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My letter to DUK in response to complaints on this forum abo

Osidge said:
John

Have I understood you correctly - you are leading a DUK group but will not support DUK? Why not set up your own group?

Doug
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Yes - that's right! I'm doing it because I've been asked to do it by the present Chairman. Membership of DUK isn't a requirement to attend a DUK Support Group.

Things might work out that I might set up a separate group later - but not for the time being.
 
Although DUK dietary advice is not good. their support groups are. They do a lot to help people meet others in the same situation, but can't seem to pluck up the courage to look at diet properly
Hana
 
hanadr said:
UPB
I don't think my letter is particularly rude and since It's about the 50th one I've sent them, I know all their standard responses. I am a member of DUK and the people I meet fairly often all know what I eat, because they provide me with lunch about once every 2 months or so and they know my HbA1c and they know what the maority of people get. I have to be firm with them to get any kind of response
Hana
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Hyperbole aside, no matter how many letters you've sent, you're asking... or now it sounds more like demanding that they adopt a minority viewpoint and enforce it on a majority.

Am I the only one who sees that they're just NEVER going to do that?

And demeaning their research and standpoint just because it conflicts with yours isn't going to win you any friends. If I'd recieved that email, I know I sure as hell wouldn't reply to it. Why should they subject themselves to abuse just to satisfy your need to rage against the machine?

Ian's post indicates replies that people recieve are professional and courtious - two things your email wasn't. I'm trying to help here. When trying to convice others of a viewpoint that contradicts their own, insulting them and their position is pretty much the absolute worst thing you can do.

Maybe something to think about?
 
How to get up noses in one easy lesson:

"Your dietary advice is rubbish".

Says it all really. There is a bit more to life as a diabetic than simply getting and maintaining a low Bg level - and while lots of us have achieved that goal its not always been done by the engineering approach of Dr B.

UPB - you are not alone, but many of us choose to ignore rantings from the self proclaimed intelligentsia.
 
Useless Pretty Boy said:
Ian's post indicates replies that people recieve are professional and courtious - two things your email wasn't. I'm trying to help here. When trying to convice others of a viewpoint that contradicts their own, insulting them and their position is pretty much the absolute worst thing you can do.

Maybe something to think about?
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Trouble is, research is so often devised to prove a point, as it has to be. I speak from a lifetime of R&D. You have to isolate variables, & test how they affect the result being investigated, while being aware of surprising results.

Consider a simple & straightforward experiment:
e.g. cut calories by (i) carbs (ii) fat, (iii) control group, & assess weight loss over 3 months.
Can those results be extrapolated to a range of health conditions?
And can other measurements than weight be included?
e.g. B Sugar; BP; mental performance; time to run 100 m; cholesterol; etc.
then add in existing health conditions -diabetes; heart problems; arthritis, etc.
Do the subjects have subjective experiences?

Soon the problems of organisation & compliance & honesty (!) become apparent.

It seems that the extrapolation of results is often unjustified, yet it is done, & accepted as valid because it is based on research. That is what we are fighting.

I shall be at DUK this Saturday, with Hana, so we will see.... I've had to tell I won't eat the sandwiches they provide for lunch as I am diabetic.
=================
The founder of the company I worked for was a development chemist in the 1930s. One morning he noticed in his waste paper bin a piece of paper that glowed white in window light. He reviewed what he had done the previous day, & sold a formula for the first optical laundry whitener to Lever Bros :!:
 
Two very good points from UPB and TSP…

I would agree because the over all tone of the letter being of demeaning and condescending makes it very rude indeed and unprofessional…

TSP has made a comment concerning Bernstein’s engineering approach to diabetic control… But it does help to show the difference between the two different sides of advice and highlights what a lot of people seem to miss from these debates or arguments…


DUK, advice maintains the individual ‘right of choice’ it gives the diabetic information that enables and maintains there ‘right’ to choose what there dietary menu plan… Based on an common consensus of an ‘healthy balanced diet’ it gives the daily recommended amounts, but does inform that these are only guidelines and information should be individualised to suit the individual and there chosen lifestyle…

Where as Bernstein actually impinges on every individuals human right ‘right’ to choose, as a doctor he is prescribing not only medication required to treat the physical medical diabetic condition, he is also prescribing and taking away my right to choose types of foods that I may or may not eat, he is taking my right to choose quantities of particular foods I may eat at meals as he has restricted carbs, to 6g, 12g, 12g, per meal… no more and no less…

Bernstein exercised his right, to determine how he controlled his diabetes to choose all aspects of his lifestyle including the foods he chooses to eat… Yet he sees fit to take these basic rights away from me!
 
Jopar,

We are free to choose to follow Bernstein - he does not take away our rights to what we choose to eat. Only people who have reason to question the DUK/NHS advice would consult him anyway.

OTOH DUK by questionable interpretation of research reports (& scare stories) provide authoritative information used by Drs, dietitians & nurses to advise us, so taking away our freedom to consider other diabetes diets. I did NOT feel free to reject their advice, until I suffered the complications they predict. Only then did I find the advice by members of this forum to reduce carb intake. By rejecting the DUK/NHS authoritative opinion my health & mobility have been restored.
 
Good point, IanD - most people only find an effective way to control the disease AFTER all other methods have failed.
 
Hi Jopar

Where as Bernstein actually impinges on every individuals human right ‘right’ to choose, as a doctor he is prescribing not only medication required to treat the physical medical diabetic condition, he is also prescribing and taking away my right to choose types of foods that I may or may not eat, he is taking my right to choose quantities of particular foods I may eat at meals as he has restricted carbs, to 6g, 12g, 12g, per meal… no more and no less…

Bernstein exercised his right, to determine how he controlled his diabetes to choose all aspects of his lifestyle including the foods he chooses to eat… Yet he sees fit to take these basic rights away from me!
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That's very strange until I found this forum I never even knew about Dr Bernstein, and yet he's been impinging my human rights... :shock: When I was first diagnosed the only advice I got was follow DUK guidelines, from my DSN and of course Desmonds no alternatives were mentioned or even implied...

I was fortunate enough to be given the means to test, that my own curiosity and the ability to to access the internet put me on the right track... Now I am reading more and more about the newly diagnosed being denied the opportunity to test, and having to rely solely on a HbA1c test as the only means of knowing what the effects of following the DUK guidelines are...and of course they will never see the potentially dangerous blood glucose spikes caused by the starchy carbs...Now that is indeed impinging human rights...

As forum members we account for a tiny percentage of Diabetics, so how many are blindly following these DUK guidelines and are being told that they are non compliant with the diet, or the only way forward is ever increasing medications to control their BG...

This is another excerpt form DUK guidelines, as a T2 I find any breakfast cereal sends my BG into double figures and I'm not the only one, and yet DUK tell us that all cereals are Fine... :? :? :?

All breakfast cereals are fine. More filling choices, like porridge
and All-Bran or fruit and fibre, will see you through the morning.
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https://www.diabetes.org.uk/upload/9831 ... pe%202.pdf

Kind Regards
Graham
 
Hi Everyone,
I have been reading throught the posts about carbohydrates, I have been insulin diabetic about 5years and still having problems with hypos hypers I feel my diet is mainly carbs (maybe this is why after 5yrs still having problems) When first diagnosed I did not eat till lunchtime was advised to have a weetabix and 2 digestive in the morning supper time I did not eat either advised to have toast or t biscuits I have stuck rigidly to this for 5yrs breakfast 9am lunch 12-1 dinner 5pm supper 9pm. I am not overweight but I am on cholestral tablets and feel I have not got good control of my diabetes.
If I do not have enough carbs I hypo, I am going to try and re educate myself by taking less carbs and will cut back on the insulin one meal at a time to see if this helps. My yearly check up is not till end of December.
I hope what have written makes sense, I don't want to offend anyone as some people are for carbs.I just want to try something else as after 5years I believe I should have better control

:? Senga
 
hi ian

Sorry I havent pm you - been crazy few days!

Anecdoatal info will get you no where - unless it is part of a study they will not use it. It would be difficult to carry out a study retrospectively with any of you I think.

There are several points I think they need to address

1) Ditch the sugar - that is sending the wrong message
2) They cannot give individual advice so they are just giving a range - it works for some
3) they are not consistent in portion sizes of anything
4) their meal plans need ditching
5) more effort on testing

Maybe they should be looking at what diabetes units are actually doing - there is alot of carb reduction and counting going on - this forum does not apear to reflect what i see in practice.
Get then to fund some more research.

I do not want to sound negative but a few letters and voices will have no impact I am afraid - its fact they need. The thing is the people on here who are eating carbs will counteract what you are saying.

allyx
 
Like Graham I cant tolerate carbs for breakfast, I need 7 or 8 units of insulin just to cover the 6g of carbs in half a grapefruit. I go into double figures with any cereal.

Unlike Graham :D I can eat a sandwich and an apple for lunch and only need 3 units of insulin and chips, rice, pasta, or potatoes etc. with my evening meal for which I only need 3 or 4 units of insulin (average).

Oh and I nearly forgot, my latest HB A1c was 5.1% :D

Perhaps this proves we are all different eh? :|
 
Ally
thanks I'll copy that and add it to my file, which I'm taking
Hana
 
Sid
Insulin users do have more freedom
Hana
 
hanadr said:
Sid
Insulin users do have more freedom
Hana
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Yes I guess I do, but lets not forget that insulin is prone to make one put on weight but I have lost almost 4 stone despite my insulin and at the same time have reduced my insulin from 48 units a day in March to 19 units a day(yesterday). Actually my weight loss has slowed down a lot since I reduced my insulin :?

The point I was making is that whilst I can not tolerate carbs for breakfast (like Graham)I can tolerate them at lunch and diner*, others may not be able to regardless of whether or not they are on insulin. I repeat, we are all different.

It sounds like you think I just eat what ever I want and jack up a few more units of insulin to cover it, I can assure you that is not the case.

*BTW when I say I can eat rice, chips, potatoes etc, Portion size is paramount, I am not talking about a plateful of rice just a couple of tablespoons, but I still eat rice. Moderation is key for my diabetes control.

Do you think if I low carb'd I would need less insulin at breakfast? I am only eating 6g of carbs as it is :lol:
 
graham64 said:
....................This is another excerpt form DUK guidelines, as a T2 I find any breakfast cereal sends my BG into double figures and I'm not the only one, and yet DUK tell us that all cereals are Fine... :? :? :?

All breakfast cereals are fine. More filling choices, like porridge
and All-Bran or fruit and fibre, will see you through the morning.
Click to expand...

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/upload/9831 ... pe%202.pdf
Click to expand...
No you aren't the only one Graham. Cereals do that to me too! Cutting out cereals almost all of the time had a massive effect in lowering my blood glucose levels.
 
Sid Bonkers said:
..................The point I was making is that whilst I can not tolerate carbs for breakfast (like Graham)I can tolerate them at lunch and diner................
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Yes Sid - that is exactly how it is for me too.

However, these days, I still try to avoid starchy carbohydrate at lunchtime too. I generally eat a salad for lunch.

Well done once again on the latest HbA1c - a massive improvement!

John
 
Sid Bonkers said:
*BTW when I say I can eat rice, chips, potatoes etc, Portion size is paramount, I am not talking about a plateful of rice just a couple of tablespoons, but I still eat rice. Moderation is key for my diabetes control.

Do you think if I low carb'd I would need less insulin at breakfast? I am only eating 6g of carbs as it is :lol:
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Hi Sid,
Agree with Portion size that's how I ended up Low Carbing :D , I reduced the portion of carbs according to readings I got from my meter. That brought about a different problem were you have to make sure you don't gain weight, I need a high calorie diet just to maintain mine :shock: . I needed to replace the cals I got from the starchy carbs as I was in danger of becoming a male version of Twiggy, and that would put me at risk in high winds :lol: :lol: .
Following a consultation with my dietician I'm now on a High fat diet :P , I've not gained much weight (which is rather strange seeing the Fat makes you Fat theory that abounds), but have at least stabilised it. Yep Portion size is paramount but in my case only for the starchy carbs and Low Fat products, as for the rest the eatwell plate is too small :roll: :roll: .

BTW you do Low Carb at breakfast :D

Well done with your HbA1c
Regards
Graham
 
wallycorker said:
[quote="graham64]........................BTW you do Low Carb at breakfast :D..............
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Both Sid and me - the both of us!!!![/quote][/quote]

Well on my reckoning John that makes three of us :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers
Graham
 
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