New Diagnosed & Statins

[Mud Island Dweller]

First a hi to everyone and many thanks for the brilliant site, forum questions and answers all is a big help

I am not bad tempered but l will stand up when pushed so my saga begins thus...

Diagnosed on Wednesday thought l was menopausal but that was minor background pre. Been pretty rough the last l would say 2 months when l am guessing rumbling preT2 decided to give me a big kicking. Now l know l was having a lot of hypos.

However my "nice" dr found the problem and started me on metformin and told me l had to start statins, l refused statins said l would deal with diet and exercise and the argument blew up from there.
Instead of asking my why?...
Answer....quite frankly l have heard to many scary stories but got..

You can not bring cholesterol down without them on diet and exercise...You will die without them as your cholesterol is high...if you don't die you will be a burden on your family, you are selfish. He snarled if l didn't improve l would have to go onto other meds and insulin injections. Really helpful and understanding when he just hit me with the news.
l would hate to think how someone who was a lot less secure would cope. We slung a fair bit of mud at each other his comments were walked over by my sarcastic and slam back replies.

I wont be pushed around not after the last 3 yrs of dealing with hospitals and dr and nurses incompetence and my mum who passed in April after 3 yrs of hell for her and not a lot of fun in that time l lost my dad in 2010 l lost my husband 3 months later and mum in and out psychiatric ward from their death's ... she gave up more in than out till care home July last yr, not counting the main hospitals supreme incompetence that l couldn't sue them over.

We then settled down he told me l would need nurse/retinopothy/poditarist sorted. Am assuming he will sort but will ask the nurse on the 25th.

Been doing a list of questions some added others taken away as l have read this site, been brilliant many thanks to everyone. Due to new husbands problems last yr we have a glucometer and full tub of (in date) strips. So am starting testing.
I have done a big thing for me and cut sugar (well l took fructose) from my coffees

Am doing a sort of mix of diets. Low carbing it as suggested but using pumpkin and sesame seeds as snacks have a table spoon of hemp seeds crushed into a banana at breakfast and trying to get hold of flax seed. Eat an apple a day dipped in sesame seeds got this info couple weeks ago and was sorting seeds before the diagnosis http://rawforbeauty.com/blog/the-top-10 ... earth.html

Breakfast 2 scrambled eggs with chopped tomato in no milk mixed in and no oil to cook in. Had that for some time just taken away the piece of toast.
Lunch chicken salad with olive oil or today small tin tuna and some onion.
Dinner whatever hub cooks but lot veg and usually sweet spud and fish or chop or spaghetti He loves cooking so l have got him the carbs and calories book.

I am overweight but was already with a personal trainer we been trying to knock ourselves into shape, things went belly up when we went on holiday all September and that's when everything kicked in. So now l am "sorted" we will start with the PT again and l have restarted home exercises

I spoke on the phone to the the diabetes UK nurse on the day (didnn't have my numbers l stormed out got them on Thursday) and she said if it was sort of 15/16 then go on statins to knock it down if low see how diet and exercise helps. She was confused over drs attitude as she said what l wanted to do diet and exercise was the best way to deal with diabetes and if it wasn't it wouldn't be recommended by anyone just statins giving out. Also had similar discussion with 2 pharmacists.
One gave me the paperwork to apply for medication for free (big blue form) so thats done and in with dr receptionist.

I am a veterinary nurse so have a basic understanding of diabetes on animals getting a much bigger understanding of human diabetes, happy to do finger pricks and used to record keeping for that. While sort of laid back about things am anxious about sorting myself out. Several apps downloaded for checking food details found brilliant site for GI http://www.glycemicindex.com/

My diagnosis type 2 test parameters were
fasting 6 and glucose tolerance 13
Overall cholesterol was 5.6

Took a pre breakfast finger this morning and was 5.5 so happy l had last nights food and l hope full day sorted.
My afternoon one was 5.1 (2hrs post lunch)
Till the D. nurse appointment was thinking of doing 2 a day at different times to get a general guide. And when l go into see her l have a list of whats going on that l hope will save time with discussions

Oh and podiatrist may be a problem l live 90% of my life barefoot shoes for work and that's about it my feet suffer in shoes and not going to start a problem putting them on when l don't have one when off.

What all that rambling is would anyone here go on statins with the reading l gave there? given that the Diabetes UK person said 15/16 take statins or do exercise first off. l am due a retest in 3 months and figure if l give that time to exercise and diet and see how l do?
Does it sound as if l am on the right path to helping myself with things?
Does my random glucose test plan sound feasible?
How soon should l have a retinopathy appointment,
what suggestions can make after reading above.

 

[dawnmc]

Quite a nice doctor you have there, think they missed out on the how to treat patients lesson.
Statins don't do anything for your diabetes, lots of debate about what they can and can't do. Personally I have refused them too. They aren't really recommended for women.
As for carbs, bananas are not your friend nor is pasta. The advice is to test your blood before your meal and 2 hours after, it gives you a much better idea of what food does to you.

 

[daisy1]

Hi Mud Island Dweller and welcome to the forum

Here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask all the questions you want to and someone will help.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find well over 70,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes ... rains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips
The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

 

[Daibell]

Yes, your dr. was out of order. Statins are nothing to do with diabetes but as they can reduce cholesterol they can, in theory, reduce the risk of high blood fat deposits and 'sticky' blood making things worse. I no longer take statins and my DN is happy with that. There is increasing evidence that taking statins can be harmful (ask my wife who was given them having had hepatitis A as a child) and reducing cholesterol can be unnecessary and that the body needs cholesterol for health. Google Dr Biffra for a good insight into diet. If you can reduce your carbs (yes, including bananas!) your cholesterol LDL/HDL ratio should improve. Sounds like your DN knows what she is doing so follow her guidance rather than the Dr.

 

[Mud Island Dweller]

Many thanks Daisy1 yup saw that earlier and had made notes from it, set up a folder in my phone memos on Diabetes. Have Danger Signs what to look for, Nutrition for quick glance, Medical quick need info.

Thanks Dawnmc l am determined to do my best to loose them normally. Agree on missing the how to deal with the patient lessons. I was having one small banana a day with breakfast so l can squash my hemp seed into it they are foul but nana makes them eatable :lol: they are only the small kids size ones about 60grm weight so not to worried about them but at the same time there is a lot of mixed signals about them hence a small one till l learn more.

We go through pasta stages had some last couple of weeks for about 4 meals but not had any for over l would say 2 months before that but l did say to hub would need wholemeal pasta as thought that was ok l like the odd bit in this case was spaghetti home made :cry:

Will make sure l do the BG as suggested l was thinking of the random being morning BG one day pm set other middle of day BG other if that makes sense?

Many thanks Daibell l don't have a nurse yet it was the one l rang at Diabetes UK l am hoping that my one at the surgery will prove more knowledgeable, friendly and helpful than the dr was.

 

[Andy12345]

Hi, Welcome

Sorry your post was too long for my brain but i read the first bit and last bit lol

i reduced my cholesterol from (off top of head with numbers) 6.8 to 4.8 in 3 months without taking statins so the doc is wrong, i do take them now (for a different reason) and it is 2.8 now but i have no idea if that was the statins or just diet

best of luck

my brain has cooled so i will try again

 

[noblehead]

Hi and welcome to the forum Mud, sorry to read that you've had a rotten time over the last few years.

With regards to your cholesterol, you should ask your gp for a fasting cholesterol check to get a full lipid breakdown of your cholesterol, there's an explanation here which includes the target cholesterol levels for people who have diabetes:

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-dia ... ts_lipids/


Personally if my cholesterol levels were high then I'd certainly consider taking a statin if I couldn't reduce it through lifestyle changes, my own Endocrinologist did suggest I started on a statin 2 years ago after my total cholesterol went slightly above 4 but we agreed to agree that we should put it on hold for now, as it happens my last few tests have been below 4 so I'm not too worried for now.

Statins aren't for everyone and some people do suffer from the side-effects of taking them yet others don't, one thing is for certain they do what they say and lower cholesterol in those that persevere with them. My own thoughts are that we are at a heightened risk of heart attack and strokes so anything that reduces the chances of them occurring can only be seen as a good thing, if and when I do decide to take the plunge in the future and take a statin I wouldn't be swayed by other people's experiences, like many other drugs there's side-effects but not everyone suffers from them so it's worth keeping this in mind.

 

[Mud Island Dweller]

Thanks Andy sorry yup it was a bit of a "tome" wanted to sort of explain

Noblehead l figure 3 months is a fair test for me to see how l do and if l have to take statins as l have made no move l will give them a go.

Went out for a meal tonight, had best option l could find, it is to cold for salad, had 9oz steak a few chips (left half) and salad got home 25mins on bike and at 2hrs was 6.6 least it wasn't as high as l thought. l figured l would be about 13 or 14 so while not good at least wasn't so bad. I thought about asking for boiled spuds but rightly or wrongly figured not much difference between them.

l know cholestrol but if you give up everything in life then no point going on and don't think we will be going out in the near future.

 

[Dougie22]

I had a similar (but less heated) issue with my doctor over statins and their attitude to patient collaboration (I'm the doctor; laymen know nothing; do as you're told; take these pills). After a few unsatisfactory sessions, I changed my practice and have had no problems in the new practice. I posted some comments here at the time so you might be able to find them and have a read. The hardest bit was making sure I wasn't jumping from the frying pan to the fire. I managed to get a double appointment with my potential new doctor and talked it through with him before making the jump.

For the record my total cholesterol is ultra-high (8.5) but I am still refusing statins but you need to make an informed choice for your own situation.

 

[mcdonagh47]

However my "nice" dr found the problem and started me on metformin and told me l had to start statins, l refused statins said l would deal with diet and exercise and the argument blew up from there.
Instead of asking my why?...

Hi There,

the Doc should not have started you on Metformin straight away. Both NICE Guidelines on T2 and Diabetes UK suggest that new T2s, definitely those overweight, should have a three - six month period of Diet and Exercise because they have to understand the absolute necessity of Lifestyle changes.
Having said that there is no PROGRAMME of diet and exercise for new T2s and most newly diagnosed are bewildered by the seeming lack of interest in them by the medics.

On the other hand you should almost certainly have started on the statin. The incidence of heart disease accelerates significantly at readings over 5 for non-diabetics, but for diabetics the tipping point for heart disease is 4. At 5.6 you are well over the mark.

Type 2 Diabetes is part of a bundle of inter-related conditions called the Metabolic Syndrome. The four components, T2 diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and obesity all interact together and exacerbate each other. The recent advice from the AACE ( American Assoc of Clinical Endocrinologists - a major force in the diabetic world) recommends that any manifestation of any one of the four components of the Metabolic Syndrome should be tackled aggressively.

It is also important for you to know the individual readings in the Cholesterol. If the LDL is over the limit then you almost certainly need a statin.

There is a lot of tripe and a lot of misinformation on the internet about statins, and anti-statin warriors will tell you anything in an attempt to stop you taking them. But statins, since their large scale introduction in the early 90s, have completely transformed the landscape of heart disease and heart attacks. One wag suggests statins have made cancer the main single killer in the USA simply because they have toppled heart attacks and heart disease from pride of place.

Heart disease is the main complication you are facing as Type 2 Diabetic, 80% of T2s die of heart disease and you need any help you can get to stave it off for as long as possible.

 

[Morganator]

Do Drs get paid per patient that are on statins? I ask because one locum insisted to me that all diabetics need to take them, this in spite of my consultant telling me to look on the bright side cos at least my cholesteral was perfect (everything else is going to h**l in a handbasket) ;-)

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[dawnmc]

Its an odd thing!!! The body produces its own cholesterol, it doesn't come from food. Without cholesterol we would die. There is evidence to suggest that older people need the cholesterol, it surrounds the brain. However do your own research - there is plenty out there. Then you have to make up your own mind.
My mother is in a wheelchair because of statins and my partner had panic attacks, but my brother in law is fine on them. So 1 out 3 aint bad!

 

[Dougie22]

In Scotland, the SIGN guidelines for the treatment of diabetes (equivalent to NICE) state:

"Lipid-lowering drug therapy with simvastatin 40 mg or atorvastatin 10 mg is
recommended for primary prevention in patients with type 2 diabetes aged >40 years
regardless of baseline cholesterol."

That's why doctors prescribe them routinely, even in patients with low total cholesterol.

There are plenty of people on this site and within my non-diabetic social group who believe that this overstates the benefit/risk equation for Statins. (and they are not all anti-statin warriors posting tripe!).

 

[dawnmc]

Tripe, apparently cleanses the body.

 

[angieG]

Do Drs get paid per patient that are on statins? I ask because one locum insisted to me that all diabetics need to take them, this in spite of my consultant telling me to look on the bright side cos at least my cholesteral was perfect (everything else is going to h**l in a handbasket) ;-)

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

I was talking to a retired nurse the other day and she said that there is a payment for everyone they put onto statins and also a payment for every 1.0 someone's level drops.
I have absolutely no idea if there is any truth in this but it does make you wonder at times!
Angie

 

[Sid Bonkers]

My diagnosis type 2 test parameters were
fasting 6 and glucose tolerance 13
Overall cholesterol was 5.6


Oh and podiatrist may be a problem l live 90% of my life barefoot shoes for work and that's about it my feet suffer in shoes and not going to start a problem putting them on when l don't have one when off.

Hi Mud Island Dweller and welcome to the forum. You will read lots of conflicting information regarding cholesterol both here and on other diabetes related forums, there are some who dont believe that cholesterol matters that much and doesnt contribute to heart disease but most people and professionals think the opposite one thing is certain however and that is that now that you are diabetic you are at greater risk of of developing heart disease, hardening of arteries or dilation of the blood vessels, stroke, retinopaphy (eyesight problems), kidney disease and neruopothy (problems with nerve endings to the extremities, mainly feet), so anything that you can do to prevent the possibility of any of these diabetic complications must be a good thing, yes?

So when you know that you are at greater risk of heart disease it makes sense to take care of your heart the best way you can and if most cardiologists say that having a low cholesterol level helps, then I think it makes sense to keep mine as low as possible. That said your cholesterol is not that high in the general scheme of things but most doctors recommend under 5 as a general rule and under 4 for diabetics due to our extra risks associated with strokes and heart disease.

I included your small paragraph on walking barefoot as this can be potentially very dangerous for diabetics as a combination of hardening of the arteries and the dilation of veins can mean a loss of blood flow to the feet making even small wounds extremely difficult to heal and many diabetics suffer from ulcerated wounds to the feet which can then lead to amputation. So it is extremely important that you wear shoes at all times.

Diabetic nueropothy means that feeling can be lost to the feet or toes and injuries can happen unknown to a sufferer, this makes another very good reason to wear shoes at all times even if you have no symptoms now they can occur at any time.

Diabetes is known as the silent killer,I therefore think it makes sense to take as few risks with my health as possible and so I do what I can to prevent all diabetic compications by:

1. Insuring that my blood glucose (bg) levels, my weight and my cholesterol are as low as I can keep them

2. Having an annual retinopathy screening to check for bleeds behind my eyes

3. Having an diabetic check up where I have my feet and weight checked and am asked about my general health

4. Eating a healthy balanced diet and moderating my drinking habits.

5. Keeping an eye on my cholesterol and weight

6. And I always try to maintain a good working relationship with my doctor whos opinion I value.

On a day to day basis I dont think about my diabetes at all unless I am attending a clinic or having a blood test or something but I am thankful that I am, untill now, apparently free of diabetic complications and would like that to continue.