Neurologist diagnosed with me insulin neuritis, so can it be possible to be too effective?

[Prince4]

So I saw Neurologist yesterday around Muscle Aches and Tingles in Legs and Arms and restless legs etc and upon examination and diet he advised that I am suffering from Insulin Neuritis AKA Treatment induced neuropathy and basically claimed that these symptoms present when the body has to adjust to the 'correction' of BG levels and he said that Ketodiet and avoiding Sugar too quickly can have this effect. Therefore, the question is, is avoiding added Sugar and Carbs a recipe for being a victim of your own success. I can't imagine a doctor telling a smoker not to give up cigarettes too quickly as a means of avoiding withdrawal symptoms.....

Ihave advised extensively of the problems experienced. Have reverted to Keto Diet on the great advice of this site but cannot overstate just how much Sugar and junk that I used to consume over the years on a daily basis, too much comfort food and whilst I don't drink alcohol I consume a lot of soft drink. As mentioned was prescribed metformin in Feb and combined with Zero Carbs and Sugars for the last 10 weeks or so, almost by accident but have really dialled into this for the last 6 weeks. My HBA1C has dropped from 96 --to 71 --- to 64, so a 33 % drop in 10 weeks and I know if I took one tomorrow it would be in the low 50's I'm sure based on my indicative BG measuring over the last 6 weeks which has informed my approach.

Has anyone ever experienced this? I have never found a doctor who has warned against giving up a toxic substance ( sugar) too quickly.

 

[Mrs HJG]

I had severe eyesight complications when I dropped my HbA1c like a rock, but my sight was completely restored 2-3 months later, months/years of high BG doesn't clear from everywhere at the same pace, and with time things got back to normal for me. Did your neurologist say whether your neuritis would disappear/get better? I was not warned this would happen, and no-one really knew what to advise, as dropping so quickly was rare in their experience, (because I ignored their Eatwell Plate advice!).

I suppose coming off sugar, (although different) can and will cause 'cold turkey' reactions if you cut it out quickly, so I think it goes with the territory. Not that I am a smoker, but I'd have thought the steps of 'cigarettes to vapes to patches to stopping' would be way more successful longterm than all to nothing very quickly.

 

[Prince4]

You dropped c100 points from your HBA1C in 3 Months???! How did you manage this?? My Doctor said this will probably last 6 months. The only discomfort at present is the muscle aches and squeezing feelings at rest...

 

[ianf0ster]

Quite a lot has been written about this being a potential problem for Low Carbing, over on the diabetes.org.uk website where they usually give a warning not to reduce carbs too fast. The usual problem i(strictly speaking ) is retinopathy i.e. their vision is blurred for some weeks until the body adjusts. Strangely they don't acknowledge that the same effect can happen with their own 'Newcastle diet' which is also Low Carb due to it being only 800 Calories!

Some (without personal experience) claim that this type of Neuropathy is permanent, but I have never seen anybody claim to still be suffering from it more than 6 months after they have stabilised their BG at a low level. In fact most appear to get back to 'normal' after around 12 weeks.

 

[Caprock94]

This happened to me as well. I lowered my A1C from 8.3% at diagnosis to 5.2% in four months or so. My vision got blurry not long in to it, which really scared me. However, it all adjusted fine in a week to ten days. I also developed a burning pain in both feet that came on suddenly. It was terrible at first, with some electrical shock type feelings also going on. After a month or two, it got a little better. That was 4 years ago. My feet still give me trouble (burning sensation), but each year it has gotten a little better. Nowadays I can sometimes go several days without even noticing any issues. Other times I will have flare ups. In the middle of one of those now, and I haven't been able to pinpoint any triggers. I just hope it continues to slowly get better.

It was really odd the way it happened. I never had any numbness or tingling. Just all of a sudden both feet felt like they were on fire. It was even happening in my hands to a lesser degree, but thankfully that stopped after several months.

 

[Outlier]

Absolutely NOT offering medical advice, but from my own experience, I went cold turkey on carbs/sugars and stopped them overnight. I had blurred vision for a week or so, then everything readjusted to normal. Our bodies seek homeostasis and can sometimes react to a massive change, but then they stabilise. I did things this way because it suits my temperament, and I do well if I make things easy for myself. We are all different, and there is no wrong way to make lifestyle changes that are for our benefit.

Prior to diagnosis, I didn't eat junk or processed food, but I did eat a lot of fruit, so that had to change.

 

[Mrs HJG]

You dropped c100 points from your HBA1C in 3 Months???! How did you manage this?? My Doctor said this will probably last 6 months. The only discomfort at present is the muscle aches and squeezing feelings at rest...

I was basically too scared to eat for a couple of weeks (over Christmas and New Year), and at the same time a 3 week run of minimal insulin plus Metformin, then it was low carb, <100g/day and that did it for me - it was mentally harder than physically, except on my eyes. Still is a conscious effort, although summer and salads is fine, mid-winter and really wanting a bowl of pasta or a jacket potato is not so much fun! Fortunately/unfortunately the cost of living crisis means not going out much, as restaurant eating feel like such a faff, but it doesn't happen often

 

[0110]

So I saw Neurologist yesterday around Muscle Aches and Tingles in Legs and Arms and restless legs etc and upon examination and diet he advised that I am suffering from Insulin Neuritis AKA Treatment induced neuropathy and basically claimed that these symptoms present when the body has to adjust to the 'correction' of BG levels and he said that Ketodiet and avoiding Sugar too quickly can have this effect. Therefore, the question is, is avoiding added Sugar and Carbs a recipe for being a victim of your own success. I can't imagine a doctor telling a smoker not to give up cigarettes too quickly as a means of avoiding withdrawal symptoms.....

Ihave advised extensively of the problems experienced. Have reverted to Keto Diet on the great advice of this site but cannot overstate just how much Sugar and junk that I used to consume over the years on a daily basis, too much comfort food and whilst I don't drink alcohol I consume a lot of soft drink. As mentioned was prescribed metformin in Feb and combined with Zero Carbs and Sugars for the last 10 weeks or so, almost by accident but have really dialled into this for the last 6 weeks. My HBA1C has dropped from 96 --to 71 --- to 64, so a 33 % drop in 10 weeks and I know if I took one tomorrow it would be in the low 50's I'm sure based on my indicative BG measuring over the last 6 weeks which has informed my approach.

Has anyone ever experienced this? I have never found a doctor who has warned against giving up a toxic substance ( sugar) too quickly.

Insulin Neuritis AKA Treatment induced neuropathy, is this permanent or does this fix itself? I certainly experience nerve pains on my fingers and restless legs as well. What did they say will it get better?

Another symptom I have is kind if dizzy agitated in the mornings but gets better by 2-3pm onwards, I went from HBAC1 82 to 30 in 8-9 weeks

 

[Prince4]

Insulin Neuritis AKA Treatment induced neuropathy, is this permanent or does this fix itself? I certainly experience nerve pains on my fingers and restless legs as well. What did they say will it get better?

Another symptom I have is kind if dizzy agitated in the mornings but gets better by 2-3pm onwards, I went from HBAC1 82 to 30 in 8-9 weeks

They reckon 4-6 months and resolution happens naturally. 82-30????!

 

[0110]

They reckon 4-6 months and resolution happens naturally. 82-30????!

Correct 82 to 20 HBAC1 in 8-9 weeks

 

[0110]

Sorry I meant 82 to 30 not 20.

 

[Prince4]

You mean 82-30 how??? no wonder your body is feeling the difference.

 

[0110]

You mean 82-30 how??? no wonder your body is feeling the difference.

Yeah I mean it's not bad at all. I feel OK. Sometimes dizzy and agitated though I hope that gets better. My nerves used to twitch on my legs. Thats resolved itself

 

[AloeSvea]

I think it great that you all are sharing these adaptation to lowering carb intake/lowering glucose going into the body stories - as they are an important part of what happens when we, with blood glucose regulation problems, do so.

My understanding is that conventional medical practioners and practices have not caught up with the lowering carb intake route to getting better with type two (and helping with control with type one). When a practioner or practice IS up with the play - we are exceedingly grateful.

Yes, I agree with above - it would be a strange medical professinonal indeed who did not supprt a COPD/lung cancer patient with giving up smoking straight away, if the patient was willing and able to do so. One can only hope for medical professionals to support and aid insulin resistance based diabetes patients to do likewise with insulinemic and glucose raising foods and drink. One day this will be par for the course, I am hoping.

 

[Prince4]

Yeah I mean it's not bad at all. I feel OK. Sometimes dizzy and agitated though I hope that gets better. My nerves used to twitch on my legs. Thats resolved itself

You also mention on a previous post that you managed to reduce from 11/12 to around 6/7 in a matter of ten days? I am presuming this was not a HBA1C test? But PIN prick measuring?

I have gone from 94 to 64 in 12 weeks. I have read that anything greater that a 2 % HBA1C drop increases likelihood of TIND Neuropathy.

 

[0110]

You also mention on a previous post that you managed to reduce from 11/12 to around 6/7 in a matter of ten days? I am presuming this was not a HBA1C test? But PIN prick measuring?

I have gone from 94 to 64 in 12 weeks. I have read that anything greater that a 2 % HBA1C drop increases likelihood of TIND Neuropathy.

I don't even remember my previous numbers 3 months ago. The pin pricks. It's about what I'm getting now, 5.6 this morning 6.2 2hrs after lunch.

Yoir doing really well so be happy, TBH it's all the people here I attribute my numbers too. And I can honestly say of a lapse person like me can do it anyone can. FYI eating 3 chocolate bars and 3 paskets of crisps was normal on a daily basis for me. That was a snack not a meal

 

[ianf0ster]

You also mention on a previous post that you managed to reduce from 11/12 to around 6/7 in a matter of ten days? I am presuming this was not a HBA1C test? But PIN prick measuring?

I have gone from 94 to 64 in 12 weeks. I have read that anything greater that a 2 % HBA1C drop increases likelihood of TIND Neuropathy.

Just for clarification I think that that 2% quoted is in the old HbA1C percentaqe values rather than a percentage of the current mmol that it's measured in. so 2% would be going from an HbA1C of 8.5% (= 69 mmol) to one of 6.5% (= 48 in mmol).

 

[Firefly1]

So I saw Neurologist yesterday around Muscle Aches and Tingles in Legs and Arms and restless legs etc and upon examination and diet he advised that I am suffering from Insulin Neuritis AKA Treatment induced neuropathy and basically claimed that these symptoms present when the body has to adjust to the 'correction' of BG levels and he said that Ketodiet and avoiding Sugar too quickly can have this effect. Therefore, the question is, is avoiding added Sugar and Carbs a recipe for being a victim of your own success. I can't imagine a doctor telling a smoker not to give up cigarettes too quickly as a means of avoiding withdrawal symptoms.....

Ihave advised extensively of the problems experienced. Have reverted to Keto Diet on the great advice of this site but cannot overstate just how much Sugar and junk that I used to consume over the years on a daily basis, too much comfort food and whilst I don't drink alcohol I consume a lot of soft drink. As mentioned was prescribed metformin in Feb and combined with Zero Carbs and Sugars for the last 10 weeks or so, almost by accident but have really dialled into this for the last 6 weeks. My HBA1C has dropped from 96 --to 71 --- to 64, so a 33 % drop in 10 weeks and I know if I took one tomorrow it would be in the low 50's I'm sure based on my indicative BG measuring over the last 6 weeks which has informed my approach.

Has anyone ever experienced this? I have never found a doctor who has warned against giving up a toxic substance ( sugar) too quickly.

Yup. Went from A1c of 12.5 to 6.8 in less than 2 months. Extreme burning, restless legs, cramps, shock like pain and muscle aches. Feet still extremely sensitive to socks. I’m in month 8 of this and I would say it’s 80% gone. Neurologist diagnosed me as the extreme burning of soles of feet and toe burning and freezing was literally overnight.

Of everything I’ve read, and I’ve read hundreds of forum posts on (2-3 diabetes pages), papers and research studies of this, it doesn’t appear to be permanent.

Of the 1-2 cases where it was longer term or permanent, the individual had an eating disorder and was severely lacking nutrition and may have prohibited the healing process. The prevailing thought is once that would get under control, so would the TIND.

 

[Firefly1]

Just for clarification I think that that 2% quoted is in the old HbA1C percentaqe values rather than a percentage of the current mmol that it's measured in. so 2% would be going from an HbA1C of 8.5% (= 69 mmol) to one of 6.5% (= 48 in mmol).

Yes. Greater than 2 percentage points.

 

[Firefly1]

You also mention on a previous post that you managed to reduce from 11/12 to around 6/7 in a matter of ten days? I am presuming this was not a HBA1C test? But PIN prick measuring?

I have gone from 94 to 64 in 12 weeks. I have read that anything greater that a 2 % HBA1C drop increases likelihood of TIND Neuropathy.

Correct. And if you’re in the 4 percentage point drop, like A1c of 12 to 8, you have an 80% chance of developing it. Mine was on the cusp of that from 12.5 to 6.1 in 12 weeks. The pain was unlike anything I’ve ever felt. I was borderline suicidal. Neurologist saved my life as did forums like this where I learned others had experience with this and it’s temporary and self-limiting. I buried myself in what little literature there is on this subject.