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Newbie to it all...advice needed

G

GLL

Newbie
Messages
3
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi all.

I'm recently diagnosed with T2 after getting bloods done due to gaining weight while on a diet (how frustrating is that -_- )

I saw the nurse for bloods and had bp check which was high (as suspected since I had some fluid retention going on in my legs).
I had an appointment to see the GP the following week and given no meds for anything as she wanted the bloodwork to come back to see the bigger picture.
So during the GP appointment we were talking about my bp and fluid and he was scanning the results of the bloods and said and how has your diabetes been. I was like "huh excuse me what?" and it went on from there.
I asked about my diet and what I should be doing and was told "diet and exercise". No further explanation or advice given there or taking into account that I was already dieting and gaining weight while dieting (have lost 10% of my body weight already).
I walked out being thrown a bunch of meds for bp, metformin for t2 and some creams for some skin issues that weren't even on my radar and told the ramipril (bp med) should helps with the fluid retention (spoiler - hasn't yet).
Needless to say I walked out of there fuming at the complete lack of empathy and information given and how I was given my diagnosis.

I had to go back to the nurse 2 weeks later for bp and diabetes check so I booked that and waited. Was called in a week early and thankfully it was the nurse who called so I asked if she could book a longer appointment as I had a million and one questions about how to deal with it all.

She was more informative and at least gave me more info like how much carbs in a day to limit to (as in portions not amount of carbs in a measurement) and also a weekly limit on pastas and rice etc. Also mentioned about sugar free all the way. Printed me out a bunch of leaflets and gave me some booklets.
I asked about blood results but cant remember the numbers but my bloods showed double the levels of what I need to be to be classed as non diabetic.

At no point did she suggest trying to use diet alone to control it or go much more into it like suggest a safe diet plan that would work better than weight watchers (old weight watchers plan I have an app for and used before).

BP exactly the same as it was too so giving meds another 2 week and will adjust as needed).
(in a weeks time at time of posting).

So since everything started, I have stuck to my weight watchers plan (with lots of ups and downs as the fluid is still there) but have stuck to the limit of carbs set for me by the nurse (usually under that) but I am struggling to use points and have no clue now what I am doing is healthy and safe.
I am confidant I could manage something more restrictive and faster acting to tackle my weight to benefit both my BP and T2.

I would like to give the nurse some diet plans/options and get approval before starting anything and ask about monitoring both bp and T2 more if I end up doing VLCD/keto ish so the medications don't over compensate and they both go too low.

There are so many places doing diets that claim to be "proven" and "safe" but its hard to weed out the ones that are after your wallet and wont cause more problems than I started with.

So I'm basically asking for suggestions:
safe plans that are easy to follow and involve food and not meal replacements
tips other than (blanket statement of) cut carbs and sugar
foods to replace carbs to bulk out meals
foods that are low in sugar and carbs that are great for when it is busy and what looks like its good but is terrible
anything else that helped you navigate the early days when you are a bit bewildered by all of the info thrown at you.
also do you self test out of your own pocket and if you do, does your health team also know?

Thanks in advance, sorry was such an essay of a post
 
Unfortunately many GPs and nurses haven't caught up yet on the research. T2s can't cope with carbs. Many of us now avoid rice, pasta, ordinary bread, high sugar fruits etc. The 'Eatwell Plate' is a disaster for us.
Look at Dr Unwin's infographics for a simple introduction: https://phcuk.org/sugar/
 

Hi and welcome to the forums.

It would be interesting to take a step back and ask what this 'carb limit' is that you say has been set for you. (If you're willing to give out this info).

Bread, pasta, potato and rice are the main enemies of T2 but as @TriciaWs has pointed out above, there are some surprise foods to avoid. Some fruits have a high carb content and honey is basically liquid sugar for example.

Many T2's in this forum (@JoKalsbeek @bulkbiker to name but 2) are advocates of a low carb diet - lower than the NHS Eatwell Plate would suggest is good.

I am sure that some T2 forum members will be along to help out a bit later so good luck on your new journey!
 
Hi @GLL
I gave a like because it is frankly rude not to when someone takes the trouble to "open themselves up" as you have. Expect to be told weight watchers isn't the way to go and that most or all of the Dr's/Nurse's advice is wrong. I'm not saying it is just expect that. Also expect your journey with managing T2 to be troubled at times despite what people say. Above all, expect to find help and support here from people who can "walk the walk" - not me - I'm clueless - but many others. Welcome and best wishes.
 
Reactions: GLL
GLL said:
doing VLCD/keto ish so the medications don't over compensate and they both go too low.
Click to expand...

GLL said:
safe plans that are easy to follow and involve food
Click to expand...

Meat, fish, eggs, above ground veg and dairy if you like it.
Base your meals around those and you won't go far wrong.

Stodge and sugar, root veg and sweet fruit should be ditched immediately.
Some berries (smothered in double cream) should be ok for a "sweet treat".

If you are only taking metformin you should be ok and won't go "too low" although personally mine went into the bin after 3 weeks and I relied on diet only.

Depending on how up to speed your nurse and doctor are they might approve or throw up their hands in horror at this advice.

However many here have done exactly this and put their T2 into remission.

For low carb/ keto diets one of the best resources is www.dietdoctor.com
lots of free stuff (you don;t need to join up to get most of the benefits).

Watch out for blood pressure dropping as your blood sugars come down. I refused meds for it.
 
@GLL hello and welcome to a brilliant, informative forum. Have you been to the ‘newly diagnosed’ forum accessed from the forums page? There is such a lot of useful information there. Many of us follow a low carb or keto diet to control our blood sugar. After being diagnosed I found myself doing a lot of reading and then had to change my ideas of meals eg yes eat roast meat but that doesn’t mean you need to eat roast potatoes and Yorkshire puddings. The diet doctor website is excellent for providing information and recipes too. You asked about blood sugar monitors. The majority of us type2s self fund our monitors and test strips/ cartridges. These are a necessity if you are to find which foods you are fine with and which send your bs sky high. You will find there two threads for monitoring your morning blood sugar reading. One is chatty and the other a low chat. I hope this is useful. Good luck on your journey
 
Hello and welcome. Yes, get a meter and test before and two hours after meals. That shows what the food (ie the carbohydrate) you take in does to your blood glucose levels. High blood glucose levels cause various types of damage. What is "high" will vary from person to person - in my case "high" seems to be comparatively low. This link might help - early days stuff:
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog/kennya.517579/

I am one of those who went and stayed keto/very low carb. This means about 20g carbs a day, which I get mainly from vegetables. It works for me and I found it easier to eat no potatoes rather than a little bit of potatoes. Other things I avoid include most root vegetables, bread, rice, pasta, sugar, pastry. and most fruit. I do base my meals around meat and dairy (mainly cheeses), eggs, most nuts, and some legumes (they don't have that big an impact on me, you may be different). I don't use any processed foods - tinned or frozen veg but nothing "ready-prepared". Carbs are hidden in many things - examples - I picked up a Finnebrogue product that claimed to be wagyu burgers: it turned out to be mainly not wagyu beef and to have a huge amount of rusk filler in it. One burger was more carbs than I normally eat in a day. Cooked chicken often has sugar added to make the skin look appealing. You need to read the labels on everything.

I buy fresh and cook from there. A four-egg omelette with salami and cheese takes about five minutes to make start to finish. I found fairly quickly that I didn't want carbs the way I used to and the health impact was enormous. I was back at normal blood glucose in under four months and my other symptoms have largely cleared up - incidentally, I also had lower leg oedema and that has gone with better BGs.

This forum has been 98% of the help I received since diagnosis, My GP surgery will monitor me but nothing else. I had some excellent advice from a dietician - basically the "cut carbs" line you'll get from many people here. Best of luck and keep asking questions if something doesn't make sense.
 
Thank you so much for the warm welcome and responses.

the carb limit I was told to stick to (by the practice nurse) was:
no more than 2 slices of (brown) bread in a day
up to 3 baby potatoes or a small ish regular one, boiled or baked.
limit rice and pasta to once a week (wholemeal) (unclear if she meant choose one once a week or one of each once a week)
Porridge oats are fine for brekkie as is a couple of shredded wheat / weetabix.
Low fat/lean everything. (one of the links she gave me had a lot of branded low fat foods compared to each other showing sugar in each so I could choose the right low fat things)

As she was telling me this, I already knew carbs are the enemy here so why is she telling me it is okay to have them. Maybe it is the approach for people who are less compliant and its a best of both worlds? but I went in saying I am willing to do drastic measures to bring it all under control. Missed opportunity on their part for sure.

Keto will probably be the route I take and see how I get on. For the most part, I am already batch cooking/freezing from scratch so I can be in control of what I eat
I love cheese/dairy, love eggs and some fish and with veg, I'm super fussy but there are enough options of things I like to bulk out meals. Basic salad stuff, also fine with! I'm a fan of making soups too and using them to fill in gaps.
Will stay on weight watchers until I make the switch and keep dropping the obvious carbs (already happening). Just need to wrap my head around it all and come up with meal plans of things I will realistically want to cook.

Will pick up a blood monitor and a BP cuff to keep tabs on both

I do want to try and work with and not against my GP practice, at least the nurse I have seen is keen to get me healthy and to investigate everything. Just hoping nothing else pops up to complicate it more haha.

Will post back again when I have had a good rummage around the links and had time to think so more, but again, thank you for responses, really felt like I'm stumbling in the dark this past few weeks.

Oh for all you keto-ers, any apps to track stuff that you would recommend? (android)
 

There's lesson one: the NHS will often tell you to eat the things that do you no good. I'd disagree with everything the nurse recommended, but she is giving you the official line. You won't have to battle the nurse - when you rock up with reduced BGs for your review there will be nothing she can say.

I don't know about any keto apps - starting out, I used diet doctor to get an idea of carb levels in various foods.
 
In common with a few others I use the app shown in the attachment (on Android) which also tracks nutes and vits but there are so many available. As for the nurse, again, many just do this in their presence then carry on as normal at home. Personally, I've not seen one since Dec 2019.
 

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Hi. The fact that your nurse told you to have low-fat food and two Weetabix etc for breakfast shows she hasn't a clue about diet. Don't rely on your surgery for diet advice anyway. Also don't rely on brand-name diet companies. They want to make money, retain you as a customer and will almost certainly recommend too many carbs and low-fat. You simply need to set yourself a daily limit of carbs. I would suggest you start with 150gm/day and less if you can manage it. You only need to manage the total amount; it doesn't matter what those carby foods are. Have fats and proteins to balance the carbs and to keep you feeling full. Look at the back of food packaging for Total carbs or look at the various websites that show the carb content of popular foods. If you do have water retention I would ask the GP what the causes might be rather than just relying on Ramipril to clear it. In summary forget 'diets and just adjust your eating pattern to limit carbs but not other foods as a lifestyle for life.
 
Hi @GLL, all I would add is don't forget it is YOU who makes the decisions for YOU and the Nurse/GP fits in with that, not the other way round. That doesn't mean you shouldn't maintain a cordial relationship with them, at the end of the day I am sure they want you to be well. However, when you have done your research and have decided to adopt a certain approach, whether they approve or not, whether it's the opposite of their advice or not, whether it even works or not (and it will!), it is YOUR body, your health, your decision. Never be bullied into doing something, a good medical team will assist you no matter how you've decided to tackle it.
 
Again, thankful blown away by the absolute legends that you are with all the help and support here

BP was 150/98 ish I think.
ECG on tuesday and bp review friday.

Should be ordering the BP and blood monitor today/tomorrow so I can keep tabs on myself properly. Will take the bp cuff with me to the nurse next week to make sure we get similar results.

Made a few decisions on diet.
I've lost 24lb out of a realistic goal of 60-75lb on weight watchers since august but obviously eating habits need to drastically change since diagnosis so the plan is:
newcastle diet (shakes and veg) for however long I can stick it / 12 weeks
transition into keto diet to loose the rest and maintain.

I am excited to get to keto plan and have found a ton of stuff I would eat but I need to carefully stock the cupboards somewhat with ingredients and get some kitchen equipment sorted.
Doing shakes until after xmas should let me save on shopping budget (hurrah for tesco shakes being on the allowed list at under £5 for 10 packs) and grab some keto bits each week so I am geared up and ready to succeed long term.
Not exactly what I wanted to do but I know if I have the right food and tools available from the get go, I can to stick with it.
Will start on shakes at some point in the week.

Also gives me time to just settle into it all. Still fairly overwhelmed but slowly getting to grips with it all.
 
@GLL Hi and a belated welcome.
What you decide to do is completely up to you and nobody (either your healthcare professionals or us in here can tell you what you should do).
Having said that here are my views on a few things you raised:
1. Diabetes is a lifelong thing (even for those in remission i.e. with normal BG levels such as myself).
2. Weight Loss clubs and low calorie diets fail (in the medium to longer term) for the majority of participants. The main reasons for this are twofold: A). They rely on will power and will power eventually runs out unless you are super human. B). The effect of a Very Low Calorie diet is to slow down your resting metabolism. This is just the opposite of what you want, since that means you burn less energy while at rest. You also don't think as sharp (brain is big user of energy), you feel colder, have less energy etc. This also means that any small increase in calories which wouldn't have previously mattered will now cause noticeable weight gain!
3. I personally used a moderately extreme method (something sustainable for me for the rest of my life). There are a few who claim it is possible to beat T2 diabetes with one hard push and then go back to completely normal. I suspect there are many more who used to think that before they discovered their mistake. So I went low carb, but not quite Keto, I increased both the protein and the (traditional ) fat I ate. I deliberately didn't reduce the calories I consumed nor increase the time spent exercising. But the effect of becoming fat adapted (able to switch between burning fat or carbs at any time) meant that I was never really hungry (I didn't smack) and I had plenty of energy and so was able to walk faster and further during my designated 30min sessions.
I used a Blood Glucose monitor to test the effect of my meals and learn how much of which veg and fruit I could safely eat.
4. A welcome not of caution. - How's that for a paradox! A low carb way of eating will reduce water retention and any overly high Blood Pressure quite quickly ( as Dr David Unwin GP) found when he tried it - so be prepare to ditch the BP and water retention medication if you start feeling faint!
5. Many people want to stick to low fat because thy think this is best for the heart. Strangely heart disease was lower back when the general population ate more fat. People also think that LDL cholesterol is bad for use ( despite the fact that all cells are wrapped in cholesterol, the brain is mostly fats, sex hormones depend on their being LDL and the immune system also relies on LDL. In other words if you had no LDL cholesterol you would be dead!
5. Taking a more complex view of my Cholesterol figures, since I went Low Carb my figures are much better than beforehand- so my risk level has reduced despite having previously had a 3x Coronary Bypass and despite my LDL now being higher than before because my HDL is much higher and my Triglycerides are much lower which indicate my cholesterol system is functioning better.
 
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