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Newcastle comes to Oldham

I know my regime is different to yours Andrew but I am very low carbing and although my breakfast should be the lowest +2 readings of the day ( 1 duck egg boiled or dry fried every day) I consistently get a higher reading in the high 5/6 no matter low my fasting figure tested. There is usually a couple of hours between my Fasting test and my having breakfast and so I suspect, in my case, that I am getting some form of liver dump.
 

I've amended my previous post to suggest what I think might be happening. I've always (at least for as long as I've tested) had Dawn Phenomenon, so I'm especially pleased that the fasting reading has come down. It is now similar to or lower than my bedtime reading on most days. My breakfast+2 has always been the highest reading of the day and my bedtime reading the lowest (low to mid-5s, some 4s).

I'm not especially worried about the breakfast+2. At least its a reasonably "safe" level. I think it'll come down if I persist with the diet - but it could take some weeks.

Andrew
 
I really can't help with breakfast readings as I can't manage breakfast. Perhaps it might be worth looking at people who have done the ND before and posted results. Patch was one and so was Bowell (Sp). You might be able to compare their figures, and then have a better idea?
 

I've just checked BG again (4pm, lets call it pre-meal) and 'twas 4.7 which is fine, methinks. Mind you, I have just cut the rear lawn, which took nearly an hour.

Had a look at Patch and Bowell threads - nothing in there that makes me worry. I was diagnosed in 2005, so maybe it'll just take me a little longer to get to low 5s at meal+2hrs. I won't lose any sleep.

Andrew
 

I am just about to post my day's results now. If you look you will see what happens with exercise. I have really hammered my body today, more than ever, my results prove what exercise does, as does your cutting the lawn. I am now 200% we MUST include good levels of exercise. I am bushed!
 
Defren said:
I am now 200% we MUST include good levels of exercise.
Click to expand...

Additional exercise was NOT included as part of the Newcastle study - largely, I suppose, because it would have made it impossible to tell whether reductions in blood glucose levels were caused by improvements in peripheral insulin sensivity due to the exercise or by the dieting.

I agree that exercise has to be a good thing. In the long term, it should improve peripheral insulin sensitivity. In the short term, it can either temporarily reduce blood glucose or if you do too much and have a liver dump, increase it. Personally, I try to get out walking most days.

Andrew
 

I am re-enforcing the view that Geordie has, if you want lower BG then you have to work for it. I want the lower BG's the weight loss is just an added bonus for me.

My exercise is walking on a treadmill, yesterday, I upped the speed quite a bit and made sure I worked hard. I agree, work too hard, and you will face a liver dump, however my level of fitness, and therefore my working hard, whilst pushing my body into unknown territory is likely to be comparable to a warm up or less to a seasoned exerciser.
 
I have two bicycles - but I live near the top of a hill. It's downhill to everywhere from home, but uphill on the way back - not ideal. I think I'll stick to the odd session on a rowing machine, walking and grass shortening. Maybe I should take up golf or start playing table tennis again.

Andrew
 
I've been having a bit of a ponder today about what my real objectives are for this diet. My conclusions are (in no particular order) .... by my next blood test in early July ......

* HBA1C to be under 6 (6.8 last time)
* No Dawn Phenomenon
* Stay off diabetes meds
* On a sustainable diet - Atkins (Phase 2 after 2 weeks of induction)
* Weight to be under 14st 7lb (presently 15st 10lb)

Or something like that.

Andrew
 
Day 16: FBG 5.5, breakfast+2 6.7

FBG is lower than 5.6 bedtime reading, so no Dawn Phenomenon. breakfast+2 is down from 7.9 on Sun and 7.7 on Sat. No medication since April Fool's Day. No change in diet - Tesco shakes made with unsweetened soya milk, 200g green veg.

Steady progress. BGs are fine for this stage of the diet.

Andrew
 
Day 17: FBG 6.0, breakfast+2 7.1
Day 18: FBG 6.2, breakfast+2 6.9, lunch+2 6.2

I've bought a handful of Atkins Advantage readymade shakes (Tesco) and ordered a couple of tubs of Atkins Advantage shake powder (Amazon - cheaper in Boots, I discovered just after placing the order). These are very low carb and hopefully will help me punch my way through a bit of a plateau - both in measured BGs and in weight loss. (defren - where's the cheapest place to buy these??)

We're towing our caravan up to north west Scotland (Loch Sunart) for a couple of weeks in the sunshine(??) soon - and I need to decide what diet shakes to take with me. The Atkins shakes have two big advantages - they are very low carb - and I don't need soya milk to mix with them. I tried a readymade coffee flavoured Atkins shake at lunchtime today - distinctly thin and watery compared Tesco shakes, though the taste isn't at all bad.

I need to make a decision in the next few days ........... ponder ...........

Andrew
 

The cheapest place I have found for the Atkins shake powder is Boots. My first I got from the LCM, but now I order them from Boots, couple of days and they are here. I always keep this weeks on the counter, next weeks in the cupboard and the following weeks on order. It means I have plenty of time, should Boots be out of stock.
 
Day 19: FBG 5.8, breakfast+2 7.2, weight 15st 10lb (100kg exactly)

The after meal reading is still higher than I would like. The breakfast+2 readings are clearly trending downwards but at the current rate of progress, it'll take another 2 weeks to get below 6.0.

Had an Atkins Strawberry Yoghurt shake for breakfast. Not bad. I think I'll continue with Atkins stuff at least until Week 6. From then onwards, I *think* I might migrate back onto Tesco shakes made with soya milk. This equates to around 50gm of carbs per day. If BGs are still maintained at target levels, it could make a transition back onto a normal (but low carb) diet more successful.

Andrew
 
Day 19: bedtime 4.7
Day 20: FBG 5.2, breakfast+2 6.7, weight 15st 9lb (99.5kg)

All the numbers are trending down nicely. At current rate of progress, the important breakfast+2 reading should be under 6 by about day 35. I'll be well pleased if it is. I must start to get more exercise on a regular basis. I've been a bit idle recently - so I'll go for a decent walk later this morning and try out the new (to me) camera lens I bought on Fleabay yesterday

Andrew
 
Here endeth Week 3. I must avoid temptation - succumbing to the odd raid on the fridge is all too easy!!!

Day 21: FBG 5.8, breakfast+2.5 6.1, lunch+2 5.4 (edited at 2.50pm)

The fasting figure is OK and the post breakfast figure continues to fall which is brilliant. I'm now on the Atkins shakes - and they are ........ OK, I suppose. By comparison, the Tesco shakes made with soya milk are well into cordon bleu trerritory.

I thought I'd present the numbers in a slightly different format - single readings are inevitably a bit variable, we aren't machines after all. Those below are AVERAGEs over the week:

WEEK 1: FBG 6.4, breakfast+2 8.3
WEEK 2: FBG 5.6, breakfast+2 7.8
WEEK 3: FBG 5.7, breakfast+2 6.9

The Week 3 fasting figure is exactly the same as that for the diabetic Newcastle study group at week 4 and also at week 8, which is fine. I'm very pleased with the progress with breakfast+2 readings. I could, of course, have managed lower figures than these by increasing the amount of exercise that I am doing substantially - but for the duration of the diet, I don't plan to do that (though I may do later). The changes that I can see in my blood glucose readings reflect real changes in my glucose metabolism (which hopefully are permanent) that would have been masked if I had changed my exercise regime.

I think it's going OK. The biggest issue at the moment is temptation to cheat - especially as my daughter, Sarah, is having a 40th birthday party this weekend. Avoiding falling off the wagon for the evening might be a challenge.

Andrew
 
After dinner tonight (some green veg and an Atkins Advantage shake), I spent some time preparing food for Sarah's party tomorrow. In the process, I ate some cheese, a bit of gammon, some rice (quite a bit) and some After Eight mints. I really need drawing and quartering for that.

About an hour after the rice, I checked my BG level and it was 8.4, which was not that bad in the circumstances. So, I decided to allocate myself some penance - a dose of HIIT on the rowing machine. Needless to say, I feel a little bit slaughtered. I have, though, just checked my BG again - 4.6 - a fall of 3.8 mmol/l in about 20 minutes!! Amazing!!

Andrew
 
After eating rather more than just a bit of cheese and a little gammon at Sarah's 40th party on Sunday (think iced birthday cake!!!), I've been chasing the wagon for the last few days. I've just gone (slightly) back into ketosis - so the wagon is pretty much within an arms length now. The reading this evening at dinner+2 (and after a rowing session) was 5.6 - so not far off. With any luck, the next fasting reading will be sub-6 for the first time this week.

I'm going on holiday in NW Scotland for a couple of weeks starting on Wednesday and have been doing a bit of head scratching about how to maintain the diet. Atkins Advantage shake mix tubs seem pretty much unobtainable locally, so I *think* I'm going to have to go back onto Tesco shakes + unsweetened soya milk for a while. With the added green veg, that'll pan out at around 50g of carbs per day - a bit higher than I would like, but if I can keep my BGs down where I want them then at least I know I'll not have any problem moving onto the Atkins induction phase at the end of the 8 weeks,

Andrew
 
Day 26: FBG 6.8, breakfast+2 6.5, pre-lunch 5.9, lunch +2 5.8, pre-dinner 5.9, dinner+2 5.8

I'm not happy with the fasting reading, but the rest are not bad at all. Hopefully, the FBG will be under 6 in the next day or two. I went back to using Tesco shakes made with unsweetened soya milk today (about 50g carbs per day including 200g green veg). Even though the Atkins Advantage shakes are lower carb, I can't see any real "advantage" in using them. They don't seem to have a positive effect on BGs (compared with Tesco), don't taste so great, are more than three times the price of the Tesco shakes and availability is a bit thin (Boots are out of stock online and don't stock them locally anyway). I also feel hungry quite soon after an Atkins shake, but the Tesco ones are OK for several hours - so less temptation to cheat.

I *think* I've managed to scramble back onto the wagon. I'm away on holiday from Weds next week - and I'm taking several tins of Tesco shake mix with me, which I plan to have for breakfast and evening dinner. At lunchtime, we generally have a picnic anyway - usually salad & cooked meat of some kind (chicken or whatever) - which can substitute for both the lunchtime shake and the daily green veg quota.

It will be Day 48 by the time I get back, so theoretically only a little over a week to go from then. It's possible that I might extend it by a week or two - must ponder about that.

Andrew
 
I am now exactly half-way through the 8 weeks of this diet. I am feeling fine - a bit consitpated, but that's expected. I am finding it very difficult to avoid cheating (a little), especially in the evening. It's quite a while between dinner at 5 or 6pm and bedtime and snacking is a temptation.

After falling off the wagon last week (Sarah's 40th birthday), this week hasn't been quite as productive as I'd hoped it would be. Even so, unless I cheat to some considerable degree, pre-lunch readings and later (lunch+2, pre-dinner, dinner+2 and bedtime) are all in the 5s. It's only really the fasting reading (6s) and breakfast+2 readings (6.5-7.5) that are at all worriesome.

I'm going on holiday in our touring caravan for 2 weeks starting Wednesday to north west Scotland - Resipole Farm on Loch Sunart. They do have wifi there, so I should be able to continue updating this thread. I'm going to take several tubs of Tesco meal replacement shakes and have those for breakfast and evening meal. Lunch will usually be a low-calorie (around 200), low carb salad of some kind - chicken or whatever. We're going fishing occasionally, so fresh mackerel will be an option on some days too.

I see no real reason why the diet should be any less effective on holiday than at home - assuming, of course, that I can avoid the chip shop in Acharacle (and Bells chicken curry pies, which I love!!)

Andrew
 
For dinner around 6pm, I had a Tesco shake and maybe 100g of green veg - plus a couple of slices of roast bacon loin that Mary & Sarah were having with their dinner. I also had a couple of glasses of Cava too (mea culpa - several times!). I checked my blood sugar around 8.45pm - what do you think? 8, 7, 6 ??? Nope - 3.3 (Didn't believe the reading, so I re-checked - also 3.3!!!!!)

I thought I was starting to understand all this - clearly I am mistaken!

Andrew
 
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