NEWBIE-NEED HELP AND ADVICE PLEASE ON DIET AND BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS

Hi vaana and welcome to the forum.
First let me post the link to our useful info for newbies:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.17088/
Can you please tell us all that you eat in a typical day? I wonder if there may be some carbs sneaking in that you’re not aware of? The half an banana and All Bran won’t be doing you any favours. Do you test before and after meals, that will teach you what foods you can and can’t tolerate, rather than just testing fasting and after meals. I suffered with constipation went I first went low carb which improved with upping my intake of seeds rather than cereals.

Your reply shows up just fine @vaana.
The red flag for me as already stated is the All Bran but also be careful of passata, mushed up fruit or veg is absorbed so much quicker than whole veggies. Peppers, red onions and tomatoes can be troublesome for some, that’s where the before and after meals testing comes in. The weight loss can be a puzzle, I managed to lose weight by keeping to under 50g of carbs per day but I’m also on Metformin which reduces my appetite. It’s a careful balance of eating enough fat to feel satiated but to not overeat calories. Danger foods in my opinion are double cream and nuts in my case, all too easy to eat too much as they are yummy and moreish Having said that you’d be better off using full fat milk, cream or lacto free milk in your tea as the less fat in the milk the more carbs it has.
here’s some graphics showing carb content of different foods which may help you:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/visual-guides
You haven’t mentioned exercise at all, are you able to exercise, even if it’s just walking, that will help with insulin resistance and possibly weight loss too?

Hi @vaana,

First of all, welcome to the forum.

I am not sure, why you're not losing weight on low carb. Hugs, this must be very frustrating.

Some argue that as long as your insulin levels are high, it will difficult to lose weight no matter how little you eat. In prediabetes, that high insulin seems to be given (unless you're actually in the early stages of Type 1). Of course, since no one ever bothers to measure our insulin levels, there is no way of knowing whether your's are high or normal.

So, a suggestion would be to eat to lower your insulin levels rather than to lose weight -- especially to start out with. Lower insulin should eventually allow your body to access your fat reserves (as insulin doesn't only help you to process carbs for energy, but also inhibits the use of body fat for energy).

Personally, I never really bothered with weight loss (I also was about 2 or 3 stone overweight at diagnosis), but focused on blood sugar numbers. For me the weight loss followed, but some members even got back into normal blood sugar levels without losing weight. Also, fatty liver can improve without weight loss if you lower insulin levels by going low carb.

I agree with @Rachox, it might be really helpful to get a blood sugar meter and see what your meals do to your levels. Apart from the bran flakes and sweet potatoes, which the vast majority of us wouldn't be able to get away with, I personally noticed that the carbs in veggies like onion, bell pepper and tomatoes can add up quickly. All of these contain about 5g (actually somewhere between 4g and 6g) of carbs per 100g and 100g of veggies are very little. So, it adds up. So, an alternative might be to up your intake of eggs, cheese, fish and meat, which are all virtually carb free.

Be patient -- it might take a while for insulin levels to drop (might take several weeks or even months of low carbing). Please let us know what you decide and how you get on.

Keeping my fingers crossed that you find a way that works for you.

I’m glad you have a meter, the best way to test a meal is right before the two hours after the first bite. You are looking for a rise of no more than 2 mmol/L. The closer to your before reading the better. In any case you don’t want the after test to exceed 8.5 (or some say 7.8).
Eating meat, blood sugar wise isn’t a problem, meat is generally carb free, just watch out for cereal fillers in burgers and sausages!
Your mother has unfortunately received the standard, low fat high carb Eatwell guide advice which may be ok for non diabetics but isn’t good for us Type 2s. Hopefully you and your mum can learn together.

vaana said:

Thanks for all your info and encouraging words @Rachox and @ziggy_w

I do have a glucose meter - when would be the most helpful time after certain foods to take a reading please?

I have started exercising 6 out of 7 days a week; mainly brisk walking, cycling and aquarobics. Can't say I'm a fan of exercise lol, but that's probably why I've reached the weight I have. Needs must now, so I force myself everyday to partake in some form.

I feel a bit down at the mo - it seems that all the yummy food is high carb - even the healthy bell peppers, walnuts etc. I was trying to cut down on meat and try more veggie meals, but they all seem quite carbie. I don't like eggs either ;(

On a different thread...... my mother is a Type 2 diabetic and recently her blood levels have gone sky high due to massive binging on sweet stuff. I went with her (she's 80) to see the diabetic nurse and was horrified to hear the advice she was given; to eat complex carbs with every meal- Weetabix for breakfast, wholemeal sandwich for lunch and to have potatoes with her evening meal! I wonder why the NHS are giving out this advice?

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Hi @vaana,

Empathize with you on the change in way of eating. When I first went low carb, I dreamed of croissants. It is better now, but seeing French fries often still does it to me. There are some low carb alternatives for many of the high carb foods, if you miss them. For example, I make bread from nut flours with psyllium husks (look for keto bread on the website dietdoctor.com -- you don't need to sign up, lots of stuff for free, including the recipe). If you don't like eggs, don't have them, there is enough low carb food left that you can have.

It's good that you've started exercising a bit more. I doubt that all people really enjoy exercise (I really don't, but walking is okay if the weather is fine). On a positive note, it does seem to help lower insulin resistance and it can also help improve mood.

As to testing, usually most of us test just before a meal and two hours after the first bite, plus upon getting up and before going to sleep -- so this work out to eight times a day if you have three meals, less if you eat less often. Personally, with new food I also tend to test at half an hour and one hour, but I'm the first to admit I am somewhat obsessive. So, no need to test that often. Furthermore, after having tested a meal several times, many of us don't test this meal at all anymore.

Unfortunately, many HCPs still recommend high "healthy" carbs for diabetics (which in the vast majority of cases doesn't do anything to help with high blood glucose levels for T2s). This recommendation is probably due to the fact that T2 is generally associated with a higher risk of heart issues and the various national heart association recommend this way of eating.

Luckily, it seems though that the way of thinking is slowly changing (though not fast enough imo) and some HCPs tend to be way behind the curve.

I posted about the same thing not so long ago!
I am t2 and LC has helped me lose but not as much as I expected. BUT my shape has changed. I lost 3 inches from my waist the first few weeks. I have actually just stood on the scales for the first time since posting about losing weight and it is coming off slowly. I reckon it's an average of about 1lb a week. I have now nearly lost a stone. I am still about 1 1/2 stone overweight but I'm not worrying anymore, I've decided, I'd like it to keep going but I'm not going to chase it.

Have you measured your waist or found that clothes fit better? There maybe size changes rather than weight.

If you need to have fiber, try adding a teaspoon of psyllium husk to the coleslaw in your salad. Kellogs Allbran is 80 percent carbohydrate, so something to avoid. (All bran? No it most certainly is not.)
Do you have a count of the total carbs you are eating each day? High carb veges and sugary/starchy fruits soon add up , I'm afraid.

vaana said:

I was trying to cut down on meat and try more veggie meals, but they all seem quite carbie

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I was vegetarian for most of my life, but now I need to follow a very low carb diet and regretfully I have begun compromising by eating some high welfare chicken and other meat. Some people can manage to follow a reasonably low carb vegetarian diet (maybe up to 130 g carbs daily), but imo it's hard, and a very low carb vegetarian diet (maybe 20-30g carbs daily) is pretty much impossible. The only carb-free foods are fish, flesh, fowl and fat - and even then there are some carbs in eg sardines and liver! If I couldn't eat these I'm not sure what I could eat. So if you were OK with eating meat before, I suggest now is not the time to give it up!

Since a lot has been said already about your food elements, except perhaps looking into nutritional ketosis (a simple measuring device can help here), another couple of thoughts to take into consideration.

Coffee spikes my blood sugar, which is not the case for many people, but it is a known trigger.

Cardio, especially excessive cardio, can also spike blood sugar. Lifting some weights (e.g. simple dumbbells) helps bring down my blood sugar. I often check my glucose level around an hour before bed as the last thing I want to do is have high glucose damage my cells all through the night. If it is too high, I will do 10-15 minutes of dumbbells, pushups and squats which will drop my blood sugar before bed.

Rachox said:

I’m glad you have a meter, the best way to test a meal is right before the two hours after the first bite. You are looking for a rise of no more than 2 mmol/L. The closer to your before reading the better. In any case you don’t want the after test to exceed 8.5 (or some say 7.8).
Eating meat, blood sugar wise isn’t a problem, meat is generally carb free, just watch out for cereal fillers in burgers and sausages!
Your mother has unfortunately received the standard, low fat high carb Eatwell guide advice which may be ok for non diabetics but isn’t good for us Type 2s. Hopefully you and your mum can learn together.

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Rachox - I just want to tell you that you answers are so helpful to me (not just the original poster!) Also, those improving HbA1Cs are just beautiful to see. What an inspiration!

JohnH2019 said:

Since a lot has been said already about your food elements, except perhaps looking into nutritional ketosis (a simple measuring device can help here), another couple of thoughts to take into consideration.

Coffee spikes my blood sugar, which is not the case for many people, but it is a known trigger.

Cardio, especially excessive cardio, can also spike blood sugar. Lifting some weights (e.g. simple dumbbells) helps bring down my blood sugar. I often check my glucose level around an hour before bed as the last thing I want to do is have high glucose damage my cells all through the night. If it is too high, I will do 10-15 minutes of dumbbells, pushups and squats which will drop my blood sugar before bed.

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What do you try to get your blood sugar down to before bed? I go to bed at about 100 and it stays at 100 or a little higher all night..... It's frustrating for me that my fasting blood glucose stays prediabetic.

Auto E said:

What do you try to get your blood sugar down to before bed? I go to bed at about 100 and it stays at 100 or a little higher all night..... It's frustrating for me that my fasting blood glucose stays prediabetic.

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In my case it was a combination of things as I also had undiagnosed exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) that caused havoc with blood sugar regulation. Nutrient deficiencies caused by EPI took a while to rebalance. Now that I have EPI under control, I watch what I eat very closely, as well as when. Dinner is my lowest carb meal of the day (meat and non-starch veggies mostly, a piece of dark chocolate if I crave desert) and I follow a mostly primal diet. One other helpful thing I read which changed my habit is that I do not drink any calories anymore (no juice, no alcohol, no milk), except an occasional protein shake after a large workout. I do not eat or drink (except water or tea) anything after ~19:00. In addition, I will do some simple weights exercises, pushups and slow squats before bed. This last will see an easy couple of points drop in my case .

JohnH2019 said:

In my case it was a combination of things as I also had undiagnosed exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) that caused havoc with blood sugar regulation. Nutrient deficiencies caused by EPI took a while to rebalance. Now that I have EPI under control, I watch what I eat very closely, as well as when. Dinner is my lowest carb meal of the day (meat and non-starch veggies mostly, a piece of dark chocolate if I crave desert) and I follow a mostly primal diet. One other helpful thing I read which changed my habit is that I do not drink any calories anymore (no juice, no alcohol, no milk), except an occasional protein shake after a large workout. I do not eat or drink (except water or tea) anything after ~19:00. In addition, I will do some simple weights exercises, pushups and slow squats before bed. This last will see an easy couple of points drop in my case .

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Thank you so much for this reply, John. I just got (relatively) discouraging news today that despite my low-carb diet, my increased exercise, my stress management improvements, my A1C continues to creep. It is now 6.0%.
I will do all of your suggestions. I think exercise before bed is a key one for me, as well as eating dinner super early.

Auto E said:

my A1C continues to creep. It is now 6.0%.

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Have you had a C-peptide test to find out if your insulin production is low?

Alexandra100 said:

Have you had a C-peptide test to find out if your insulin production is low?

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I haven't, but in July 2018, when my A1C was 5.6%, I did have a fasting insulin. It was 48pmol/L (or 8 uIU/mL), which seems on the high end of normal, actually. It seems like I have insulin resistance without being overweight.....I also exercise a lot.

Auto E said:

I haven't, but in July 2018, when my A1C was 5.6%, I did have a fasting insulin. It was 48pmol/L (or 8 uIU/mL), which seems on the high end of normal, actually. It seems like I have insulin resistance without being overweight.....I also exercise a lot.

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Good to know. I am hoping to profit from your example by stopping eating much earlier in the day. Last bite before 6pm. SO inconvenient, but easier in that I eat almost no carbs for dinner. So far, morning fasting results have been mildly encouraging though not stellar considering the effort involved. Good luck with using exercise before bed to lower bg. In my case exercise often seems to raise bg, but maybe I'll give it a go.

Alexandra100 said:

I am hoping to profit from your example by stopping eating much earlier in the day. Last bite before 6pm. SO inconvenient, but easier in that I eat almost no carbs for dinner. So far, morning fasting results have been mildly encouraging though not stellar considering the effort involved.

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Update: I wrote this before checking my fasting bg this morning. Disappointingly, 5.8. Realised that last night I omitted my regular 2 units of red wine. So back to the bottle tonight. In the interest of research, of course.