Newbie, feeling bit baffled

[KeithT 2]

Thanks @Stephen Lewis

a great deal of info as you say, and blessed that the majority of costs are being met..(good planning by you perhaps, but still blessed it's to hand for such a disease.).

while you make good claims and justified i believe for the cgm..the truth about meter accuracy i can't dispute, the manufacturers suggest a variance is in each meter. and it's dicussed in many posts re meters.

However i'd still suggest that the premise of don't test is wrong on a few levels.
least of which is as i mentioned previous.

i am all for differences of opinion, but here i find myself clashing into your assumption (i couldn't see it refuted ? )
that testing is a waste of time..if not done on a cgm..at i think we agree, prohibitive cost to the many.

i appreciate we are all different in our means, needs & reactions to food because of our very own health and other medical issues we may have..but that idea still appalls me, sorry to say.

i COULD pay for the CGM for a few months..
BUT i couldn't really justify the cost ongoing, if i'm honest , when the meter is a much more cost effective method AND as you 2nd post says, i am having decent success..(thank you )

I wish all T2D had the luxury here of test meters and strips..and the holy grail of CGM's for everybody..
but the T1D's needs here are greater, imho..once they all have one gratis..happy days
then on to us T2's, please doctors..(sound very TERMINATOR, doesn't it..LoL)




if i could liken it to some other OLD tech.
i am on a ship, throwing out a weight to test how deep the waters are in any given harbour or bay i do NOT know.
CGM users are more lucky to have full on sonar probing the depths, so are much more secure in their direction.

But surely ANY measure that stops or aids a ship from running aground is better then just blind faith, until that moment the ship IS lost or damage incurred.

and we certainly shouldn't be dissuading those who know so little, when asking for guidance by giving the impression that only the wealthy or those lucky enough COULD save/improve their health

When clearly despite it's drawbacks, another method IS much more easily accessible, AND is achieving great things in regards to helping SO many reduce their A1c, (HBA1C here in UK ) and in many cases placing their T2D into remission.

For me i have a corridor in my mind of where i want my BG to be..it's between 4 and 8
i can reasonably test to find the foods that bash my BG into the walls of that corridor
OR
i could hope i eat the better foods that stop my bg's rising,

but as i have found out, the rises are very rarely noticeable when they are happening, the only way i could possibly have known/learned what foods DO that and avoid them in future... WAS by testing.

i wish you well in your ongoing journey
i shall watch your name when i see any of the shiny CGM fleet hove into view and hope your doing well.

Do please wave at any fleet of trawlermen, chugging along, i maybe be amongst them....and wish us well too.

we might be using old methods, but are on the same mission.

after all no one likes looking at the wrecks of those that failed to test the waters, before setting sail,
without a small judder in there bones and a silent prayer of.. 'RiP...Thank god that wasn't me '

Tl;Dr.
Testing by ANY means is good.
if not by CGM... then TEST using a meter.
Far better to know a little and avoid health issues
then to blissfully know nothing and leave yourself open to the progressive nature of the
disease and it's full compliment of complications and issues.
/

Being a type 2 this past 12 years I have to say that I never started regular testing until 2 years ago. Finger pricking may not be as accurate (an impossibility really) as some would hope, but it is the only way to take control of this disease by adjusting medication and/or diet. Without that test information in front of us, we cannot possibly know what is going on. I got so used to relying on the medication that when I did start to test regularly I was really shocked. I only began testing when I was diagnosed with maculopathy, and that scared the pants off of me. Better control of BG numbers was essential if I was to stop it in its path or even try and reverse it. I went on Gliclazide for 18 months, so finger pricking and keeping records was an essential part of using this drug. I was taken off of it once my HbA1c reached a steady 42. I went back on Metformin and had a month of struggling to adjust my numbers back to those normal numbers I had been used to. My range with Gliclazide was between 4.5 and 6.3. Coming off of it sent my numbers up to 6.3 and 8, and I even had a 10 on one occasion. Fortunately I can self-adjust my meds to suit and slowly I am getting the dosage and diet right again. Last night was 5.5 and this morning 5.3. If I get the odd 7.5 on my bedtime postprandial I don't worry too much, as overnight they usually drop to about 6 on waking. I don't feel clean though if they get to 7 or above and will adjust diet for the next few days to get them back down. Without finger pricking I wouldn't have the information to do this. I'm lucky enough to get my meter, lancets and strips from the NHS, and feel for those who have to buy their own. They are not cheap.

 

[KeithT 2]

Not if you have anaemia or some other condition affecting red blood cells possibly.
Also it shows only an average. Not if that’s a nice smooth line or a potentially very damaging spikey graph full of highs and lows.

So no not perfect either. We do the best with what we have

What I meant was, it is accurate, but not without its inaccuracies; inasmuch as there isn't any other test to replace it as yet that is better. We are all hanging on a thread when it comes to testing. lol

 

[Resurgam]

Having a set, small income at the time, I simply worked with what strips I could afford and huffed a bit at the not very surprising evidence of me being really sensitive to carbs - decades of struggling with weight gain had convinced me that something odd was going on - perhaps I could metabolise cellulose.
I reduced carbs to 50 gm per day and soon was seeing under 8mmol/l at the two hour test.
Job done. Stick to those levels of carbs - and the timing as my insulin resistance alters during the day, so most carbs eaten in the evening but no more worries about high blood glucose.
I eat fewer carbs these days to try to lose weight - the comments sometimes seen about low carb being expensive seem strange - I need to eat so little that I am taking a vitamin and mineral tablet almost every day - still no weightloss.

 

[Stephen Lewis]

Thanks @Stephen Lewis

a great deal of info as you say, and blessed that the majority of costs are being met..(good planning by you perhaps, but still blessed it's to hand for such a disease.).

while you make good claims and justified i believe for the cgm..the truth about meter accuracy i can't dispute, the manufacturers suggest a variance is in each meter. and it's dicussed in many posts re meters.

However i'd still suggest that the premise of don't test is wrong on a few levels.
least of which is as i mentioned previous.

i am all for differences of opinion, but here i find myself clashing into your assumption (i couldn't see it refuted ? )
that testing is a waste of time..if not done on a cgm..at i think we agree, prohibitive cost to the many.

i appreciate we are all different in our means, needs & reactions to food because of our very own health and other medical issues we may have..but that idea still appalls me, sorry to say.

i COULD pay for the CGM for a few months..
BUT i couldn't really justify the cost ongoing, if i'm honest , when the meter is a much more cost effective method AND as you 2nd post says, i am having decent success..(thank you )

I wish all T2D had the luxury here of test meters and strips..and the holy grail of CGM's for everybody..
but the T1D's needs here are greater, imho..once they all have one gratis..happy days
then on to us T2's, please doctors..(sound very TERMINATOR, doesn't it..LoL)

if i could liken it to some other OLD tech.
i am on a ship, throwing out a weight to test how deep the waters are in any given harbour or bay i do NOT know.
CGM users are more lucky to have full on sonar probing the depths, so are much more secure in their direction.

But surely ANY measure that stops or aids a ship from running aground is better then just blind faith, until that moment the ship IS lost or damage incurred.

and we certainly shouldn't be dissuading those who know so little, when asking for guidance by giving the impression that only the wealthy or those lucky enough COULD save/improve their health

When clearly despite it's drawbacks, another method IS much more easily accessible, AND is achieving great things in regards to helping SO many reduce their A1c, (HBA1C here in UK ) and in many cases placing their T2D into remission.

For me i have a corridor in my mind of where i want my BG to be..it's between 4 and 8
i can reasonably test to find the foods that bash my BG into the walls of that corridor
OR
i could hope i eat the better foods that stop my bg's rising,

but as i have found out, the rises are very rarely noticeable when they are happening, the only way i could possibly have known/learned what foods DO that and avoid them in future... WAS by testing.

i wish you well in your ongoing journey
i shall watch your name when i see any of the shiny CGM fleet hove into view and hope your doing well.

Do please wave at any fleet of trawlermen, chugging along, i maybe be amongst them....and wish us well too.

we might be using old methods, but are on the same mission.

after all no one likes looking at the wrecks of those that failed to test the waters, before setting sail,
without a small judder in there bones and a silent prayer of.. 'RiP...Thank god that wasn't me '

Tl;Dr.
Testing by ANY means is good.
if not by CGM... then TEST using a meter.
Far better to know a little and avoid health issues
then to blissfully know nothing and leave yourself open to the progressive nature of the
disease and it's full compliment of complications and issues.
/

I agree about testing being essential. It was not suggested (required?) that I start blood testing until I went on insulin in February 2018. Before that I had 12 years on ever increasing amounts of drugs with no-one even mentioning any sort of testing except the gradually worsening quarterly A1c. Guess who were the winners - the manufacturers of Metformin, Trajenta, Diamicron and Invokana with increasing doses. If I had been on any testing from the start with access to good information, I believe the drug companies would have lost $1,000s per year. They are still the winners if newly diagnosed diabetics do not have good testing equipment to prevent the deterioration of any of the types (now considered a continuum) of diabetes. What it needs is a lot of pressure from us on the PTBs to get more accurate testing equipment freely available so that we can control our diet and exercise as necessary. If we sit back and accept that inaccurate, barbaric and medieval methods are all we are allowed because we are not rich and do not have the benefit of low cost testing equipment (even the strips are exorbitant) then the drug companies will continue to make unacceptable profits that we may still be paying for in our taxes.
Ranting again (are we both at Hyde Park corner?) but both my parents were diagnosed as T2 over 50 years ago. The treatment protocols do not seem to have changed very much - just blood instead of pee testing followed by drugs. We still buy in to the opinion that the condition is incurable. I don't see many cures for any diseases since the vaccines of the 1950s. Why? Because there is too much continuing high profit from treating symptoms or slowing down the development of a condition. Sometimes it also seems there is too much money available to just keep researching in an ever-narrowing part of a condition. Lots of research papers that just consolidate information from other papers. All necessary but no-one seems to be effective in reaching a solution.
Don't want to stress this too much but aren't trawler-men a species that is gradually becoming extinct.

 

[HSSS]

I agree about testing being essential. It was not suggested (required?) that I start blood testing until I went on insulin in February 2018. Before that I had 12 years on ever increasing amounts of drugs with no-one even mentioning any sort of testing except the gradually worsening quarterly A1c. Guess who were the winners - the manufacturers of Metformin, Trajenta, Diamicron and Invokana with increasing doses. If I had been on any testing from the start with access to good information, I believe the drug companies would have lost $1,000s per year. They are still the winners if newly diagnosed diabetics do not have good testing equipment to prevent the deterioration of any of the types (now considered a continuum) of diabetes. What it needs is a lot of pressure from us on the PTBs to get more accurate testing equipment freely available so that we can control our diet and exercise as necessary. If we sit back and accept that inaccurate, barbaric and medieval methods are all we are allowed because we are not rich and do not have the benefit of low cost testing equipment (even the strips are exorbitant) then the drug companies will continue to make unacceptable profits that we may still be paying for in our taxes.
Ranting again (are we both at Hyde Park corner?) but both my parents were diagnosed as T2 over 50 years ago. The treatment protocols do not seem to have changed very much - just blood instead of pee testing followed by drugs. We still buy in to the opinion that the condition is incurable. I don't see many cures for any diseases since the vaccines of the 1950s. Why? Because there is too much continuing high profit from treating symptoms or slowing down the development of a condition. Sometimes it also seems there is too much money available to just keep researching in an ever-narrowing part of a condition. Lots of research papers that just consolidate information from other papers. All necessary but no-one seems to be effective in reaching a solution.
Don't want to stress this too much but aren't trawler-men a species that is gradually becoming extinct.

Quite agree re testing and being led to believe it’s an ever deteriorating condition and nothing other than take more drugs is to be down about it. In the meantime all we can do is keep banging the drum about low carb eating (and to be fair this can still be done to a large degree without a meter) and the value of testing even if only in the short term to educate newly diagnosed - or educated those long diagnosed but who have never been educated properly on it.

 

[jjraak]

I agree about testing being essential. It was not suggested (required?) that I start blood testing until I went on insulin in February 2018. Before that I had 12 years on ever increasing amounts of drugs with no-one even mentioning any sort of testing except the gradually worsening quarterly A1c. Guess who were the winners - the manufacturers of Metformin, Trajenta, Diamicron and Invokana with increasing doses. If I had been on any testing from the start with access to good information, I believe the drug companies would have lost $1,000s per year. They are still the winners if newly diagnosed diabetics do not have good testing equipment to prevent the deterioration of any of the types (now considered a continuum) of diabetes. What it needs is a lot of pressure from us on the PTBs to get more accurate testing equipment freely available so that we can control our diet and exercise as necessary. If we sit back and accept that inaccurate, barbaric and medieval methods are all we are allowed because we are not rich and do not have the benefit of low cost testing equipment (even the strips are exorbitant) then the drug companies will continue to make unacceptable profits that we may still be paying for in our taxes.
Ranting again (are we both at Hyde Park corner?) but both my parents were diagnosed as T2 over 50 years ago. The treatment protocols do not seem to have changed very much - just blood instead of pee testing followed by drugs. We still buy in to the opinion that the condition is incurable. I don't see many cures for any diseases since the vaccines of the 1950s. Why? Because there is too much continuing high profit from treating symptoms or slowing down the development of a condition. Sometimes it also seems there is too much money available to just keep researching in an ever-narrowing part of a condition. Lots of research papers that just consolidate information from other papers. All necessary but no-one seems to be effective in reaching a solution.
Don't want to stress this too much but aren't trawler-men a species that is gradually becoming extinct.

Ah thank you @Stephen Lewis

have to agree wholeheartedly, about the dearth of appropriate testing equipment..
(the doctors here tell new T2D's NOT to test and evidence is given that it's not just a polite request but a shouted command at times..)

Sorry to hear both parents had it, presume both must of had an element of complications, due to the prevailing advice at the times.

Also agree, and it seems inescapable that the drug companies are in this up to their eyeballs, by standing in the way of better advice re diet etc, for just the reason you presented..greed.

as for trawlermen, perhaps..but until we are all equipped with the CGM Blood Sugar Sonar,
we can't just go quietly into the night,, we must stand and preserve the status quo at least, if not reverse the **** thing.

but once they are pronounced free to all, then i'll happily head for harbour .drop anchor and rest my weary, pin pricked fingers.

Best wishes.