• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

CherryAA said:
I agree entirely that its ropey, Having said that - he's an active guy, the foods did come out at around 65% fat overall so on the surface it "looked "like the LCHF he has now read a lot about. His doctor told him sardines were a good thing so he had no idea what he was doing was too much.

I think it illustrates how easy it is to slightly miss the point as to what LCHF means in practice. and how easy it is to end up with more om 6 in your diet than you thought you were.
Click to expand...
If I drank that amount of oil, I'd feel pretty hopeless too. No need for superficial analysis and fancy graphs @CherryAA.
 
DCUKMod said:
Of course, it could be nothing like I experienced, but 2 cans of fish with all the oil is a pretty heavy weight dose. If he had already hade a bit of a dodgy system anyway, he might just have tripped from a colon range of "just about coping" to "not coping so well right now".

Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Yes thanks - and certainly your thoughts are worth passing onto him. I think for most foods, its easy for people to go to an extreme thinking if x is good then more of x must be better.
 
GrantGam said:
If I drank that amount of oil, I'd feel pretty hopeless too. No need for superficial analysis and fancy graphs @CherryAA.
Click to expand...

I don't recall doing a fancy graph on the subject. If you think the analysis is superficial, you are quite welcome to ignore it and indeed the entire thread :)

My point we merely that omega 6 oils are everywhere, even in places you might least expect - e.g. tinned fatty fish.
 
Day 14 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.3 kg )
Waist size 86.5 cm (starting 94 cm)

0.3 kg off yesterday bp 122/76 . average BG yesterday 5.4 , overnight average today 4.9 morning blood ketones 1.2 Ketonix 11 ppm
A bit of a kerfuffle yesterday interrupted dinner, so I ended up only eating one of my two courses . so 1100 calories total .
62% fat, Om 2 3.4g. Om 6 2.4g . Then went to a party and had no trouble at all not drinking or eating a bite of the food despite possible 50 different attempts to offer it to me.

I love the binary decision process - it seems to bolster willpower from nowhere .I have never been able to avoid - "just a tiny bit " before. If that is all this one meal a day routine achieves for, it will have been worth ist weight in gold.
 
Last edited:
I had gone up 2 pounds and stayed there for 2 days. Both those days I did not have a liver dump and stayed low and flat all day. The preceding 2 meals were very veg heavy with a bit of dark meat turkey and a lot of butter. Last night I had a very beef heavy shepherds pie made with cauliflower mash. Today I am back down a pound but my FBG was 6.7. It seems I can't have both low fasting numbers and weight loss at the same time. I will keep plugging away at this and see what happens.
 
chalup said:
I had gone up 2 pounds and stayed there for 2 days. Both those days I did not have a liver dump and stayed low and flat all day. The preceding 2 meals were very veg heavy with a bit of dark meat turkey and a lot of butter. Last night I had a very beef heavy shepherds pie made with cauliflower mash. Today I am back down a pound but my FBG was 6.7. It seems I can't have both low fasting numbers and weight loss at the same time. I will keep plugging away at this and see what happens.
Click to expand...

I agree that FBG does seem to go up a bit, I personally am heavily invested in the idea that if the weight comes down , it will be easy to fix the FBG again through dietary choices later because I can already do that, so as long as the process is keeping me within a reasonable range I'm ok with it. I know from the ND thread that a lot of the participants on that are getting higher blood glucose levels than they would on their ordinary LCHF diets - so if there if Prof Taylor is right and the same thing is happening to me on this diet which is also producing fairly rapid weight loss , then I'm happy to stick with it for now.
 
In Denmark we are educated not to eat more than two cans of anything in a tin can a week because health experts claim there is some kind of poisonous chemical in tin cans . I hope your friend is not slowly building up a chemical soup inside that irritates his intestines. Well just a suggestion
And yes yes your journey is really inspirering Cherry
 
Yes, once the weight is off the plan for me is to go back to my regular VLC which keeps my sugars good and I don't gain weight even if I don't lose it. My last couple A1c's have been 5.5 so I am happy with that. I am having leftover shepherds pie today and again tomorrow lol. I think I will add a pat of butter as it is a bit lower in fat than ideal and see what happens tomorrow.
 
Freema said:
In Denmark we are educated not to eat more than two cans of anything in a tin can a week because health experts claim there is some kind of poisonous chemical in tin cans . I hope your friend is not slowly building up a chemical soup inside that irritates his intestines. Well just a suggestion
And yes yes your journey is really inspiring Cherry
Click to expand...

Two tins a week sounds like a good limit ! I think I might find it hard to pursuade him that far - still baby steps . I've just been through my own cupboards again and found only the one can for careful drainage - John West Mackerel in Sunflower oil - I must be learning:)
 
Day 15 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.3 kg )
Waist size 86.5 cm (starting 94 cm)

No change in weight, BP 122/76, average BS yesterday 5.2mmol, overnight average today 4.8 mmol.
Morning ketones 1.4 , ketonix 4.5

Only 1100 calories yesterday as well . One thing I noticed on both these low calories days is that I have not had huge ketone reactions from the ketonix. When I ate about 1600 calories my ketone readings that evening were extraordinary -upto 52 ppm, over the last two days its been a lot lower at around 14ppm which is similar to the levels the fasting guys mention.

I have also been re- reading "Fat Chance" by Dr Robert Lustig. For those sceptical about the likelihood that they have very high fasting insulin, it helps explain the situation very clearly . He discusses at length the reasons why too much circulating insulin drives so many things in reasonably understandable format for a layman,
For those wanting to lose weight he lists - get the insulin down as the main priority ( page 231)
Dr Lustig is also of the view that weight loss will not occur for long if one eats less than your basal metabolic rate - because that is where you can optimise all the other hormones too. For me that is about 1550 calories which is where the magic lasagn kicked in so I am going to increase back to to 1550 for a couple of days and see what happens.

A nutrient dense meal.
I bought a packet of oxtail from the butcher - ( 1kg pack including bones) . browned with a little butter, then simmered in a pan of water for about 6 hrs. At that stage the meat falls off. and the stock has reduced to a couple of hundred ml maximum . I then simmered the bones for another few hours until they were totally bleached, and reduce the resulting stock for use as necessary to thin dishes.

The meat looks a little like the old canned stewing steak! The following day I used the fat from the steak - which had separated and look like white lard, to fry an onion, mushroom and tomato , adding the broth and the meat .with a bit of chilli,garlic salt and pepper . One third serving of that gives 600 calories and 60% of daily nutrients. As importantly -it tastes amazing!

One thing I have noticed for me personally is that my blood sugars seem to respond better to meat than fish dishes. I think that might be something to do with how nutrient dense it is.

I've broken out my " stand up " desk again - though cannot find the " thingy " that gets the rolling road started as yet lol (probably as well as I keep falling off ) and I'm off for a swim - happy days and happy weekend folks!
 
Freema said:
In Denmark we are educated not to eat more than two cans of anything in a tin can a week because health experts claim there is some kind of poisonous chemical in tin cans . I hope your friend is not slowly building up a chemical soup inside that irritates his intestines. Well just a suggestion
And yes yes your journey is really inspirering Cherry
Click to expand...
Any idea what that poisonous chemical might be?
 
CherryAA said:
Day 15 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.3 kg )
Waist size 86.5 cm (starting 94 cm)

No change in weight, BP 122/76, average BS yesterday 5.2mmol, overnight average today 4.8 mmol.
Morning ketones 1.4 , ketonix 4.5

Only 1100 calories yesterday as well . One thing I noticed on both these low calories days is that I have not had huge ketone reactions from the ketonix. When I ate about 1600 calories my ketone readings that evening were extraordinary -upto 52 ppm, over the last two days its been a lot lower at around 14ppm which is similar to the levels the fasting guys mention.

I have also been re- reading "Fat Chance" by Dr Robert Lustig. For those sceptical about the likelihood that they have very high fasting insulin, it helps explain the situation very clearly . He discusses at length the reasons why too much circulating insulin drives so many things in reasonably understandable format for a layman,
For those wanting to lose weight he lists - get the insulin down as the main priority ( page 231)
Dr Lustig is also of the view that weight loss will not occur for long if one eats less than your basal metabolic rate - because that is where you can optimise all the other hormones too. For me that is about 1550 calories which is where the magic lasagn kicked in so I am going to increase back to to 1550 for a couple of days and see what happens.

A nutrient dense meal.
I bought a packet of oxtail from the butcher - ( 1kg pack including bones) . browned with a little butter, then simmered in a pan of water for about 6 hrs. At that stage the meat falls off. and the stock has reduced to a couple of hundred ml maximum . I then simmered the bones for another few hours until they were totally bleached, and reduce the resulting stock for use as necessary to thin dishes.

The meat looks a little like the old canned stewing steak! The following day I used the fat from the steak - which had separated and look like white lard, to fry an onion, mushroom and tomato , adding the broth and the meat .with a bit of chilli,garlic salt and pepper . One third serving of that gives 600 calories and 60% of daily nutrients. As importantly -it tastes amazing!

One thing I have noticed for me personally is that my blood sugars seem to respond better to meat than fish dishes. I think that might be something to do with how nutrient dense it is.

I've broken out my " stand up " desk again - though cannot find the " thingy " that gets the rolling road started as yet lol (probably as well as I keep falling off ) and I'm off for a swim - happy days and happy weekend folks!
Click to expand...
Ready????? Fish is higher on the II !
Lowest I think is egg, then poultry, then beef/ lamb, the the highest is fish.

I'm still eating my fish!
 
My tuna and salmon are the only canned food I eat and they're both in BPA free cans but I've read they just use other nasty chemicals instead.

A few months ago I got a NASTY piece of fresh king salmon but it was so nasty I haven't been able to eat it again and I love my tuna. It's always Wild Planet albacore and they are a very reputable company.
 
 
Last edited:
Freema said:
I think it is called Bisphenol A, and is a hormone disturbing chemical used on the inside of tin cans used to contain foods


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982203001891


https://academic.oup.com/endo/article-lookup/doi/10.1210/en.2003-1174

shortened to the letters : BPA, BPS, BPB and DEHP

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...canned-foods-still-contain-dangerous-chemical

http://www.seattleorganicrestaurants.com/vegan-whole-foods/avoid-canned-food/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/nutrition/does-canned-food-cause-cancer/
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it starts right from the point of germination, conception etc of whatever food we are talking about. Man has done a whole bunch of unspeakable things to it, in the misguided belief that we were somehow able to manipulate nature for our own ends in timescales totally distanced from genetic reality. It turns out we really can't, so the further you can get back down the chain of distortion the better. In the end no-one can escape what has been done to our food supply but we can at least try to mitigate it individually.
 
Day 15 over. 1600 calories today 61% fat, om 3 5g, om 6 4.6, fiber 18.1g, (target 20) carbs 38g ketones post meal 1.7mmol 97% daily nutrients (bit low on sodium and vit e)

Managed an hours swim, also tried out HIT in the pool , its easier to do proper squats when you care less if you fall over, though my thighs are now on fire !

I think I can honestly say that this is the first time in my life I have ever actually managed to do what I set out to do for 15 whole days consecutively. Whether I am actually doing any good who knows but at least I'm sticking to my grand plan, even f I can't quite recall why I chose to do some of it!
 
Day 16 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 84.4 kg )
Waist size 86.0 cm (starting 94 cm)

Weight slightly up0.1g, but Bp 106/76 ( won't take the drugs until it increases as this is too low for drugs) and waist definitely another 05cm down ( maybe more) . blood ketones 0.7 Ketonix 7.4 ppm ,average glucose yesterday 5.5 mmol , overnight average 5.2 mmol

I have lost. 7kg since began this and I think practically all of that has come off my midriff and waist. My arms and legs do not seem to be much smaller - but oh my god ! my waist! . I put a swimsuit on yesterday and I swear to God my shape is starting to resemble Joan off Madmen! --what a pity its happened when at 60 not 35:) I coulda been a star !

My overall blood sugars seem to have gone up a little , however I did a home Hba1C yesterday which gave a reading of 42., the same as before 6 weeks ago I am a little surprised about that because historically my Hba1C has very closely and reliably tracked weight loss. Something is definitely happening inside me! It might be that as the levels of insulin are coming down, I'm still not making quite enough new to cope, but hopefully if I can continue the process of getting a smaller waist , then eventually this will bring the insulin resistance down and maybe that will enable the all important revitalisation of my pancreas. In the meantime 42 is fine anyway.
I am actually eating about 50-100% more carbs than my previous LCHF way, so if all else fails I still have the option to reduce those further too.

Given that the holy grail appears to be the loss of pancreatic and other organ fat and that that appears to be precisely where this style of eating is taking me , I am just going to plough on for now , rejoice in my new found shape and hope that the end result will all come good eventually.

Overall its certainly been a very successful two weeks. I wonder what the next six will bring. I will get new full bloods done at the end of the 8 week period.
 
Back
Top