods but it sounds like you're on your way...good luck!

 

[andcol]

I have to increase my energy intake to stop losing weight so started on this road to slow down the rapid loss to 2 lb a week and now 1 lb. I could have increased my fats but -
1. I find I quite like to be able to have carbs when I want so would like them in my life
2. I have never embraced the HF part either. Didn't need to really as I went low carb and that brought my calorie intake down and just added nuts and a few berries. I still think the jury is out on the HF (saturated) for me because there was a lot of CVD when we used to have HF diets

So partially lifestyle and partially don't want to increase fats.

 

[Pollylocks]

..Thanks, was interested and curious of course!

 

[dawnmc]

I agree with Indy about 'set point'. If calories in calories out worked, more of us would be slim. A vegan diet can be bad for the teeth too, particularly for diabetics (who can have problems with teeth), they aren't getting right level of nutrients to protect enamel, also green juices can affect the enamel too.

 

[paulins]

I agree with Indy about 'set point'. If calories in calories out worked, more of us would be slim. A vegan diet can be bad for the teeth too, particularly for diabetics (who can have problems with teeth), they aren't getting right level of nutrients to protect enamel, also green juices can affect the enamel too.

Interesting. I was at the dentist this morning and he said my teeth were in VG condition, so the Newcastle diet with the vitamin supplements I take must be OK.

 

[Positive]

With vegan diet one has to take supplements.
I can not be a vegan for a long time. I crave for other meat cheese carbs etc. Eventually looking to find a balance diet to suit me with good BS levels.
This morning opted for a Weetabix 20g after one hour 9.7, on the bike one hour taking 3 breaks BS after 2hrs 6, after 3 hours 5.4.
I was very hungry at lunch, had a slice of brown bread, egg, 12g butter and 45g cream cheese.
I meant to have soup and half slice of bread. Struggling to to change over.
Cant start liver cleansing diet have to wait for livatone tablet coming from America.
My BS this morning was 5.8 which is high and it has been going up everyday one point. When its high I go VLCHF to bring it down. It works.